bongo
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KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:04 am

According to the pics, KLM flight to MIA with MD11's. A have two questions:
1. Are those KL's MD11 equipped with PTV's?
2. Will KL continue flying to MIA with MD11's or they are going to replace it with T7 ?

Thanks
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ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:18 am

Why are they reducing capacity by using a 763 this summer when the demand should be stronger  Nuts or is it just a mistake by expedia?
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:19 am

hey

with in the next two years KLM is redoing the MD-11's they are giving them The 777 interior. I dont think that any of the MD-11's have been equppied with this equitment yet.
No Vueling No Party
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:23 am

Will they be on the MIA run this summer, or is it really going to be a 763?

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 6:59 am

No KL MD-11s have ptvs.
Still like to know why they are supposedly not operating the MD-11 on the route in the summer?

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
Mdutch
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:01 am



with in the next two years KLM is redoing the MD-11's they are giving them The 777 interior


Where did you get that info???? Haven't heard any of that from within KLM.... They just decided to keep MD11 until 2012, our union is fighting to get some upgrades to the interior.... Don't believe they are putting 777 interiors in a plane that will be gone within 8 years......
Would make much more sense to put ptv's in our 744's

By the way, i's true MIA will be a 763 this summer shedule
 
bongo
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:03 am

According to that info I'll have to say No to KLM's route from MIA, just because I want a PTV in a 8+ hours flight and secondly because I don't want to fly Transatlantic in 767's...I prefer 747's, 777's or A340's. Do you agree?
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Mdutch
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:07 am

Hard to say, if you don't like the 763 then it's obvious
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:11 am

Bongo,

I'm afraid I too agree.BA or VS come before KL on my list. I don't understand why they are putting a 763 on the route for the summer. That is reducing capacity for the high season!!  Nuts
Although 2-3-2 is a good seating arrangement on the 767.
 
bongo
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:14 am

No Mdutch... I like 767...but I've flew a lot on AV's 767, so why waste that opportunity to flight in a bigger jet?
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
sllevin
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:18 am

Actually, summer is the slow season for Florida. People like to go to Florida in the winter, when it's cold in Amsterdam, and 80 degrees and sunny in Florida. Summer's in Florida are hot, humid, and, if you are not on the water, pretty lousy.

Steve
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:25 am

It might be Florida low season. But it is Europes high season which is when everyone jets off for their summer holiday because the schools are off for weeks( 7 in UK).

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
MAH4546
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:44 am

It might be Florida low season. But it is Europes high season which is when everyone jets off for their summer holiday because the schools are off for weeks( 7 in UK).

It is Orlando's high seasons, Miami's low season. Orlando attracts families, Miami attracts couples and the "jet set". Miami is too expensive for most European families to take a family of 4 or 5 on summer vacation. Miami's tourist season is Halloween through Memorial Day.
a.
 
Mdutch
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:48 am

Have worked on the AMS-MIA flight a few times and most of the times it was completely full with people embarking on cruises out of Miami. Don't know when the high season for cruises is... Just know that KLM usually is very flexible to increase capacity if the demand is there... Given the fact that we even don't do MIA daily at the moment the demand clearly isn't there....

Bongo, I would do the same thing. Doesn't Iberia fly to Colombia using 340's?
 
MAH4546
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:52 am

Given the fact that we even don't do MIA daily at the moment the demand clearly isn't there....


The demand is there. MIA-AMS is a huge market. The problem is yield. MIA-AMS does not have the yield that most other Miami-Europe markets have. One major reason is that Martinair Holland flies the route as well, also 5x a week, with dirt cheap fares. I doubt KLM makes much money passenger-wise on MIA-AMS, but the cargo yields make up for that.
a.
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:58 am

Do KLM operate to MCO? It would make sense.....wouldn't it?
 
Mdutch
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:02 am

sounds very possible to me.
KLM gave AMS-MCO to Martinair mid nineties, probably same problem.. low yield
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:06 am

In the UK BA and VS can operate to MCO daily even with the rival charter airlines at SFB.
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:20 am


MAH4546,

Actually the cargo yields on MIA/AMS are very low. Most of the traffic
that moves are perishables either flowers, ferns or snow peas. Although
they take up a lot of weight/space, the overall yield is very very low.
All of the major European destinations have low yields do to the amount
of carriers vying for the same traffic, AA, BA, VS, AF, LH, AZ, MP.
There is some cargo for the Mid East or Gulf region that carries a
premium, but overall, the cargo rates are extremely low in most
cases $0.50USD per KG. When the flight started up as a NW DC10,
I did the cargo sales for this route so this is first hand info, not guesses
as most post tend to be.
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
MAH4546
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:21 am

In the UK BA and VS can operate to MCO daily even with the rival charter airlines at SFB.

First off, the Orlando-UK market is much larger than the Miami-Netherlands market.

Secondly, as you said it yourself, they are rival charter airlines. Not scheduled service. It is a totally different situation. BA and VS are not under that pressure to match fares with charter carriers, who sell seats as part of vacation packages.
a.
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:38 am

My comment was about why KL don't operate to MCO because of martainair when BA/VS can with TCX, BY, MYT etc.
 
MAH4546
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:44 am

My comment was about why KL don't operate to MCO because of martainair when BA/VS can with TCX, BY, MYT etc.

Martinair Holland's flights to Orlando and Miami are scheduled flights, not charter services. They offer, on average, low fares on thier trans-Atlantic flights. KLM Royal Dutch is often found matching these fares. Miami is a higher-yielding market commanding higher fares, so it is not as much an issue. Plus, Miami has excellent cargo yields and a larger to>>Europe market. Orlando does not offer those advantages. Competing would make little sense.
a.
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 8:51 am

But surely KLMs service is superior to Martinairs leaving people happy to pay the extra for the better service on a long flight to MCO/MIA.
 
MIA777
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:01 am

The cargo yields cannot be that bad. Doesn't Martinair run a few MD-11F flights through MIA to Latin America/Caribbean? (I know they have the MD-11s there just not sure how many...at least 2).
MIA777
 
GARUDAROD
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:05 am



Mia777,

Yes the cargo yields are that bad. Martinair fills the freighters at the
origin points in Central and South America, they only provide a minimal
amount of lift direct MIA/AMS. Also believe it or not, a lot cargo is
trucked from MIA to Sanford for the multitude of charter flights out
of there. Rates ex-SFB are in the $0.35USD per kg range.
Transatlantic rates in General are notoriously low, only the Mid East,
Gulf, African cargos carry the premium.
Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
 
bongo
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 9:19 am

Mdutch:
Yes, IB flights to Colombia are with A340 (A340-600 for these days!!!) but I want to fly from US to Europe since I flew with IB a couple of times...want to try maybe Alitalia's T7 or VS or KLM's MD11 (not now after this topic)
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gte439u
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:59 am

But surely KLMs service is superior to Martinairs leaving people happy to pay the extra for the better service on a long flight to MCO/MIA.

Generally, Florida holiday travelers will not pay a dime more for better service regardless of the flight time.
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:05 pm

I take it Florida isn't a particularly popular holiday destination with the Dutch if KL/MP use 763s and BA/VS can fill up 744s
 
MAH4546
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Sat Jan 10, 2004 1:32 am

I take it Florida isn't a particularly popular holiday destination with the Dutch if KL/MP use 763s and BA/VS can fill up 744s

Florida is a very popular holiday destination for the Dutch. BA/VS use 747-400s, but they also have a much larger population base and more connecting traffic (at least in the case of the MIA services, which go to LHR). The Netherlands is a much smaller country. AMS is one of only two cities in mainland Europe that Orlando has scheduled non-stop service to. As well, Miami has a significant Dutch ex-pat community.
a.
 
spl
Posts: 156
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Sat Jan 10, 2004 9:39 am

Latest news on the KLM MD11 fleet... KLM MD11 PH-KCI "Mother Teresa" has had it's D-check and is returning service in full new colors!!! This Saturday, the 10th of January it's expected back @ AMS. Can't wait to see it in the new colors!!!
 
ScottishLaddie
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Sat Jan 10, 2004 11:39 am

So where are the MD-11s operating this summer?
 
spl
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:50 pm

Hello,

Here is the KLM MD11 schedule for this summer, but changes are made every ones and a while... So maybe I'm wrong or forgot some, feel free to add...

Vancouver, daily MD11 service
Lima, 5x weekly MD11 service
Quito, 5x weekly MD11 service
Caracas, 5x weekly MD11 service
San Francisco, daily MD11 service
Nairobi, daily mixed service by MD11 (3x) and B777 (4x)
Newark, daily MD11 service starting 17 may
New Delhi, daily MD11 service
Minneapolis, daily MD11 service


At this moment are these the routes KLM is flying in the winter season:

Bonaire
Lagos
New Delhi
Toronto (from the 4th of April a daily B777)
Miami (will be 5x weekly a B767 in the summer)
San Francisco
Aruba
Lima
Guayaquil

Groeten SPL
 
killerbabe
Posts: 185
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:01 am

I flew the route a couple of times now with KLM's MD-11 and most of the time a lot of seats were empty.So a down-turn to the 767-300ER is a good choice for KLM.
tourist can always take Martinair daily flight, performed with a.... MD-11
 
GoAibusGo
Posts: 238
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RE: KL's MD11 In MIA

Mon Jan 19, 2004 6:29 am

Here in Bonaire the KLM MD-11 fly almost every day 4x a day.

The MD-11s make stops here en route to either Lima or Quito/ Guayaquil.
They refuel and change crew.
I just saw PH-KCI rush by my window en route to Lima and then coming back at about 1:30AM local time.

BTW Martinair service on the Miami - Amsterdam is quite good. I find it better than KLM's. But it is a 767 and optimized to do charter/ leisure travel and the business (Star) class is not that much compared to KLM (I mean the seat here and not the service).

Greeting from Bonaire, Netherlands Antilles (the Caribbean)

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