kevin752
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 3:18 pm

HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:05 am

I did not know that America West was go8ing to have A318's. Yesterday I was on a flight to LAS from LAX as the plane was airborne I was looking a the inflight magazine where there fleet was listed and I noticed that they ordered A138'. Now I want to fly with them when they get these. I would like to know more about what HP isgoing to do with them?? What kind of routes that they would fly and other things like that.
Thank you,
Kevin752
"Keep Climbing"
 
geg2rap
Posts: 726
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 11:02 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:36 am

Kevin,
Americawest.com has them coming in early 2006, but several people have posted here that hp might convert them to A319's becuase of the CASM (take that with a grain I have not heard anything from HP just a.net) wouldn't be suprised to see them on several routes that have CRJ900's and 737-300's I think all of HP's 737-200 are gone this year but someone got something solid on that
GEG2RAP
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 3:38 am

Hi,

This is would be deliveres for the new A318 around of February 2006. I still know about alot of America West and I read with the magazine into the my plane, too. If ou would like anything have question for HP staff and talk ya later!  Smile

Scott W.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:06 am

If they do take delivery of them, I would expect them to put it on some of the longer transcon routes that way the greater weight isn't as much of an issue as it is on short flights.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:18 am

Rjpieces,

The A318 will not have the range nor the capabilities for transcon routes like the A319 does. That is the reason why they are considering converting the orders to A319s. The A319s give them far more flexibility in the fleet. On the short-medium haul routes, which the A318 would be used, the difference in CASM is virtually nil.

.......
 
Prinair
Posts: 627
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 1999 7:28 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:34 am

HP is actually considering whether or not to cancel the order....Some of those options will be converted to A320s and A319s.

I believe they just ordered 4 more A320 in the last couple of weeks.

Also watch out for a Boeing order.....
PRINAIR - Puerto Rico International Airlines
 
User avatar
drerx7
Posts: 4279
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:37 am

A Boeing Order!? For what?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
as739x
Posts: 5055
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:54 am

Thank you Drerx7...what Boeing would they order???
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
expressjetphx
Posts: 259
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 2:33 pm

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:13 am

I heard a rumor a while back that they had canceles the A318 order long ago. Also, before this, when I read the Inflight Magazine, it said an early 2004 delivery. Have they been deffered for a time?
Prinair: A Boeing order makes no sense, unless America West is suddenly going to go long-haul with 767s, which probably won't happen. Short-haul Boeings just wouldn't make sense, because they are in the process of retiring the 737s.
 
desertjets
Posts: 7617
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:29 am

The A318 program hasn't exactly been a gleaming success. Problems with the PW6000 engine, coupled with the economy have certainly been responsible for HP's deferments. The 737-200s, what the A318 is intended to replace at least indirectly, are still flying... don't know when they will go. For the sake of flexibility and HPs need to expand out of the hubs the A319 simply makes more sense. Let Mesa and their CRJ-900s fly the markets that warrant <100 seats.

Boeing order?? Perhaps a 737-900X. If it can operate with pax and freight loads on long-hauls out of LAS and PHX in the summer it would make sense as a long term 757 replacement.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:43 am

The A318 will not have the range nor the capabilities for transcon routes like the A319 does.

This is untrue. The 318 has a range of 3250 nm, more than the 320 and plenty for any transcontinental US flights.

It was designed specifically for thin transcontinental routes.

N
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:04 am

Thank you Gigneil, that was the point I was trying to make!

The 318 would be awful on short routes like PHX-LAS, but perfect for long thin routes.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
sllevin
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:47 am

Has America West paid off the guaranteed loans yet? I know that one of the agreements in getting the loan guarantees from the ATSB was that they would take no new aircraft, which is why they've been keeping the 737-200's around the past year...

But I also think they'll probably get 319's when the time comes. The 318's block cost is only 5% lower, but at a cost of 15% fewer seats. So you've got a pretty tight niche where the 318 shines and the 319 doesn't (just run a fare sale and get another 8 people on the 319, and you're even, or ahead...)

Steve
 
Mir
Posts: 19356
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:50 am

Boeing order?? Perhaps a 737-900X. If it can operate with pax and freight loads on long-hauls out of LAS and PHX in the summer it would make sense as a long term 757 replacement.

I think we'd see the 321 before the 739. I don't think either is in the forseeable future, but I can't see any way they order the 739.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:06 am

My only guess is that they may buy more 757s. Perhaps Boeing will keep the line open slightly longer to cater to their order. Or maybe they will just buy used 757s. Either way, they are planning on expanding transcon flying a lot.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Mir
Posts: 19356
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:11 am

Boeing should have never closed that line in the first place, but that said, I still don't think Frontier will get any 757s, new or used. They seem to have decided to go all-Airbus, and I think they'll stick with that.

Though if they really want to expand transcontinental routes, maybe the 321s arent that far away....
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:19 am

You mean America West?!  Smile
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
Mir
Posts: 19356
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:31 am

No, I was meaning Frontier, but I got the two codes mixed up. Strangely, this always happens with America West and Frontier. My fault. Disregard everything I said (though it does represent my opinion on Frontier).
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
necigrad
Posts: 173
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2001 2:25 am

RE: HP A318's

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:26 pm

HP isn't getting rid of their 737-300's that I know of, only the -200's.

I did hear a rumor (not the word RUMOR) that Boeing is trying to offer a VERY swet deal. Probably exchanging the older 757's for newer ones returned from other airlines. This RUMOR also suggests that 767's have been mentioned. If it was mentioned, I'd expect a deal similar to what jetBlue got on their Airbusses. Fluids and tires for the first several years, then low payments. The ATSB loan shouldn't restrict new purchaces. Only if the new planes exceed the business plan does the loan need to be payed off, and then only inthe amount they spend. Or something like that.
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2000 10:57 am

RE: HP A318's

Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:32 am

Gigneil & Rjpieces,

What you said is true about the A318's design for 3250nm. However, let's not forget that the underpowered PW6000 engines, which it will be equipped with, will have payload issues with the fuel quantities required for transcon flights. This could be a potential problem for America West during the toasty summers in Phoenix and Las Vegas.

.......
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18884
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: HP A318's

Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:41 am

HP used the PW engine problem as a reason to delay the delivery - which fitted in very nicely with the demands of the ATSB.

Assuming HP goes ahead with the A318 order, I don't know if PW has yet fixed the engine problem.

If they have, then maybe there is no problem, and if they haven't, HP could either switch planes (to A319) or engines (to CFM)?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: HP A318's

Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:56 am

Has America West paid off the guaranteed loans yet?

I don't think so. Just F9 paid back the loan, from what I understand, and that was only partially.

AAndrew
 
Airportguy1971
Posts: 150
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:49 am

RE: HP A318's

Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:43 pm

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_2523180,00.html

Frontier first to pay back federal loan
By Julie Poppen, Rocky Mountain News
December 22, 2003

Frontier Airlines will announce today that it is the nation's first airline to pay off an Uncle Sam-backed loan aimed at counteracting the effects of the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Frontier Airlines spokesman Joe Hodas said Sunday that the airline will pay off the $11.6 million remaining of its $70 million, U.S. government-guaranteed loan today
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: HP A318's

Fri Jan 09, 2004 1:55 pm

However, let's not forget that the underpowered PW6000 engines, which it will be equipped with, will have payload issues with the fuel quantities required for transcon flights

Problematic, yes. Underpowered, nah. The PW6000 will be available in the same thrusts as the CFM56-5B for the 318.

Among its many problems, I don't think hitting thrust was one of them. Maybe you have more information??

N
 
flyboyaz
Posts: 2077
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 11:32 am

RE: HP A318's

Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:14 pm

The rumors of cancelling the A318 order have been around for quite some time. I haven't heard anything lately about it from anyone I work with. It would make sense to convert the orders to A319, as they could be better utilized. Rumors of Boeing orders have been around too, the only one's I heard were of NG 737's.

I just looked and noticed that our new BOS-SFO nonstops will be operated one-way with 757's and SFO-BOS with 319's. One LAS and one PHX will be upgraded to 757's. This could have been done on purpose or it could be that we don't have enough 319's to make the routes. Switching the 318 to 319 would help.
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