DFWMEX
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Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:16 pm

I think long long time ago AA used to fly to Australia. Does anyone know why they don't enter the market US-Australia? I noticed that Qantas and Air New Zealand have several flights a day and they are usually full. I have been trying to catch a cheap ticket to visit Australia with a stopover in New Zealand, but I only find those unrestricted coach class priced over $2000USD. It is obvious that this high demand for transpacific travel warrants the overpricing. How come AA hasn't entered service. They should put 4 daily 777 to satisfy some of the surplus demand for seats. Are there any restrictions for which AA doesn't fly to the Australian continent? Is United the only airline allowed by reciprocity or is it that AA just chose not to service the market?

Thanks!

Jose

PS Does anyone know a particular travel agency or other airline that offers cheaper alternatives (no matter if the travel time is longer or through a bizarre route)?
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:20 pm

The reason why AA doesn't fly to Australia is the fact it would not offer enough revenue for AA to fly the 777-200ER between LAX and SYD/MEL. This is why AA has a codeshare with QF on QF's flights between LAX and SYD/MEL.

I believe a number of older discussions here mentioned this.
 
DFWMEX
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:26 pm

Not enough revenue? Charging $2000 a seat in coach sounds lucrative. How come they offer sometimes $275 R/T DFW-LGW and still profit? Or are you saying that only a 744 would generate enough revenue to make it worth it? I think AC flies via HNL on a 763 and on that one I understand it may be less worth it for the airline, but AA has the whole US to feed AA 777 in LAX or even HNL. I think the market is there, but in my opinion, AA doesn't want to have isolated destinations in the middle of nowhere. Narita is almost the exception, but they have Osaka and used to have Taipei nearby. All other destinations are grouped in clusters.

So there is nothing to do with government restrictions or freedom rights for not going south? Is it merely capacity?

Jose
 
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ramprat74
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:31 pm

You need two aircraft to operate one daily nonstop. AA doesn't have the aircraft and they don't need to fly it because of the codeshare with Qantas.
 
aeroman62
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:47 pm

And they have flown to Australia twice since the 1970's briefly in the early 70's via Honolulu to Pago Pago, Auckland and Sydney from St. Louis, Chicago and East Coast points, and I believe briefly again in the late 80's, early 90's from Honolulu again, this time connecting with LA, Chicago and DFW. Both times it didn't make money, the original 70's routes were eventually taken on by Continental, which also bailed out in the early 90's as well.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 3:48 pm

A lot of airlines would love to enter the market as it is very lucrative...but it takes a fairly big startup to get it going. As ramprat74 said, you need two aircraft to operatre one daily nonstop. It is just a big operation to set up. SQ is dying to enter that market but QF keeps protesting.
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777ER
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:21 pm

Not enough revenue? Charging $2000 a seat in coach sounds lucrative.

Is that for flights to Australia via AKL (New Zealand) or direct to Australia?

Air New Zealand's cheapest flights to New Zealand from the USA are $850!!! but only for a limited time and flights to SYD from AKL start from $189* or to MEL and Brisbane are from $199*. To get these cheap fares you need to book at least 1 month before you fly. You can book up to a year in advance

*Only if you book on http://www.airnewzealand.com



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airxliban
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:23 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but to use a twinjet on a route from LAX or SFO or whatever to Sydney or Melbourne would require the use of a less efficient route due to ETOPS regulations.

I am on crack or is this actually the case, does anyone know?
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777ER
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:26 pm

AirxLibon

UA have flowen a B777-200ER to AKL from LAX and as far as I know they have flowen a B777-200ER to SYD also, so yes it is possible. But the plane would most likly need every inch of fuel it can get on board
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TBCITDG
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:54 pm

Why would they???
Especially when QF offers a very high standard of product on board!! AA is very happy with the agreement that they have with QF!!There is no need whatsoever for them to enter the USA-AUS route.


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CO737800
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:56 pm

Ok well why not CO or NW fly the route then. A CO 777 or NW 747
 
thestooges
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 4:59 pm

Most Australaia/ New Zealand flights non-stop acrosss the Pacific to the Americas are flown on 4 engined aircraft. Qantas flies 744's, United flies 744's (yes they did fly the 772 from LA to AKL but that was just before they cut the route i.e. it was only because of low demand. It was previously always flown with a 744), Air New Zealand flies 744's, Lan Chile flies A343's and Aerolineas Argentinas flies A342's.

This definitely seems to be an ETOPS issue, the pacific is just too big of an ocean to use a twin engined plane regularly.

American definitely has no 4 engined plane it can utilize for this route. This is probably the main reason why United is the only American carrier to fly to Australia, as they are the only US carrier which has a considerable amount of 744's.

Maybe if they could fly from Chicago or Dallas to Sydney via Honolulu with a 772 or 763, this could be a possibility, but once again there is no need with the Qantas codeshare.

It would be much more likely that eventually either Delta, Northwest or Continental will start service, and then codeshare with the other two.

It would be interesting to see if United did go under who would start service to replace them, if anyone would at all.

When you think about it the only airlines outside of Australia/ New Zealand/ Asia that fly to Oz are British Airways, Lauda, South African, United, Air Canada, Lan Chile and Aerolineas Argentinas.

Just think of the major airlines that dont serve Oz such as Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, American, Delta, Northwest, Continental (at one point they all did expect for Delta, but have all since pulled out).

Australia, even though a lucrative market is still a LOOOOONG way from anywhere and as stated in the posts above takes a lot of aircraft to fly.
Thats why most airlines are happy to share the distance, American codeshares on Qantas, Qantas codeshares on LanChile, KLM codeshares on Malaysian, Lufthansa codeshares on Thai, Singapore and Lauda and theres too many others to name.
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:07 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but to use a twinjet on a route from LAX or SFO or whatever to Sydney or Melbourne would require the use of a less efficient route due to ETOPS regulations

Consider yourself corrected.

When the FAA only allowed ETOPS138 operations in the S.Pacific for USA carriers... it was a problem. Not so any longer.


This definitely seems to be an ETOPS issue, the pacific is just too big of an ocean to use a twin engined plane regularly.

Not only is this statement utterly ridiculous, but blatantly false as well  Big thumbs up
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AMM744
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:24 pm

Rather shameful that the world's largest carrier can't fly to Oz because of a lack of equipment.

You'd think that AA, a company that represents the US perhaps better than any other carrier could fly this route. They could if they decided to use a 747-400ER, this would take care of the ETOPS issue.

The 777LR would also be able to manage this route when it eventually becomes available, though the route could never be as direct as with a 4holer.
 
Qantasclub
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:56 pm

This hasn't happened because:

1) AA isn't in great shape financially and I doubt they would have the resources to start up an new and expensive long haul route to Australia.

2)In terms of inflight product and service...if you've ever flown AA internationally, there is no way in the world they could compete with Qantas. I think UA has the same problem, which is why you are much more likely to find a seat on UA than QF.

Although I do agree that there is room for another carrier. Prices seem to be going up all the time. But not AA. Would be great to see either VS or SQ on the route. They would certainly give QF a run for their money.
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PVD757
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:08 pm

In regards to CO or NW flying the route, I thought that there was a bilateral agreement covering who and how the route can be served by. I thought that QF and UA were the only carriers allowed to fly the route. AA codeshares the route because of their inability to enter the market a few years back. If not, why wouldn't NW at least complete a one stop and generate connecting traffic in Japan? Unless there is a restirction between Japan and Australia.....
 
RMenon
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:44 pm

There are no restrictions on who can serve the route - any Aussie or US carrier can start US-Aus if they want to.

NW, AA, CO have all served the market in the past, Ansett was planning to before it went bust. There is simply not enough market to justify a new entrant. While the last minute coach fare may well be in the 2.2-2.5k range, very few are typically sold outside of the Dec/Jan high season.

As somebody else pointed out, during the rest of the year $800-900 fares from West coast to Syd are easily available.

On the other hand, AA gets relatively high-yield coach traffic. Their code-share fares on QF are typically higher than those avail on UA, QF and NZ.
 
AA7771stClass
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:08 am

Another aspect is that none of us actually know the business aspect of beginning/maintaining a flight like this. Perhaps the coach tickets seem expensive but it is well-known that cargo and premium cabins is where true money for a route is made, that's why RDU-LGW is so successful. On the ETOPs discussion, the South Pacific is actually a lot for accessible as the farthest distance for twin jets is between mainland U.S. to Hawaii, already served by twins (752,738,763,772). That 4-5 hour trip is the longest time over water without any diversion point other than turning around or continuing onward. So in my understanding, the Pacific isn't that bad after you make it past Hawaii, a trip that all the carriers do easily.
 
sccutler
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:29 am

"In terms of inflight product and service...if you've ever flown AA internationally, there is no way in the world they could compete with Qantas. I think UA has the same problem, which is why you are much more likely to find a seat on UA than QF"

The differences in international service are negligible, and QF's seat pitch is very poor... DVT in the making, so to speak. And (flame away) I have spoken with more than a few frequent travelers between OZ and the US who actually prefer UAL's service to Qantas', including some Australian nationals. Not a "I'll never fly them" sort of thing, just general impression. Having never flown UAL on this service, I cannot comment, though I have found UAL's service in most instances to be solid. YMMV.

If AA wished to fly to Australia successfully, they would need to have a reasonable outlet for pax for onward flights in Australia; QF are their primary code-share partner, any expanded relationship with Virgin Blue would be a serious threat to the QF connection.

As noted above, AA's strong work with QF makes it simply unnecessary for them to fly their own hardware to OZ.

The importance of an outlet for follow-on traffic can be seen in NZ's cancellation of its LAX-SYD service; with no AN to carry its pax on, its service became less viable.

By the way, CO does still serve Australia, just not much; Cotinental Micronesia serves from Guam. Small, but more than nothing.
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Bicoastal
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:40 am

DFWMEX writes: "I have been trying to catch a CHEAP TICKET to visit Australia with a stopover in New Zealand, but I only find those unrestricted coach class priced over $2000USD. It is obvious that this high demand for transpacific travel warrants the OVERPRICING."

Now you know why airlines are hurting and personnel are being laid off and being forced to take pay cuts. Everyone wants a cheap fare and could care less about profit for the airline and salaries for the employees. Overpricing? Says who? If it subsidizes other routes, great. Airlines can't print money.
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Nicollo
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:45 am

CO still flies to Australia (Cairns) from Guam but not from State side. CO also used to have the longest flight in comercial history, Newark,NJ - Hong Kong with a B777-200. Only to be beat out by Singapore Airlines new Non-stop flight form Singapore to Los Angeles .

Well, that was my 2 cents of useless facts /chuckle
 
rjpieces
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:39 am

AMM744, hold your breath for an AA 777-200LR!  Smile
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Sydscott
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:21 am

Lets put this all into perspective;

AA - won't fly to Australia because it lacks available equipment to do so and has a great codeshare partner in Qantas. QF already flies 3 times daily to LAX from Sydney plus once daily from Auckland and Melbourne. That gives AA 5 flights a day to codeshare on. Why would they bother adding their own services. Also Virgin Blue is feeding UAL flights so you can rule out an agreement between them and AA.

NW - Used to fly Tokyo-Sydney and from LAX to Sydney but withdrew services. The Tokyo sector was their most lucrative because of their hub. Unfortunately their planes had to have at least 50% of passengers originating in the US and, since they didn't, a spat involving the Aust Govt ensured that NW won't be flying back here for a while. Plus there hubs are in Detroit and Minneapolis so they dont really have any major West Coast hub to feed from. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

CO - Used to fly here but no longer has the available equipment to do so. All their 777's are used elsewhere and I dont see them in any hurry to re-establish the routes. Besides which they have the same problem which NW has, no West Coast hub to feed traffic from. Mind you they would be able to generate quite a bit of traffic from their Newark hub if they wanted to. The Northeast US isn't really well served with connections to Australia apart from QF's New York service.

DL - Again no available equipment, no West Coast hub.

UAL - flies down under daily and wont be increasing service any time soon. I would assume the Australian service would be a highly profitable part of their Pacific network. If its not they are doing something very, very wrong. Personally I prefer QF across the Pacific but then I prefer all the One World Carriers over their Star compatriots.

As for SQ, I dont think theres a snowballs chance in hell they will by flying SYD-LAX anytime soon. They are already the 2nd largest carrier into Australia but I dont think the government will let them have services. I think it more likely that someone like Cathay, Virgin Atlantic or Emirates will be encouraged to compete on it. For Emirates it would provide a great entrance to the West Coast US markets.

Just my thoughts on the topic.
 
gigneil
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:33 am

UAL flies twice daily. Once from SFO and once from LAX.

N
 
Ironminds
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:47 am

Part of the problem, also, is that the Australian government is very tight on letting new players enter this route (there was a whole thing recently abotu Singapore flying it, I think) so that Qantas can maintain it's oligopoly on this VERY lucrative route --and as to the poster above who raved about QF's service, I fly it a coupla times a year to NYC, never really had a problem (maybe b/c I grew up with US-flagged carriers), but there are an awful lot of people, Aussies espeically, who feel their national carrier is a nightmare.

I would LOVE to see more competition, be it another American carrier or an Asian one flying through, on the SYD-LAX/SFO route. And to the poster who boo-hooed about PAX wanting a good deal, I'm sure the airlines will make it pay.
 
scottysair
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:57 am

I don't think AA might not goes back to Australia into the future and this is already before was flies out of LAX-SYD/AA), New Zealand">AKL and was discontinue that flight. Maybe AA might want to get an the orders of the bigger new B777-300ER with the extra range and more flight on their way to SYD and this is better way to fly there. I can feel of you guys about future will able flying there and who you would like to take chance goes on their flight.
 
iflyatldl
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:12 am

As mentioned in an earlier post, AA used to have some So. Pacific routes in the 70's and 80's. They even briefly had a few 747 SP's. It ran out of both STL and DFW and they just were not fountains of revenue. Since they have the codeshare with QF, they can just funnel traffic to that route.  Smile
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QANTASpower
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:20 am

Ironminds says

"but there are an awful lot of people, Aussies espeically, who feel their national carrier is a nightmare"

Please don't make such a ridiculous comment about an airline which has been flying people around safely for over 80 years and is regarded as one of the worlds best in terms of product and service ... not to mention one of the most profitable.

QANTASpower

 
iflyatldl
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:25 am

I'd fly QF without even thinking twice. Big grin
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Sydscott
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:34 am


Ironminds says

"but there are an awful lot of people, Aussies especially, who feel their national carrier is a nightmare"

Of course there are. Then again we whinge about the Banks charging too many fees and about the Poms who come over here and dont like it but stay and whine. But we still all use the banks and welcome the Poms. I've heard plenty of comment about UAL and, more recently when I saw in the US, about America West.

Qantas has won the Avion award for in flight entertainment the last 2 years running and are investing hundreds of millions in their product. I don't see UAL doing that. But then again they've got no money!!!!!

As for the government, they are not interested in protecting QF on their US routings. They are the ones actively encouraging the likes of Emirates to expand. I'm sure if Richard Branson were to ask for rights to fly to the US from Australia he'd get them. It's also a bit easy to scream protectionism when no other airlines in the US, including those who currently hold rights, will use them to fly here while blaming the government and Qantas for creating an oligopoly. The truth is that if US Airlines wanted to compete they already have the operating authorities to do so and we would then have a very competitive market place across the pacific without introducing any other 3rd country carriers. So the fault for the lack of airlines flying the route rests entirely with the US not with QF. QF is simply playing the dominant carrier while it can and I dont see UAL in any hurry to start a fare war with them for market share.
 
DFWMEX
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:33 am

I did notice the current promotions of NZ and QA for around $900 to $1200 to one of the two countries. But because of the distance and the waste of time traveling, I would like to purchase a ticket that would allow me to visit Auckland and continue on to Sydney and return from Melbourne. These tickets are the ones over $1900-$2200 I was talking about.

What suggestions do you have? Should I just buy a R/T to Auckland on those specials, and then buy a separate open jaw from there to Sydney and return to Auckland from Melbourne? Somebody mentioned above fares about $190. Please confirm if the fares between New Zealand and Austrialia are fairly inexpensive and also if the intra-Australia are the same.

I always had the impresion that between NZ and Australia the fares would be very expensive.

Any advice will be very appreciated.

Thanks!
 
Gemuser
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:55 am

People ..... The South West Pacific is a very large place with a LOT of water and very few people. Between the east coast of Madascar and the west coast of South America (both excluded) and excluding that part of Indonesia south of the equator, there are about 25 - 30 million people. This area covers about 25% of the earths surface and has about 0.5% of the worlds people. Its population is less than that of the LA Basin + SF Bay area.

Therefore its airline routes tend to very long and relatively thin (of payload), Not a good recipe's for making money. As others have pointed out you need a lot of aircraft, frquencies are one or two daily, so fixed costs are high and yeilds are generally low. The prospects for another US carrier are very small, not because they can't make money, but because they can make more money elsewhere.

I understand that AA is very happy with its code share arrangement with QF. There seems little other scope for another US airline. It just aint worth it!

Why then is it worth it for QF, NZ & FJ? Because we live here! We have little where else to go so all three are very, very tough customers in any rivalry with other airlines. Of course QF's number one priority is Oz - LHR, OZ - LAX is a close second. For NZ, NZAA), New Zealand">AKL - LAX is top priority. No other airline will give this part of the world that kind of priority.

Gemuser
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rongotai
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:57 am

DFWMEX

Air NZ have recntly geared up for the arrival of Virgin by introducing 'Tasman Express' no frills fares - no frills meaning no change of flight.

If you buy in NZ there are seats at NZD169 one way (USD90) and up. go and search on the AirNZ website for fares on the days you want to travel - but go to the New zealand site, not the US one. Your only problem is that you can't buy at these fares until you get here.

My experience is that the cheap fares are reasonably available about 5 days out, especially from Auckland and if you are flexible on departure time.
 
rongotai
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 11:58 am

... oh yes, and have a look at Air Tahiti Nui. If you don't mind a one stop flight from LAX they often have good fares from US to NZ/OZ
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:12 pm

Ironminds:
Did you pose the Question "What is your opinnion of Qantas?" to every single pasanger that has flown the carrier?
To make such a grand statement is ludicrous. I figure out that you have asked let's say 50 people you know. Of those, let's suppose 10 didn't like QF. Is that the vast majority of Australians that you are speaking of?? Out of the Hundreds and thousands of people that QF fly every year?
We should learn to make better assumptions. Don't you think??

Sccutler: If the service on QF is so poor as pointed out by you, if the seat pitch is that bad and if people prefer to Fly with UA from the USA to OZ, is there a reason why there are sooo many flights operated by QF and not by UA??
Would frequent flyers prefer a flat bed in "j" class over a normal seat?
Personaly having flown both carriers, there is nos comparison to the service offered by QF and UA. Qantas wins hands down. If there was another player on these lucrative routes, I'd be very worried if I was with UA. Especially with the likes of Cathay and Singapore!
 
aussie747
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:13 pm

I am surprised nobody has picked up on the fact that QF/AA have a very nice relationship together.

With QF being able to fly 4 to 5 times a day to the west Coast (I think QF remains the largest International airline operating into and out of LAX), AA does very well with feeder traffic to the USA. My only concern is why don't AA expand their LA hub to include more destinations on the West Coast, I mean they do not even fly LAX-SEA or YVR. I know they used to fly to YVR from LAX.

 
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ramprat74
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:35 pm

AA tried to fly to more west coast cities from LAX after they bought Reno Air. They operated from T-3 and T-4 in LAX. They couldn't compete with Southwest and America West on some of the routes. They dropped most of the flights they started, or they are RJ's now. Its just like AA. Buy another airline and drop their hub and city pairs.
 
United Airline
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Mon Jan 12, 2004 10:55 pm

There are no restrictions on who can serve the route - any Aussie or US carrier can start US-Aus if they want to.

Then why did the Australian Government deny SQ's request to start service between USA and Australia?

 
UA744KSFO
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:58 am

Because SQ is not an Aussie or US carrier.
 
gte439u
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:08 am

There are no restrictions on who can serve the route - any Aussie or US carrier can start US-Aus if they want to.

Then why did the Australian Government deny SQ's request to start service between USA and Australia?


Firstly, SQ is not from the US or Australia, but Singapore. Singapore is not party to the Australia-USA bilateral open-skies accord, so SQ would not qualify.

Secondly, SQ tried to open service between LAX and SYD, however the Australian authorities denied its request. Supposedly, QF did not want the competition from SQ on a very profitable route.
 
SlamClick
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:26 am

Cuz y'all talk funny!

Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
RAAFController
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:29 am

Hi All,

QF and AA as previously discussed have a very good partnership which means that AA do not need to fly their own equipment to AUS. There are actually a number of carriers servicing the route, QF, UAL, ANZ, direct as well as AA via Japan (QF to AA), Japan">NRT, then AA) which is quite cost effective and not ignificanlty longer than via AA), New Zealand">AKL. JAL olso service this route, direct and through codeshare on QF. Finally Air Pacific (fiji) and Air Canada offer services. These routes all offer direct or 1 stop routes from SYD/BNE/MEL to various US destinations and vice versa. The less obvious ones such as JAL and the AA/QF Narita routes tend to be less costly due to the slightly longer route.

QantasClub/QantasPower: Being an Aussie and a very frequent flyer (on many airlines), and top tier QF FF, I cannot agree that QF is as fantastic as you make out. While it is certainly not a "nightmare" as some posts have made out, a recent experience on QF 747 and AA 777 certainly made me feel that AA's Y class INTERNATIONAL product is far superior to QF's in terms of service, seating (pitch), aircraft age/type, and FF lounges. I would also say that some other airlines I have flown on recently (ie in the last 12 months) which include LH, US, BA, TG, SIA, MH, and EK, also offer a better service. I fly QF because as an Aussie it has the best route structure both domestically and internationally for my needs. If their were an alternate I would fly it. When i fly to Europe as a QF pax, i always try to get the BA codeshares as I feel the seats/service is better. Likewise, to the US, it is always pleasant from AA), Japan">NRT on AA, after QF. The seat pitch of QF Y class is very poor, the only airline I have flown in Y class with worse seating is EK 777's (where the seats are very narrow).

I am not bashing QF as I think their J class, and IFE is very good (if not worldclass), along with the check in procedures and domestic QC lounges (the New Sydney international QC lounge is shocking!).

Anyway, I trust you can take this as objective and faily compared. QF's intergration with AA is superb, and it stands to reason that AA will never need to fly to Aus while such a seamless and strong partnership exists.
 
RAAFController
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 9:50 am

RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:31 am

Hi All,

Further to my last, strangely enough BA does some very competitively priced flights from East Coast USA to Aus via LHR. Takes a long time, but the rpice is good, if $$ are your only concern

[Edited 2004-01-12 18:34:04]
 
richierich
Posts: 3295
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:39 am

What routing does Air Canada use for its Australia flights?
I am assuming though Vancouver... is this direct service?
None shall pass!!!!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:06 am

Rather shameful that the world's largest carrier can't fly to Oz because of a lack of equipment

There's no "lack of equipment", but rather a case of "why waste the equipment".... AA is already the world's largest 772ER operator, and they haven't even finished deliveries. If Aussieland was a priority for their metal, they'd have no prob allocating the equipment.


The 777LR would also be able to manage this route when it eventually becomes available

Though you never actually specify any route in your post... why bother with any of the existing routes?

772LR is expected to be able to op Texas-Australia no problem. Of course, considering AA's past reaction to the GE exclusivity on the 772LR, wouldnt hold my breath on that one  Laugh out loud



though the route could never be as direct as with a 4holer.

*blatant falsehood alert*


There's no ETOPS nofly zones under the current ETOPS180... not to mention the expected future 240 and 330minute approvals
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:31 am

AA is building up its presence on the west coast, particularly in LAX. They are starting LAX-AA), Japan">NRT (the largest transpac route) this spring . It is highly possible that AA could build a reasonably strong Pacific operation on its own using its fleet of 777's and its position as the US' largest airline. AA is also likely to become very aggressive against UA after UA comes out of bankruptcy (unless they are unable). If AA decides to build a Pacific operation, Australia could well be a possibility but they are far more likely to focus on other Asia/Pacific routes first. Until then, codeshares w/ QF work just fine.
 
thestooges
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:46 pm

RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:31 am

Concorde Boy - you commented on a statement of mineT

I said-
this definitely seems to be an ETOPS issue, the pacific is just too big of an ocean to use a twin engined plane regularly.

You said-
Not only is this statement utterly ridiculous, but blatantly false as well

THEN WHY DONT ANY AIRLINES USE 2 ENGINE PLANES !!!!!!!!!!
did you not read the first part of the post where I meticuosly listed every non-stop pacific route and what aircraft were used on it.

Obviously airlines wouldn't think that my statement is utterly ridiculous and blatantly false BECAUSE they all fly with 4 engine craft and obviously for a good reason !!

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition !!
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:18 pm

RAAF Controller:
What does anything that you have said regarding the service have to do with the topic "Why doesn't AA fly to Australia?"
You have already made up your mind regarding the superior product offered on AA simply because of (and I quote) "a recent single (1) experience
As with you I too have had terrible experiences and a lot of them with the Airlines that you mention, especial EK!!!
Maybe you should open a new forum or keep the service related experiences to other web pages: Sky -----????
Just a few questions for you:
What does aircraft age have anything to do with service??? Seeing as QF operate brand new 744?!?
Don't ANZ, UAL, ANA all offer flight from OZ to Tokyo to the US??
As a "very frequent flyer" "top tier QFF" "flown BA,TG,US,MH etc etc" as you felt the need to tell everyone, What are you doing flying in Economy??

I must emphasize that I have no relation to Qantas whatsoever, but to compare an Airline with:
1. Great safety record 2. Flatbed in "j" (eventually) 3. Superior First Class service. 4. PTV's in economy 5. On board SMS text 6. A la Carte service in First
to an airline that offers none of the above is beyond me.
I hope I did not offend



 
gigneil
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Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:02 pm

THEN WHY DONT ANY AIRLINES USE 2 ENGINE PLANES !!!!!!!!!!

Capacity. SYD-North America is a high-demand route.

N
 
User avatar
ramprat74
Posts: 1328
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: Why AA Doesn't Fly To Australia?

Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:09 pm

What routing does Air Canada use for its Australia flights?
I am assuming though Vancouver... is this direct service?



They stop in HNL.