deltaflyertoo
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Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:57 pm

So USAirways officially is looking into selling one of their hubs and the Shuttle... Interesting... shrinking down is not the answer. But If I had to guess I bet it would be PIT on the chopping block. I wonder who will bid for the shuttle..
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:08 pm

Would Jetblue even consider bidding on this? I bet CO for sure might bid, maybe NW.
 
Guest

RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:18 pm

Sounds like the end is coming, in my opinion when any company starts to sell its assets its not a good sign.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:24 pm

Yep, I agree, we've seen this one before, Pan AM, TWA, Eastern-all started selling assets...I'm not a business genius, but I wonder if US is looking to allocate the funds from the sale to a certain account so that when the end comes pensions or other critical expenses are met....or, do they really think by selling they will pull out of this. I do know this was motivated by the unions reluctance to yet a new contract on concessions.
 
Guest

RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:25 pm

Did I miss something? Where did you get this information?

I bet CO for sure might bid, maybe NW.
On what, the Shuttle? If so, CO, NW and AA have announced they'd like to acquire it in the past... AA now operates its own shuttle, but with small ERJs.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:29 pm

I said I bet, that is my opinon, should have said IMO, but factually per the NY Times the shuttle maybe up for sale..
 
LHR001
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 5:42 pm

US Airways just signed an agreement on 10 gates for Pittsburgh!- Perhpas they should have waited a few days for that press release!

La Guardia and Washington/DCA for certain are the most profitable and noteable US Airways mini hub operations. If La Guardia and Washington/DCA are among those on the list to be sold or liquidated .. look for American and Delta to be two of the main parties interested in the purchase and or sale. American and Delta are the only two U.S. based carieers that have very strong route systems to and from New York City. The exception being Continental Airlines from Newark.

American Airlines has been commited to ongoing growth in the New York region and much more so now that they are intent on muscling JetBlue out of its current position in New York City!

United Airlines would be wise to get involved in the Shuttle market... The problem is that they are not in any financial shape to take on any more service... Especially since this would invlove payment upfront!

US Air Shuttle perhaps will be a prime purchase for Air Tran or perhaps Jet Blue... If they should want to start playing with the big boys!

US Airways hub operations and or status at Pittsburgh seems to change as each month passes on. The one time Pittsburgh fortress has been stripped of much of its former glory and no the airline after a long period of very bad press in Pittsburgh is faced with the challenge of rebuilding its image.. Now, if the airline is forced to step down ..yet again... It surely would not be a wise move to stay in the Pittsburgh market. Look for more low cost growth in the Pittsburgh market over the next several years.. and much sooner should US Airways falter!


LHR001
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:05 pm

deltaflyertoo,
try starting this thread instead of starting the thread usairways wants to sale assets-hubs,shuttle and gates.....ok sell the compound in crystal city, next get century 21 to unload pit, next get rid of that N.E. TRIANGLE SHUTTLE....glen and his crew are chomping at the bit to get david and his henchmen to unload the corridor to ua, next sell the gates(usair owned jetways) to the greater orlando(sanford intl)airport.....gary and his crew in cos sold sanford a deal and they are due a break after that fiscal nightmare.........cheers uadc8contrail
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
usairways85
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 8:57 pm

What are you talking about?!?!?!?!?

US is not selling anything. In fact there are rumors that US will receive another 60 airbus aircraft over the next 2 years, along with all the RJ's. They are not selling PIT they are just positioning themselves to easily downsize PIT. Just because an airline wants to downsize a hub doesn't mean they are going to sell the entire hub. They may deny the leases and then let the operator of the airport decide who will use the gates.

US is definitely not going to sell the shuttle, LGA, or DCA slots. They are key to the US network and i know they aren't that despirate to sell them. i think your statement that US is ready to sell "Assets, hubs, shuttle, gates" is purely rumor and speculation on your part.
 
N670UW
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:08 pm

Yes, I'd be interested in hearing the source for this information.


670
 
captaink
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:17 pm

Usairways85 and N670UW, thanks for airing my concerns too. As I read this post, I was thinking that US has really lost its mind at this point. THe shuttle is a very profitable operation for US. WIthout it, I can't imagine where US would be. THey have spent so much on streamlining the operation, new airplanes etc.

When I did the New Hire training in PIT, we were told that US is very proud of the Shuttle, and one of the reason they lost so much money in 9/11 is because their key airports were closed for a long time. I would have read this sale news myself to believe this one.

There is something special about planes....
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:06 pm

US Airways has apparently hired Morgan Stanley as the investment banker to market the assets, so at least one party will be guaranteed to make money on all this. I don't know much about the PIT, PHL and CLT operations but the Shuttle may no longer have the prestige it once did. Demand for this service is down with less business travel and more competition. Delta recently downgraded their own service from new 737-800s that were bought with some fanfare specifically for the Shuttle just a few years ago to older and smaller 737-300s due to reduced demand, AA is operating an ERJ service on a frequent schedule (though not as frequent -- or comfy -- as either Shuttle), and of course we also have the Acela high speed trains now which go from city center to city center. Anyway, I hope this doesn't spell the end for US Air, they have a good operation here at LGA and I'd like to see it keep going.
 
RiverVisualNYC
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:09 pm

Historical note I forgot to add. It's sort of been forgotten, but the Shuttle assets were passed around quite a bit in the '80s/early '90s. The US Airways Shuttle is of course formerly the Trump Shuttle and before that the Eastern Shuttle, which was the original. The Delta Shuttle used to be the Pan Am Shuttle, which itself was started specifically to compete with the Eastern Shuttle.
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:14 pm

Which airline is in a position to buy their shuttle operation?
I don't think AA or UA can due to funding issues. DL obviously can not due to competition issues. It might be lucrative for CO or NW and I think they've got the money for such a venture but since both are wanting to join SkyTeam this year, the competition problem arises again. I really think B6 or FL could make a successful go at the shuttle.

As for selling a hub, I think only NW is in the position to do this and benefit the most.
 
SunValley
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:18 pm

usairways85, here is the article from Reuters this morning

Reuters
US Airways seeking big asset sales - NYT
Thursday January 8, 2:30 am ET


NEW YORK, Jan 8 (Reuters) - US Airways (NasdaqNM:UAIR - News) is seeking to sell several assets, including its East Coast shuttle and possibly one of its three hubs, the New York Times said on Thursday, citing people who had been briefed on the airline's plans.
ADVERTISEMENT


The paper said the airline, which emerged from bankruptcy last March, is considering selling assets because it failed to get its unions to support revisions in its business plan, which would replace the restructuring plan it completed last April.

The airline has retained Morgan Stanley to gauge interest and find potential buyers, according to the Times.

The paper said that among the assets possibly to be put on the block are its shuttle serving Boston, Washington and New York, which operates out of La Guardia Airport; additional gates at La Guardia and Logan Airport in Boston; its regional operation, US Airways Express; and a hub, either Pittsburgh, Philadelphia or Charlotte.

The company could not immediately be reached for comment.




 
latinaviation
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:24 pm

It was also published in The New York Times.
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:29 pm

Deltaflyertoo:

So USAirways officially is looking into selling one of their hubs and the Shuttle... Interesting... shrinking down is not the answer. But If I had to guess I bet it would be PIT on the chopping block. I wonder who will bid for the shuttle..

I'd like a source for this information. I haven't even heard rumors about this, and something like this would be nearly impossible to keep secret.

This is something I would have to read for myself to believe it. US's management has done some strange things, but this would mean that they had totally lost their minds.

Edited to add:

From Reuters via Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/newswire/2004/01/08/rtr1202471.html

Well.......it looks as if US's management may have totally lost their minds.








[Edited 2004-01-08 14:55:21]
 
haveric
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:01 pm

Calm down people -- this is merely a threat by the US management to get the unions to come to the table for MORE givebacks and work rule changes.

Hiring Morgan Stanley just ads some legitimacy to the threat. To those of you who don't know, US' CEO Dave Siegal has recently publicly admonished union leaders who have been unwilling to compromise. Could be because Dave lied to them repeatedly in the past.

Once the unions do cave, US has plans to add 60 mainline Airbus jets, in addition to the 100+ RJs (E170, etc) that are coming on line over the next year.

So, don't get too excited, neither FL nor B6 will be flying the shuttle anytime soon.
 
PVD757
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:17 pm

Just to clarify something about the IT / KPIT), USA - Pennsylvania">PIT hub/gates. I'd have to re-read the release, but I clearly remember coming away from that release that US leased 10 gates long term and went month to month on the additional 40+ gates. It clearly stated that this was the case so US could CONTINUE TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE AIRPORT TO LOWER IT'S COSTS. It does not mean that the impending demise of the IT / KPIT), USA - Pennsylvania">PIT hub is around the corner. It simply leaves thier options open. IT / KPIT), USA - Pennsylvania">PIT would be the ONLY hub they would "sell" in order to maintain a sane business plan. We all bash US for thier financial difficulties while at the same time ridicule them for making decisions that may help them stay in the air. Remember, MANY east coast airports will take a huge hit if US goes under! Take US's share of airport costs away and who do you think will pay them - your airline! I'm not all pro-US and anti-everyone else, but their is a delicate balance that could be greatly disturbed at some very large east coast airports if they go away.
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:24 pm

RiverVisualNYC,

I hate to correct you but the Delta Shuttle has deeper roots. It is actually the New York Air Shuttle started by Texas Air Corp using Continental AC leased to NY.

When Texas Air purchased Eastern, it was forced to sell one of them. The New York Air slots were sold to Pan Am, which moved the shuttle ops to the old Marine Air Terminal.

I know, I worked for NY at the time.

Compare New York Air, the Airline that works for your Business
 
prosa
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:31 pm

I have the perfect buyer for the Shuttle. Remember that recent thread about WN's inability to develop a presence in New York? Hey, it would be easy for WN to afford, and the airline already has experience running a de facto shuttle with its DAL-HOU service.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:37 pm

I don't think this is just an idle threat as some have stated in order to compel the unions into more concessions. I've seen this all too many times in the industry. Airline's who are in dire financial straits start selling off assets in an effort to stay alive ie EA, PA, TW. No, this is more than just posturing, it's real. I hope US will survive but it doesn't look good. As for the sale of a hub, I really don't think PIT is a very attractive asset. I'm sure they could get more money for CLT or PHL but those are US's crown jewels. It would be devastating if they had to sell either of those two.
 
haveric
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:53 pm

DL Widget Head -- Monday, CEO threatens unions, but also dangles carrot of more planes.... Thursday, CEO lays out threats. Friday, CEO hopes unions see the light....

Of course it would be devastating for US to sell PHL or CLT, that's why it's merely a threat of a CEO who knows no other way to lead.
 
petazulu
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:00 am

Jetblue should buy the shuttle routes! That would be awesome! Everyone would be taking the shuttle again between NYC and BOS/DC.
 
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STT757
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:51 am

No one is going to buy PIT or Charlotte, US Airways is going to abandon PIT most likely in September anyway so why pay when you can get it for "free" a few months from now.

Also it's highly unlikely that AA and DL would be allowed to purchase US Airways LGA slots, Government regulators would want someone with a smaller presence in NY and LGA. Look what they were demanding of UAL and US Airways back in 2000, AA and DL are too big at LGA.

NWA, UAL (althought they are still in bankruptcy) , CO, WN, Airtran, B6 are potential bidders for LGA slots.

I also believe that CO may have first dibs on US Airways LGA terminal since they (CO) technically still own it, they have a long term lease with US Airways for the building.

DCA is more wide open, AA, DL, CO, Airtran, WN, are the potential bidders there.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
funflyer
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:56 am

I think it is horrible that USAir would sell anything, even if they are in bankruptcy.
Who cares about status?
 
CitationX
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 2:00 am

It's sad to see US Airways shrink back into the Allegheny-Piedmont regional airlines. Selling off core assets, such as a hub or the Shuttle may be the first tell-tale sign of their re-entry into bankruptcy, and possibly, eventual liquidation.

US may have a large fleet of new Airbuses, Canadairs, Embraers on the order books, but their current Boeing, MDD and Fokker fleets have been largely written down and have little or no market value - many of which are sitting in the desert, awaiting the scrap smelter. While some of the new jets may get delivered, I doubt US Airways will survive long enough to add another 60 Airbus and 100 RJs.

US is having their PHL hub invaded by LUV. JetBlue is whipping them out of NY. PIT appears to be heading toward STL's and RDU's status as a former hub. Plus US has only token international and trans continental operations, which are totally dependent on the existence of their current hubs.

US suffers from many of the same problems that made Eastern disappear: An "ivory tower" management team who appear to hold their employees and customers in contempt. The belief that new equipment can make up for poor management, marketing and service. A contentious management-labor relationship that resembles the "Hatfield & McCoys" feud. And an inability to effectively expand beyond the East Coast US market.



 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:03 am

citationx
good post but i didnt know b6 was whipping them out of the ny market??
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:13 am

CitationX:

It's sad to see US Airways shrink back into the Allegheny-Piedmont regional airlines....

Right now US is not all that much bigger than Piedmont was all by itself. It's shrunk that much.

US suffers from many of the same problems that made Eastern disappear: An "ivory tower" management team who appear to hold their employees and customers in contempt. The belief that new equipment can make up for poor management, marketing and service.

US has reminded me of Eastern for sometime now. What's more frightening is that the US employees who worked for Eastern say the same thing.

And......there is the same belief that new equipment can replace management, marketing, and service. It can't, of course. No object can replace any of those things.

I think it's sad to see US in this position.
 
Greg
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:38 am

I think analysts see this for what it is......pretty much the beginning of the end of US.
You can't shrink your way into profitability for very long. It's generally terminal.
 
CitationX
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:45 am

http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_aviationdaily_story.jsp?id=news/sie01084.xml

Here's another article on AvWeek's website giving more info on the deteriorating situation at US.

PiedmontGirl - It is especially sad that two really neat airlines, Piedmont and PSA, were sucked down the vortex into the "black hole" of US Airway's mis-management. In the case of PSA, most traces of that fun airline's legacy have vanished.


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gigneil
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:55 am

Plus US has only token international and trans continental operations, which are totally dependent on the existence of their current hubs.


While I agree US has problems, their international operations are much more than just "token".

N
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 3:58 am

CitationX:

PiedmontGirl - It is especially sad that two really neat airlines, Piedmont and PSA, were sucked down the vortex into the "black hole" of US Airway's mis-management. In the case of PSA, most traces of that fun airline's legacy have vanished.

It is beyond sad. Occasionally you'll still see a former PSA flight attendant doing her smiley thing in the cabin, but not often. One of those carriers was completely dismantled. The other was too big to dismantle, so they did their best to just beat it senseless.

That's a good article. Thanks for the link.


[Edited 2004-01-08 19:59:41]
 
luv2fly
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:01 am

Could this very well be another posturing move to send a message to the unions?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Logos
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:19 am

Here's a link to a preliminary Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article on the subject

http://www.post-gazette.com/breaking/20040108usairp5.asp

I would echo the sentiments of USAirways resembling Eastern on several levels. You've got a workforce that is burned out and has an adversarial relationship with management. Siegel didn't inherit a good situation after the Wolf/Gangwal regime (remember Wolf's comments saying they couldn't survive without merging with United?) and he didn't appear to realize the amount of repair work he had to do.

I felt that the head of the pilot's union calling for Siegel's ouster was something of a watershed event as it indicated a significant escalation of tension between management and labor. Siegel apparently now feels that he's getting nowhere by proactively communicating (he canceled a series of speeches to labor groups a couple of days ago) and has decided to play real hardball.

Siegel has messed up somewhat (mainly in how he managed their Chapter 11 emergence in leaving so much undone), but some of his predecessors were worse which meant he was dealt a crummy hand to begin with. Things could start to go very bad very fast for USAirways and I, for one, would be surprised to see much left of the airline (at least with the name USAirways attached to it) 2 years from now.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:30 am

US is definitely not going to sell the shuttle, LGA, or DCA slots.





Sorry USairways85, but looks like your information is a bit off. Look for CO to be VERY aggressive in pursuit of the Shuttle operation, provided their due diligence shows that it's still profitable; Amtrak's Acela service has taken a bite out of the Shuttle market, as has the fact that travel by air is more of a hassle these days.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:46 am

Luv2fly:

Could this very well be another posturing move to send a message to the unions?

It could be. The problem is that management at US has, for at least twenty years, not made any promises and kept them. They've only made threats and done nothing. So......no one believes anything any of them say. The problem with lying and jerking people around is that after a while they just don't believe you any more. If there was ever a time that US management needed integrity, it's now with their backs against the wall and they have no integrity bank from which to draw.

Logos:

Dave Siegel did inherit a very bad hand. I'm not at all sure that he really knew what he was getting himself into when he went to US. I fully agree with you that some of Siegel's predecessors were worse than he is. Wolf and his litany of "we don't need the merger (with UA) -- we can't survive without the merger -- the merger is a sure thing" -- and then there was no plan B -- comes immediately to mind.

Stephen Wolf didn't even ride on his own carrier unless he just had to. When he went to Europe, which was often, he went to ORD or IAD and rode on UA.

I have friends who are retiring by the dozen, not because they hate their jobs or don't want to fly, they just cannot bear to look at US anymore. It has become such a miserable and unhappy place that they've decided that retirement is the best option.
 
akjetBlue
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:47 am

So so so sad to see an airline with good intentions not quite making it.

Having been rasied in VA Piedmont/US was my hometown airline, its sad to even think that the end might be near.

I wonder what would happen if EVERYONE in the whole airline agreed to a company wide max salary until the airline starts making money again. lets say 150k to 200k, for everyone? Would that help? Or are CEOs and Pilots just not happy with having only 4 cars and 400k houses? I make 20-25k a year, and i'm happy. Can't we take a step back to see that emp pay cost are jsut a little out of whack? it's not the 80s and 90s anymore. Now you hafta SAVE money to MAKE money.

I wish the best for US Airways, US Air, PSA, and all the othere emps of the US family, keep you heads up.

-PhilzyMCO
Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
 
StevenUhl777
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 4:48 am

Siegel has messed up somewhat (mainly in how he managed their Chapter 11 emergence in leaving so much undone), but some of his predecessors were worse which meant he was dealt a crummy hand to begin with.

-You're right, however it's important to note that Bethune had a big mess to clean up at CO, and look where they're at now. In addition, Glenn Tilton at UAL inherited a HUGE mess, and they have made huge strides in the past year or so.

Things could start to go very bad very fast for USAirways and I, for one, would be surprised to see much left of the airline (at least with the name USAirways attached to it) 2 years from now.

-Right again...I won't be surprised to see a Ch. 11 filing by 3/31, and Ch. 7 is also a strong possibility as well, though I hope not for the sake of the employees. US will look very different 6 months from now, if not sooner.
And the winner for best actress is....REESE WITHERSPOON for 'Walk the Line'!!!!!!!!
 
Logos
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:01 am

Thanks for the comments PiedmontGirl & StevenUhl. Didn't know that about Wolf going to Europe - not hard to see why everybody hated him at US.

Here's more on the rancor at USAirways

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04008/259030.stm

It's really hard to resist the notion that this is a situation rapidly spinning out of control. There is very little margin for error from an operational standpoint here and there is all this infighting going on. I will agree about the Bethune example - the hand that Siegel got wasn't so bad that he couldn't have done better, but I wanted to point out that it wasn't all his fault. He should have realized that he had a workforce likely to give him a very short honeymoon and focused some more effort there.

I'd have to say there hasn't been real visionary leadership at USAirways going all the way back to Colodny. It's sad and the employees have apparently had enough. Personally, I can't imagine a scenario where this ends well for US. Sooner or later, you will be able to stick a fork in them. Again, very sad.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando
Too many types flown to list
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:02 am

Akjetblu:

I wonder what would happen if EVERYONE in the whole airline agreed to a company wide max salary until the airline starts making money again. lets say 150k to 200k, for everyone?

The salaries paid at US are wildly over estimated. Right now a pilot at Southwest makes more for a 733 than a US pilot makes for similar size/type/class equipment. The majority of US's fleet is made up of 733/4 and A319/320/321.

About the only pilots left who are making $200,000 are the Captains flying big bird across the pond and we don't have all that many of those.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:10 am

I doubt very much if CO would be successful in acquiring the US Shuttle if it was made available. CO operates a parallel shuttle (though not named as such) out of EWR so the gov't would have real concerns about a carrier controlling high profile routes to/from NYC - that was reason it was spun off from the Texas Air Group in the 1st place.

CLT has value as the only competitive hub to ATL in the SE as does PHL in the NE to EWR and IAD.

NW is probably the only carrier who has a good chance of acquiring most of US' assets because of anticompetitive concerns cited above for AA, CO, and DL. UA is of course broke.

The whole domestic alliance picture will be rewritten if any of the big six acquire any US assets.

The sad reality is that this kind of talk hastens US' demise based on the lack of confidence it produces in employees and customers even if was meant just as a threat to the unions. Incidentally, I think US and the RSA is dead serious about selling assets if they don't get what they want. I don't think it's realistic to think US could find a place to profitably fly 60 new jets in addition to the ones coming out of PIT anyway.
 
aa757first
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:11 am

Question: what is the purpose of CLT? American has MIA and SJU for the Carribean, DFW as the main hub, LAX for Asian flights (right?), and so on and so forth. I know PIT was intendened as an East/West hub, PHL is the main/trans-atlantic, but what is CLT for?

Thanks,
AAndrew
 
Tango-Bravo
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:21 am

USAirways is sounding (and apparently about to act) an awful lot like Eastern and Pan Am did as the end neared for them. With all due respect and regard for the employees who have been beating their heads against the proverbial wall (after agreeing to rapacious pay cuts) trying to save yet another airline pillaged by the Wolfman and his willing accomplices, IMHO it would be for the overall good of all concerned if "the rest of the story" for US follows the same script as EA and PA.
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:22 am

AA757First:

CLT was the result of the merger w/ Piedmont. From what I understand it serves US well in that part of the country. It has good North South flow connecting traffic up and down the east coast.

WorldTraveler:
If CO bought the shuttle, it would be no different than when UAL had flights to both SFO and OAK from LAX...don't think there would antitrust concerns.
 
PiedmontGirl
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:22 am

Aa757first:

Question: what is the purpose of CLT? American has MIA and SJU for the Carribean, DFW as the main hub, LAX for Asian flights (right?), and so on and so forth. I know PIT was intendened as an East/West hub, PHL is the main/trans-atlantic, but what is CLT for?

The CLT hub flies both trans Atlantic and Caribbean. It flies the West Coast and generally all over the place. CLT is a very busy place. If you think there is no traffic in CLT, you are badly mistaken.

I might note here that Charlotte, North Carolina, is the second largest banking center in the United States. The largest, of course, is New York City.

Airlines do not set up hubs just for one specific purpose. I know it can appear to be that way, but they don't. LAX, for example, is a huge market if your carrier goes to LAX and turns around and never ventures across the ocean. UA's Asian flights grew from their operation at LAX, they didn't set up LAX to just service Asia.
 
flyKCRW
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:23 am

I would definitely have to agree that USAir is nearing the end of its course. I really hate to see that. Like akjetblue, I also grew up on Piedmont and USAir. I remember flying PI between West Va. and Houston frequently as a kid; I still encounter a lot of ex-Piedmont folks while jumpeating. Such a great bunch...it really sucks that they had to go down this road. Anyway, best of luck to all at US! (especially the Piedmont vets, you deserve much better!)
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:24 am

that was reason it was spun off from the Texas Air Group in the 1st place

Um, no.  Insane

EA sold their Shuttle operation to Donald Trump to stay afloat financially. It was later sold to US Airways by Trump.

In the summer of 1990, beginning a complete disassociation from Continental, Frank Lorenzo sold most of his direct and indirect investments in the airline. The company renamed itself Continental Airlines Holdings, Inc.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
deltaflyertoo
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:26 am

Yeah I too remember the hay day of USAIr and Piedmont. I remember flying USAIr 727s from SFO to PIT in all coach lay out. Getting full meal service, not towels, ice cream, the works...
 
toltommy
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RE: Usairways Wants To Sale ASSETS-HUBS,SHUTTLE, Gates

Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:30 am

From PiedmontGirl -

"The salaries paid at US are wildly over estimated. Right now a pilot at Southwest makes more for a 733 than a US pilot makes for similar size/type/class equipment."

Can you share your sources? I know WN FA's are paid by the trip, not by block hour. Are WN pilots paid in a similar fashion? I'd like to just believe you, but I'd like to see the pay scales, and how they are calculated. My hunch is that for the same money, WN pilots are still more productive.