B747-437B
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Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:46 am

Air India will launch service to Lagos (LOS) in Nigeria effective from 28 March 2004.

Services will operate twice weekly via Nairobi (NBO) in Kenya using Airbus 310-300 aircraft. These flights will be in addition to the already existing twice weekly services to Nairobi that continue to Dar-Es-Salaam (DAR) in Tanzania. There will be no fifth freedom rights available on any of the intra-African sectors.

Flight schedules will be as follows :

Lagos services
AI 205 (ops. Wed/Sun)

BOM d 0145
NBO a 0515 d 0615
LOS a 0915

AI 204 (ops. Wed/Sun)

LOS d 1035
NBO a 1745 d 1850
BOM a 0330+1

Dar Es Salaam services
AI 201 (ops Mon/Fri)

BOM d 0930
NBO a 1310 d 1410
DAR a 1525

AI 200 (ops Mon/Fri)

DAR d 1625
NBO a 1745 d 1850
BOM a 0330+1


An official announcement about the new service will be made later this week. Flights will be avaiable for sale through CRS systems at that time.

Lagos becomes Air India's 26th international destination, in addition to 12 international gateways in India. This service will be the only direct flights between India and West Africa.

Air India is the flag carrier of India and operates a fleet consisting of 14 Boeing 747s and 18 Airbus 310s. The airline services 38 destinations in 19 countries on 4 continents with its own aircraft and codeshares to 11 additional destinations.

[Edited 2004-01-13 00:03:09]
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
behramjee
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:12 am

Good decision on AIs part concerning LOS flights...but they will lose so much $$$ because NBO-LOS-NBO combined is like a 7 hr flight and if they arent allowed 5th freedom rights on this route then they will lose so much $$$.

They should have instead used their brains and fly to LOS via an open skies city like DUBAI or AUH or BEY!!!

This was one of the main reasons why GF failed with IAH as they couldnt fly pax JFK-IAH-JFK which is a 5 hr flight combined both ways!!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:21 am

This was one of the main reasons why GF failed with IAH as they couldnt fly pax JFK-IAH-JFK which is a 5 hr flight combined both ways!!!

That is called cabatoge. There is no way they would have gotten rights for that flight. The fact they couldn't carry local traffic to/from LCA was probably an even bigger contributer.

El Al flies EWR-ORD/MIA and BA flies IAH-ORD with no local traffic. They do just fine.
a.
 
behramjee
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:09 am

What I meant was GF shouldnt have flown to IAH via JFK...instead a better option would have been via YYZ or a European city!!!
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:40 am

they will lose so much $$$ because NBO-LOS-NBO combined is like a 7 hr flight and if they arent allowed 5th freedom rights on this route then they will lose so much $$$. They should have instead used their brains and fly to LOS via an open skies city like DUBAI or AUH or BEY!!!

I'll be sure to pass on your thoughts to the folks in question. I can't believe they didn't realise how much $$$ they will be losing. Thanks for bringing it up.

It should however be noted that you could fly to Lagos via anywhere, but unless the Nigerians granted you fifth freedoms (which is about as likely as Singapore_Air getting laid) you'd just be wasting your time.

To refresh your memory, AI operated BOM-NBO-LOS back in 1986-87 and it was a very succesful route. Unfortunately, the route was discontinued after the politically motivated incarceration of Air India crew and aircraft for almost 6 months by a rather corrupt government in Nigeria.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
behramjee
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:46 pm

Well Mendis...the Nig Govt granted EK 5th freedom rights from LOS to Accra and back.

Only Kenya Airways flies NBO-LOS nonstop and from NBO too u can take via ADD Ethiopian but thats it. Im surprised that the Nig Govt didnt grant AI rights for the NBO-LOS-NBO as it would have brought in more business to the country from East Africa + more FDI and a whole load of other financial benefits.

Did AI in 86-87 have 5th freedom rights on this route and if so what aircraft were they flying on the BOM-NBO-LOS route?? B 742 or AB4?
 
Vimanav
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:19 am

AI introduced LOS flights via NBO on 19JUN86 with A310 aircraft which had just joined the fleet that year.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
Vimanav
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:20 am

Sorry make that 18JUN86.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
B777337
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:05 am

Guys If I am not mistaken, AI used to operate B 707s on Nairobi-Lagos-Accra route prior to 1986.

cheers,

Himmat
 
5NEOO
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 2:38 am

To refresh your memory, AI operated BOM-NBO-LOS back in 1986-87 and it was a very succesful route. Unfortunately, the route was discontinued after the politically motivated incarceration of Air India crew and aircraft for almost 6 months by a rather corrupt government in Nigeria.

I am not very sure how long the crew of AI was incarcerated, but I don't think it was for 6 months! (If a plane lands in your country and customs officials locate a package of drugs on the aircraft after all passengers have disembarked, it's quite logical for the government of that country to detain the plane and its crew until an investigation is carried out)

Only Kenya Airways flies NBO-LOS nonstop and from NBO too u can take via ADD Ethiopian but thats it. Im surprised that the Nig Govt didnt grant AI rights for the NBO-LOS-NBO as it would have brought in more business to the country from East Africa + more FDI and a whole load of other financial benefits.

I guess the Nigerian government has finally realised that the more you grant foreign airlines 5th freedom rights from your country, the more you steal competitiveness away from your local operators.
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!
 
jaysit
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:36 am

What local operators does Nigeria have left that fly transcontinental services?
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
5NEOO
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:52 am

There are only two local airlines providing "international" service: ADC and Bellview. Their service is only limited to Liberia and Sierra Leone. Beyond that, ain't nothing left in this country!
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!
 
behramjee
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:06 am

The Nig Govt is stupid hands down...for not giving AI the 5th freedom rights plain and simple!!! I dont know what their side of the story is but trust me it wont be worth even a cent!!!

By the way Mendis...what is the source of your info concerning the launch of LAGOS flights as I cant find it on Economic Times nor Hindu Businessline websites.



 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:14 am

what is the source of your info concerning the launch of LAGOS flights

Source is people in the know about such things. I can't name them for obvious reasons (not least the fact that Mog has been threatening a witch hunt to get them fired), but the official announcement will be made in due course. Be patient.

I cant find it on Economic Times nor Hindu Businessline websites.

I think we have proven rather conclusively that a certain journalist from the Hindu Businessline simply steals his articles from our posts here anyway, so give him a few days to plagiarize this one too and I'm sure it will show up in print.

I try not to regurgitate articles from the print media anyway. We have enough users here who do that!  Big grin

[Edited 2004-01-13 21:28:31]
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
behramjee
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:17 am

hahahaha...yes Ive noticed too quite a few articles copied and pasted on the Hindu Businessline website from AIRLINERS.NET too...hehehe  Big grin

What is MOGs position? Some senior dude in AI/IC?
 
5NEOO
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:19 am

The Nig Govt is stupid hands down...for not giving AI the 5th freedom rights plain and simple!!! I dont know what their side of the story is but trust me it wont be worth even a cent!!!

For somebody who doesn't know squat about Nigeria, you do sound very opinionated.
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!
 
behramjee
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:22 am

I may not know Nig Politics properly but I do know when a stupid-senseless decision has been made which would have brought nothing but positive stuff for the Nig Economy in the terms of FDI and $$$.

FDI-Foreign Direct Investment.
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:37 am

If I am not mistaken, AI used to operate B 707s on Nairobi-Lagos-Accra route prior to 1986

You are not mistaken. Lagos was launched in 1976 and operated through 1986 with 707s. It then became the first A310 route outside Asia (BOM-NBO-LOS) in 1986 and was discontinued after the impounding of VT-EJJ in Lagos in 1987.

[Edited 2004-01-13 21:38:48]
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
5NEOO
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 5:41 am

Yes, yes, yes. I am very aware of the meaning of FDI, and Nigeria desperately needs a lot of that. But the last thing we need in this country is to give up another industry to non-Nigerians who will simply repatriate money earned in Nigeria to their home country. We have one of the most liberal open skies policy of any country out there, it is a matter of national interest that we ultimately protect ourselves.
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:12 am

I am not very sure how long the crew of AI was incarcerated, but I don't think it was for 6 months!If a plane lands in your country and customs officials locate a package of drugs on the aircraft after all passengers have disembarked, it's quite logical for the government of that country to detain the plane and its crew until an investigation is carried out

The Inflight Supervisor, the Engineer and the Purser were held for about 3 weeks in jail without being charged and subjected to a bunch of highly unsavory interrogation tactics. After that they were subjected to a kangaroo court that sentenced them to death by hanging. They were finally released after 34 days on the personal intervention of Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi. The aircraft was impounded for another few months beyond that.

The IFS involved in the incident is a good friend of ours and I remember very clearly the trauma that his family and the entire airline went through during those days. He's now retired and I met up with him just last week at the airport when he was seeing off his daughter at the same time I was heading to Frankfurt.

Don't give me crap about due process that had to be followed. It was plainly clear that these guys had absolutely nothing to do with the drugs that were found and they were being used as the scapegoats to protect some better connected folks at Lagos airport. Hopefully you guys have your legal system in order by now, although with the email scams that keep showing up in my inbox I'm not so sure.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
5NEOO
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:11 pm

The Inflight Supervisor, the Engineer and the Purser were held for about 3 weeks in jail without being charged and subjected to a bunch of highly unsavory interrogation tactics. After that they were subjected to a kangaroo court that sentenced them to death by hanging. They were finally released after 34 days on the personal intervention of Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi. The aircraft was impounded for another few months beyond that.


So I guess I was right, 34 days doesn't equate to 6 months!

I don't know what you mean by Kangaroo court; do you have any idea how the judicial system in Nigeria works?

Bottom line is that those individuals were tried the way criminals are tried here in Nigeria, might not be the way you guys do things in India but we are working on it.
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!
 
B747-437B
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RE: Air India To Start Lagos Flights, Increase Nairobi

Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:29 pm

So I guess I was right, 34 days doesn't equate to 6 months!

The crew were in jail for 34 days. The aircraft was impounded much longer.

I don't know what you mean by Kangaroo court; do you have any idea how the judicial system in Nigeria works?

I don't particularly care how the so-called judicial system in Nigeria is supposed to work, but when innocent folks can be tortured and sentenced to death it is obvious that the "system" is FUBAR.

Let bygones be bygones - that was 17 years ago and obviously a lot has changed. It would be fitting for VT-EJJ to make her triumphant return on the LOS inaugural, although I doubt anyone in scheduling has a sentimental streak in them.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada