Topic Author
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Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:47 pm

I just got back from PHX after flying LH from FRA. I had read earlier that LH was going to cancel this flight. I talked to some LH employes in PHX and they told me that LH was shutting down the station completly and that the flight was not going to be reopened. According to them the flight was always full. Also they said that LH made the mistake of using a 767 for a little while on this route that they couldn't fill up because of the Arizona heat. What could be the reasons that LH shutdown this flight even if it was full??
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RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Sun Jan 11, 2004 10:57 pm

From what I understand, a large number of the passengers were tourists as opposed to more high yield business passengers. Which seems odd that this fact would make them lose money since airlines flying to pure tourist destinations do just fine on those flights. (Hawaii, Cancun, etc.)
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Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 9:58 pm

RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:15 pm

I think another reason could be that other cities such as Portland and Denver have subsidized their LH flight and/or have garanteed that that they will buy a certain number of tickets. Phoenix has not.
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RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:36 am

PHX was high volume but low yield. LH started service around same time they started DEN which was the logical hub to provide service to PHX. So much capacity into that sector of the country was a bit overzealous.

After 9/11 they scaled the service back considerably and its more difficult to make a less than daily service work.

BA has made PHX work with association with America West, LH had no such feed at PHX.

LTU should look at this market however if they have lower costs than LH.
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RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Mon Jan 12, 2004 12:44 am

LTU might be good at least for seasonal service. Their used to setting up temporary shop being a charter flyer. I cannot believe that someone could not at least do seasonal service.
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RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Mon Jan 12, 2004 1:53 am

I think a seasonal LTU or Thomas Cook service from FRA would be a great idea and a good way to pick up the huge tourist demand from Germany into PHX.
Both would have the capacities that are necessary to serve this route and I am also sure that they could fill up their premium seats (First Comfort/Comfort Class) pretty easily.

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RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:35 am

At PHX, BA gets most of the premium traffic and they have the America West feed.

4Holer, actually only Continental does well on their Hawaii flights AFAIK. The majors feel obliged to have these flights since that is where most Frequent Fliers use their miles. It is extremely low yield and that is why we see aircraft like 753s and 764s on these routes because they have lower costs.
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RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:25 am

I have a friend who's a LH F/A, and they absolutely hated the PHX flight. Mostly they hated Phoenix as a city which made such a long flight something not to look forward to. That, combined with other things people said above might have helped the decision to stop flying to Phoenix.
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RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:54 am

Most of the f/a's I talked to on the flight were sad that the flight was going to be cancelled. They liked Phoenix as a city (as do I) and they were going to miss the flight. Their only complaint was that LH was using the A343 that they leased from SN, they didn't know where anything was.

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RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:02 am

Forgive me for being a little blunt, but there is a simple answer to all of these "why did X airline cancel Y service?" Think about it: it was not making money.

99% of the time, this is going to be the reason for service cancellation. It is very hard to make money in the airline business, and even if flights are full it doesn't mean an airline is turning a profit on a particular route. I don't care how big your city is, or how much business is there, there's no guarantee that there will be profitable international airline service. I'd love to see Air France back at DFW or Air Canada back at AUS, but both airlines simply couldn't make money on the route. When it all comes down to it, it's that simple.
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RE: Why Did LH Cancel PHX

Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:58 am

LTU served Phoenix in the mid 1990's. The service lasted about a year or two! The Phoenix market is good.... Problem is low yield. The same came into play with America West flew Phoenix-Honolulu-Nagoya. Low Yields! British Airways is operating the 747-400 to Phoenix because frequency is dropping. Phoenix is the same as Las Vegas - Low Yield, Low Ticket Price!


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