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HA_DC9
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CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:47 am

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Jan/06/br/br04p.html

This looks like further evidence/support to keep Midway open. At least the passengers got a guided tour of the island  Smile
 
GLAguy
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:55 am

That makes two 777's today that have made emergency landings due to engine problems. What's the odds on that?
 
scottysair
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:57 am

That is very lucky one of CO make emergency landing in Midwy Islands and those are doing fine and no one of the injuries nito their plane either.
 
artsyman
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:58 am

Ok, here is the data. The flight left NRT 6 minutes early at 4.59pm, and landed in Midway at 2.53am. It is estimated to leave Midway at 9.20pm tonight (14hours and 20 min late). I know a few of the crew quite well, so I will get a good update when they return.

Always good to keep Midway open, although open or closed, if you needed to get the plane on the ground no matter what, you would land there and them figure it out rather than ditching in the sea.

DIVERTED TO MIDWAY ISLAND DUE TO MX

Jeremt
 
commander_rabb
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:00 am

Once again Midway proves that it is a valuable piece of real estate in the Pacific. Boeing no longer is the facilities operator for Midway and it's administration now falls under the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, which operates the Midway Atoll National Wildlife Refuge.
 
sprxflySWA
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:00 am

It looks as the odds are 100%  Big grin
Anyway, I'll bet the pax got bored fairly quickly, unless there were some WWII vets or historical fans onboard.
 
neilalp
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:07 am

I wonder if there was an outing to the beach! Got to be atleast one good beach on the island.
 
Sjoerd
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:07 am

4 for long haul...

Does an aircraft with 4 engines have to land, when one engine fails ?
Flanders + Wallonnia + Brussels = the UNITED STATES of BELGIUM
 
artsyman
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:08 am

If it matters to anyone, it was Ship 4.

Jeremy
 
jcs17
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:16 am

That actually sounds pretty fun, once you landed and the initial fear was gone. Not very many people these days can claim a trip to the Midways.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
artsyman
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:27 am

As I sad before, I know a few of the crew quite well, and oddly enough, most of them are the type that would love this sort of adventure... once safely on the ground (as JCS mentioned)

J
 
prosa
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:31 am

"The passengers were deplaned, and they can be entertained by a million and a half seabirds," said Barbara Maxfield, speaking for the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, which operates the Midway Atoll National Wildlife Refuge.

Heck, who needs IFE?  Smokin cool

"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
jumbojet
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:14 pm

any word on co flight #6? Did it depart Midway Island as scheduled?

I was wondering, what if this scenario were to take place. After the mechanics trouble shoot the airplane and the alleged cause of the problem was still not fixed, then what? You still have 200 + passengers stuck over there. At what point does co or any other airline make the decision to fly in alternative aircraft to get the passengers and crew back home?
 
MarcoPolo747
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:17 pm


Does CO use P&W or GE on their 777s ?
 
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STT757
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:21 pm

CO 777s use the GE90 engine..

I would love to go to Midway because Im a history buff, especially WWII.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
jumbojet
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:22 pm

GE90's. If you look at any of airliners pics of CO B777's, you might be able to see the GE90 logo on the engine.
 
Bluewave 707
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Islan

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:22 pm

CO uses GE90-92B's on their 777-224s.

Thank God everyone is safe.

[Edited 2004-01-07 04:24:20]
"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
 
raggi
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:33 pm

Bluewave 707, CO 777s are actually powered by GE90-90Bs...



raggi
Stick & Rudder
 
dtwclipper
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:51 pm

WOW! Once we were on the ground, I would have loved that kind of delay. How else could I visit Midway and see if there are any remnants of the PAA Hotel there, or just to see where it stood. That would be way too cool
Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
AA737-823
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:27 pm

to answer someone's question, yes, an airplane with four engines will land as soon as practical if one fails, for whatever reason. Logic behind that is that you just can't be sure why one failed- if it's fuel delivery, the other three might soon be affected. So, safest bet is to get her on the ground.

R
 
jhooper
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:16 pm

to answer someone's question, yes, an airplane with four engines will land as soon as practical if one fails, for whatever reason



Section 91.7: Civil aircraft airworthiness.
(a) No person may operate a civil aircraft unless it is in an airworthy condition.

(b) The pilot in command of a civil aircraft is responsible for determining whether that aircraft is in condition for safe flight. The pilot in command shall discontinue the flight when unairworthy mechanical, electrical, or structural conditions occur.

Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
 
N79969
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 2:31 pm

AA737-823 and Jhooper,

On a three/four-engine airplane, a single-engine failure (assuming it is not a fire) does not always mean the airplane has to divert. I am very certain that is the case in the US. In some cases, continuing to the destination may be the best course of action.

On a two-engine airplane, they have to divert if they shutdown one of the engines.

I hope 747skipper or one of the other pilots chimes in on this board to clarify this point.
 
Bellerophon
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RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:26 pm

Sjoerd

…Does an aircraft with 4 engines have to land, when one engine fails ?…

In most cases of a single engine failure on a four-engined jet, in the absence of any indications of a fire, the flight will continue on towards destination and the aircraft will not land at the nearest airport. The passengers may well not know that an engine has been shut down unless the crew elect to tell them.

In general terms, prior to making the decision to continue towards destination, the main items the Captain will check are:

  • That sufficient fuel is on board to continue towards destination, at the increased fuel consumption and lower cruise level of a three engine cruise.


  • That a suitable airfield will always within range of the aircraft's intended route for an immediate landing should a second engine fail.


  • That the aircraft will be able to clear any high ground on its intended route should a second engine fail.


  • That there is no reason to suspect that the reason the first engine failed might also affect the remaining engines.


  • The weather and route will of course play a large part in the Captain’s decision. It will be a harder decision for a B747 Captain who is flying over the Pacific in poor weather than for one who is flying over Europe in good weather.

    If the fuel situation does not permit continued flight to destination, then at least a landing can be made at a convenient airfield, close to destination where good engineering, passenger handling and company facilities exist.

    A B747-400, on a SIN-LHR flight, lost an engine on take-off at SIN some years ago. After checking all the above points the Captain decided the flight could safely continue towards LHR.

    Fuel checks revealed that whilst LHR would be out of reach on three engines, Helsinki could safely be reached with full fuel reserves remaining, so the flight continued Westbound towards HEL.

    During the nine hours it took to arrive at HEL, the company concerned had arranged for a spare aircraft to fly to HEL and by the time the first aircraft landed, was ready and waiting to take the passengers on the last leg of their journey to LHR with only minimal delay.

    Regards

    Bellerophon
     
    jumbojet
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:36 pm

    Interesting Bellerophon

    I just love hearing those words, 'spare aircraft'!! I guess that most likely means juggling aircraft around? I cant imagine there being to many spare 747's around!?

    Also, I was wondering, I had asked this a while ago with no response, just gonna ask one more time. Here goes.

    what if this scenario were to take place. After the mechanics trouble shoot the airplane (CO B777 at Midway Island) and the alleged cause of the problem was still not fixed, then what? You still have 200 + passengers stuck over there. At what point does co or any other airline make the decision to fly in alternative aircraft to a remote location to get the passengers and crew back home?
     
    lyzzard
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:37 pm

    Would've been nice if any of the pax could snap a pic or two of the airplane. This is the only shot of an a/c at Midway on Anet.


    View Large View Medium
    Click here for bigger photo!

    Photo © Keoki Stender

     
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    Bruce
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:48 pm

    Is there even an airport on Midway Island??? do they get any other regular scheduled traffic?

    bruce
    Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
     
    Jet-A gasguy
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Wed Jan 07, 2004 6:55 pm

    Two CO mechanics just left out of HNL in a chartered Learjet at 1700 Local. Hopefully they'll be able to fix the problem and get that aircraft under way.

    J-AGG
    Find a job you love, and you'll never work a day in your life.
     
    TexAussie
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:58 pm

    Midway seems a little south along the Pacific tracks. I would have thought the ETOPS routes would have been higher, along the Baring Straights.

    I have done the US - Narita runs a number of times (granted, on 747s) and we always followed the coast up near Alaska and down across eastern Russia.

    Would have also thought the eastbound 777 would have cuaght the Pacific jet stream over the North Pacific... it's ripping fast this time of year.

    Maybe the little chains of islands throughout the middle Pacific provide adequte ETOPs options along a more southern track to Houston. Interesting.

    Glad they're all OK and enjoying a good time on a nice island... they'll come back with a great story! Nice of Continental to take care of everyone with tours and more supplies; I know a few carriers who would say, "Stay in your seats... we'll be underway in just another 5 minutes (to be repeated every fifteen mintues for two days)".
     
    dtwclipper
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:41 pm

    Are they still stuck on Midway?
    Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
     
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    tjwgrr
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:46 pm

    I checked Great Circle Mapper for the NRT-IAH flight with both the 207 minute and 180 minute ETOPS rules applied. Midway seems way out of route- quite far south of the intended route. Midway must have been the closest available alternate. Although the Aleutians appear closer to the intended route, I'm sure there is no available alternate there.... especially this time of year.... brrrrr.....
    Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
     
    Dasheighty
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:53 pm

    Midway island

    Is it manned is there a tower? A phone?
     
    lxlgu
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:14 am

    Flight took off 0242 from Midway and ETA IAH 1513-25 hours late

    Cheers!
    Tony
     
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    tjwgrr
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:17 am

    Must be repaired.... flight plan filed:

    ---------------------------------------------------
    Information as of 1511Z
    FlightID: COA6A (Commercial, Jet)
    Status: FILED flight plan on the 07th at 1434Z.
    Company: CONTINENTAL AIR LINES INC.
    Country: UNITED STATES
    Radio Call: CONTINENTAL
    Ground Spd: 0 kts (Assigned: M085)
    Altitude: 0(hundreds of feet) (Assigned: 290)
    Type: ((Unknown Type))
    Origin Apt: PMDY MIDWAY ATOLL
    Dest Apt: IAH GEORGE BUSH INTERCONTINENTAL ARPT/HOUSTON
    Departed: Z ETA As Filed: (unspecified)
    Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
     
    jumbojet
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:02 am

    I propose a question. I asked this question on the Cont 777 engine failure thread and have not received a resonse, so here goes.

    What happens when a B777 or similar sized plane makes an unscheduled/emergency landing due to engine failure, and
    the airport/facility where the plane lands is in an extremely
    remote place, and the route is a fairly long one, like NRT to IAH,
    as in CO flight #6 landing at midway. Now lets say that the
    mechanics flown into repair the bird with the spare
    parts are unable to repair the problem for whatever reason. At what
    point does the airline decide to fly in additonal planes to get the
    passenger and crew out of such a remote place? It appears as
    if CO flight #6 was delayed at Midway for 24 hours? What if the
    repairs couldnt be made? Are the passengers then going to have
    to wait, conceivably another 24 hours before additional parts and
    mechanics are flown in?
     
    BeltwayBandit
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:09 am

    Two 777 engines fail on one day. Now, what are the odds that those failures happen on a single 777?

    To further the question, we know a two-engine-out 777 is a bad glider. How much better is a two-engine out A340? or 747?
     
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    tjwgrr
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:10 am

    UAL is flying a 777 from JFK to KEF as of this writing to pick up stranded passengers.

    I'm sure CO would have dispatched an aircraft to pick up their pax on Midway if the mechanics determined the a/c needed more extensive repairs requiring additional time.....
    Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
     
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    tjwgrr
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:16 am

    "To further the question, we know a two-engine-out 777 is a bad glider. How much better is a two-engine out A340? or 747?"
    -----------------------------------

    The first generation A340 struggles to fly with four operating engines. Smile/happy/getting dizzy I'd hate to think of one with two engines out.......

    [Edited 2004-01-07 17:18:42]
    Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
     
    mlsrar
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:26 am

    Is it manned is there a tower? A phone?

    Yes...there is a whole DSN circuit tied to the transpac fiber net! (Sarcasm in there as it's about the equivalent of a T1...for the whole islands communicaitons needs.)
    I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
     
    latinaviation
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:52 am

    Here is info on the airport:
    http://www.midwayisland.com/handbookframe.html

    and on Midway Island general management:
    http://www.midwayisland.com/
     
    Thrust
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Islan

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:16 am

    A four engined jetliner like the Boeing 747 can still fly easily with just one jet engine. The four-engined piston propliners like the Boeing 377 Stratocruiser logged more flying time on three engines than four. Certainly, having an engine off will lower the cruising speed and the aircraft probably won't be able to fly as high either, but one engine normally should not pose as a huge danger to a four engined jetliner, because you will still have engines running on both wings. Still, any engine failure to me on any aircraft is an uncomfortable thought. It certainly inhibits the aircraft's performance and safety.
    Fly one thing; Fly it well
     
    prebennorholm
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:18 am

    A 747 or 340 with three engines shut down would be pretty scary at MTOW. But after dumping fuel they would do quite nicely.

    They won't make a go around on landing, they must land first time.

    It wouldn't take much mountains, however, to put them in a trap.

    Remember that at cruising altitude max engine thrust is reduced to roughly one fouth of take-off thrust at sea level. Because of the thinner air. So when you can cruise at FL300 at MTOW, then you can also cruise at low level on one engine.

    Dumping fuel to way below MTOW will easily compensate for the extra drag of the inop engines and make it cruise at several thousand feet.

    A full or empty pax load doesn't really matter much. For instance on an Airbus 340-300 a typical max pax load including baggage would be around 60,000 lbs while max fuel load is 250,000 lbs. Which is almost as much as the empty weight 287,000 lbs.

    The power to weight ratio of the same 343 with almost empty tanks and a full pax load is almost exactly 10. In clean configuration and all engines running the lift to drag ratio is around 20. The latter will drop to some 13 or 15 from the drag of three inop engines depending on inner or outer engine still operational. So at sea level it will have 30 - 50% more power than needed for level cruise.

    But with flaps and gear down, then you are committed to land. There is no second attempt.

    Kind regards, Preben Norholm
    Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
     
    ha763
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:37 am

    As for diverting due to engine trouble on a 3 or 4 engined aircraft, I can tell you that I know one US airline will most likely divert instead of continuing. I've known them to turn around their DC-10s due to engine trouble when they have been 2+ hours into the flight. I also recall reading in their DC-10 manuals that it is preferred that they divert instead of continuing.

    As for the CO flight, if the mechanics were unable to repair the problem, they most likely would have asked AQ about a couple of charters to fly any pax who wanted off the island to HNL.
     
    ConcordeBoy
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:39 am

    Bluewave 707, CO 777s are actually powered by GE90-90Bs...

    Actually, both of you are right. Most of CO's engines are indeed GE90-92Bs, but all are operated as GE90-90Bs.


    4 for long haul...

    4 for cargo fires  Laugh out loud


    Two 777 engines fail on one day. Now, what are the odds that those failures happen on a single 777?

    Of an independent variable... practically zilch.


    A four engined jetliner like the Boeing 747 can still fly easily with just one jet engine.

    They can stay aloft in good conditions, but they sure as hell cant "fly easily"!  Laugh out loud
    Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
     
    SSRJ
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:12 am

    For history buffs,
    Midway is the site of a Naval Battle in June 1943 between the U.S. Navy and Japanese Imperial Navy. Admiral Fletcher in overall command of 3 U.S. Carriers, Yorktown, Hornet, Enterprise and about thirty other relevant surface vessels (destroyers, cruisers)

    Admiral Chuichi Nagumo in overall command of 4 Imperial Navy Carriers, Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu, supported by 300+ surface vessels of varying types carriers, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, landing ships etc, including 1 or 2 light carriers with the main body force under Admiral Yamamoto, and 2 more full carriers that were engaged in the assault on Attu and Kiska in the Aluetians.

    In the end, the U.S. lost the Yorktown, and the Destroyer Hamman. The Imperial Navy lost the Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, Hiryu, and the cruiser Mikuma, or was it the Mogami? I forget.

    Sorry for any inacurracies, this is from memory.

    -RM  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
    When all else fails, read the directions. Else then, get the hammer
     
    HOMER71
    Posts: 2124
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:29 am

    There was a movie that chroncled that battle called, strangely enough, Midway, that came out in 1976, very interesting movie...
    "On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
     
    prebennorholm
    Posts: 6419
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:45 am

    Whether a captain chooses to divert or continue with a trijet or quad after an engine shutdown that may depend on many circumstances.

    If for instance he shuts down one engine because of a slightly low oil pressure reading, then he did it mostly because there is some risk that continued operation may mean a very expensive repair. But he also knows that in the unlikely case that another engine fails completely, then he can restart the first engine to bring him comfortably to a diversion airport.

    If on the other hand an engine fails completely, then he doesn't have that option.

    Sure there are several engine shutdowns on trijets and quads where they continue to destination, and neither the pax nor the press ever hear one single word about it.

    There will also be many examples when an engine has a slightly off scale indicator reading, then on a trijet or quad the captain shuts down the engine, while with the same indication on a twin he keeps it running, accepting a slight risk of a more expensive repair after landing.

    In any curcumstances, the shutdown rates we experience - on twins or quads - are so rare that it is really not a real safety issue. Current ETOPS rules are of course safe, otherwise they wouldn't be there.

    But every time a long haul twin has an engine shut down, then at least the pax - and consequently the press - learns about it. And then the producers of quads laugh all way to their bank. Passengers hate engine shutdowns over oceans, but only those shutdowns which they know about. The latter is probably the greatest advantage of quads over twins.

    Kind regards, Preben Norholm
    Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
     
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    HA_DC9
    Topic Author
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:07 am

    Here's another article for more about the incident. At the end of the article is stated why the jet landed at Midway because Wake Island's runway was closed for resurfacing, Johnston Island was closed permanently. If Midway was closed, they would have to return to Japan or divert 1200 miles to HNL.

    http://starbulletin.com/2004/01/08/news/story13.html

    [Edited 2004-01-09 02:08:12]
     
    artsyman
    Posts: 4516
    Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2001 12:35 pm

    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:26 am

    If Midway was closed, they would have to return to Japan or divert 1200 miles to HNL.
    ****

    If Midway was closed, then their flight plan would have been a lot further north than it was and this would have been a mute point. The only reason they flew as far south as they did is because Midway is there if they need it.

    J
     
    DeltaSFO
    Posts: 2407
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:32 am

    Woulda been kinda cool to be on that flight and get a guided tour of Midway Island.
    It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
     
    fraT
    Posts: 992
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    RE: CO 777 Makes Emergency Landing On Midway Island

    Sat Jan 10, 2004 6:48 am

    It seems that CO was really lucky.
    On board was a CO Structures Engineer Sr. Manager (what a title) who could identify the problem right away when they landed.
    Not sure if the pilots could have found it out as well but for sure it saved CO some time and money.

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