RJ100
Topic Author
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:16 pm

Hello

I have just read in a newspaper that Thai Airways is ending its ZRH-GVA-BKK flights in February and will only operate ZRH-BKK in the future.

Is this true? I can't remember reading something on this board.
If so, what went wrong with this service?

Thai says they drop the route due to economical reasons.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
TriStar500
Posts: 4411
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 9:50 pm

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:25 pm

It kind of surprised me when I heard that they would be operating a B777-300 (!) on this route in the first place anyway.
Maybe smaller equipment (e.g. A330-200 if they had any) would have done the job better.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
gardermoen
Posts: 1325
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 1999 9:52 pm

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:29 pm

It appears the Thai website doesnt have this service in the timetable section (although no mention about it in the Press section), so it appears yet another European port for Thai didnt work.
I sort of guessed that this wouldnt work when the first launched the route back in 2002, Thai never seem to be able to stick to any newer European destinations it adds (Vienna, Dusseldorf, Helsinki, Vienna, Istanbul, Brussels, Barcelona - what a joke that was to think BCN could ever work). EVen Amsterdam is no longer served.
Andthe Oslo service that was supposed to start last week has not taken off either.

I also think Thai had probs with the routing of the GVA service, first via ATH but no traffic rights were allowed between ATH and GVA, and then it was via ZRH, which doesnt make much sense really.
Im sure LH is happier as they will get the feeds via MUC/FRA.
 
RJ100
Topic Author
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:32 pm

I think they were even operating the 747-400 recently on the route...

RJ100
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UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 7:56 pm

Right on, 744 probably until the end :

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Made a nice change to see scheduled 744's at GVA though.
UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
dens
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 4:13 pm

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:49 pm

Hi,

What I heard is that the load factor on the GVA-BKK route is quite good. GVA is a very lucrative place to fly to and TG is the only Asian operator in western Switzerland. The problem is the cost of the extra crew for the ZRH-GVA segment. A crew has to stay in ZRH and then fly ZRH-GVA-ZRH and stays in ZRH 2 days, before going back to Thailand. That's the problem.
Some times ago, I heard that Thai wanted to fly from BKK to BRU via GVA using MD-11 equipment.

By the way, do you know where are the plans for Swiss Sky For the Washington-Geneva-Kabul route?

And another question, maybe Unique or somewhere else will be able to answer, how is the load factor on the Swiss route ZRH - SIR - ZRH?

Thanks,
 
ContinentalEWR
Posts: 3619
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 2:50 am

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 9:13 pm

I thought TG operated this route as GVA-ATH-BKK.

Oh well...

Are they still going to fly MD11's into ZRH?

 
lumumba
Posts: 361
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:16 pm

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:11 pm

Hi everybody.
Maybe it's like Brussels it was working very good (code share with SN) but because they enter the STAR alliance they started the new service with LH.
And from that time you had to fly thru Franfurt.
Regards
Pat

 
scf158
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:22 am

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:44 pm

I hope TG doesnt drop GVA... its the only 744 that ive seen at GVA for a long time. They have been operating this route via ZHR for years I heard.
 
scf158
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:22 am

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:45 pm

Does anyone have any oppinions on other routes that could open up to and from GVA?
 
RJ100
Topic Author
Posts: 3895
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:56 pm

@Scf158: Helvetic Wings intends to start GVA-BSL (with ATR-42 operated by Farnair) and GVA-BRN (PC-12  Big grin ). But haven't heard any news of them recently.

Also I would guess that GVA-Valencia would be a nice market in the next years with all the "Alinghi" sailing happening...

RJ100
none
 
airways
Posts: 852
Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2001 7:35 pm

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:11 pm

As far as I know, FlyBaboo is looking at a number of destinations right now. Furthermore, they're are in discussions about a second aircraft. New destinations could be announced in summer.

Michael
 
CV990A
Posts: 1385
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:15 pm

Please forgive me if this has already been discussed, but what is stopping TG from operating BKK-GVA non-stop with M11 or A333 equipment?
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
Guest

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:24 pm

Hey,

It is true. Thai is dropping Geneva at the end of January. As stated above the main problem was the crew issue, each flight cost thai about $100K. Loads are actually doing well this year around 120 pax per flight compared to about 80 last year, by all means the flight could never be profitable via Zurich as it would need to be full from Geneva outwards to break-even.

Tomorrow Thai will be making a decision on the future of Geneva, several options exist which are to relaunch GVA around July/September but this time as an extension of Dubai where TG already have a crew base. Other options such as Brussels or Manchester are also possible.

It's pretty sad that Thai didn't give more time for this route to grow as it was starting to do well these last few weeks...

Tim
 
copenhagenboy
Posts: 541
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2001 11:03 pm

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:03 am

I know Geneva has a special status, with many international organizations, but to be honest, it always looked strange to me, that Thai was able to serve two cities in the same small country.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15215
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:25 am

Tags are rarely, if ever profitable, especially if you have no fifth freedom rights. In this case, I don't think anyone has fifth freedom rights within a country. If TG can't make it profitable via another destination where it will have cabotage, then GVA will be cut. I'm not sure why they went in through ZRH...seems like a money loser from the start to me.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:11 am

extension of Dubai where TG already have a crew base

I guess they would get 5th freedom for this,Tim?
 
scf158
Posts: 406
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 1:22 am

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:54 am

This is probably a silly question but why doesnt TG just do non stop BGK-GVA-BGK ?
 
Guest

RE: Thai Airways Drops GVA

Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:15 am

Hey,

Dubai would of course have 5th freedom rights. Abu Dhabi is also a possibility. Fact is that as stated above the crew change costs soo much, that whatever thai does the route cannot be profitable via Zurich.

Just a little reminder of the story. October 28th 2002 Thai launches Geneva via Athens with B773 equipment. Thai expects to have 5th freedom between ATH and GVA but finally the greek government refuses in order to protect olympic. Following this thai decides that they will reroute via Abu Dhabi. Just as this is about to be done, the war in iraq starts and the flight becomes an extension of the Zurich flight using B744 aircraft. January 29th 2004 Thai cuts Geneva, even though loads and yields are improving. Thai will perhaps come back around July/September 2004.

It has to be said that the route was also limited on several points such as the fact that Zurich flights reserved a larger percentage of the seats blocking expansion from Geneva. The route has potential and unfortunately is cut right when it was starting to do well.

Tim