CanadaEH
Topic Author
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Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:18 pm

WestJet Announces A Tripling of Toronto Service

CALGARY, ALBERTA--WestJet today announced the following changes to its
schedule effective April 18, 2004. These changes are part of WestJet's
2004 expansion plans announced on December 22, 2003 but include schedule
details as well as details of a redeployment of capacity from Hamilton
to Toronto. To facilitate this redeployment, WestJet will be moving its
Toronto operations to the larger Terminal 1 (New) from Terminal 3 on
April 8, 2004. A complete list of WestJet's schedule changes is
available in the accompanying Schedule Change Backgrounder.

Clive Beddoe, WestJet's President, CEO and Executive Chairman, said
today: "I am very pleased to announce the details of this, the
latest phase of our aggressive schedule enhancements for 2004 which will
provide 1,580 weekly network departures. These changes are made possible
by the addition of one new 737-700 series aircraft and the redeployment
of capacity from Hamilton.

"These schedule enhancements have also been made possible by the
opening of and our move to Terminal 1 (New) in Toronto's Pearson
International Airport. With this move WestJet will now occupy a prime
location in Canada's largest airport and will have the opportunity to
serve from Toronto the key markets of Montreal, Ottawa, Halifax and
Winnipeg, improving profitability as a result. Our guests have continued
to ask us to provide WestJet services between these major Canadian
cities and we are pleased that this new schedule will allow us to meet
this demand."

WestJet's new schedule, effective April 18, 2004, features 1,580 weekly
departures across Canada, including 182 from Toronto's Pearson
International Airport, nearly triple today's Toronto schedule.

Throughout 2004, WestJet will add 11 new Next-Generation aircraft to its
fleet. WestJet currently operates a fleet of 44 Boeing 737 aircraft, 25
of which are state-of-the-art Next-Generation 700-series aircraft
equipped with leather seats and enhanced legroom. WestJet will be
installing live seatback satellite TV on its entire fleet of 737-700
aircraft.


For information on route changes go to:
http://www2.ccnmatthews.com/scripts/dnrp/release.asp?d=/cnrpxml/2004/1/14/209356_3_0114200461014AM.xml&t=WJA
EH.
 
PVD757
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Wed Jan 14, 2004 10:41 pm

Seems things in Canada are about the same is in the U.S. LCC hitting the "incubmant" (AC) where it hurts. Hope AC can continue to get themselves on track before its too late! Otherwise great news for all except maybe Hamilton.
 
Tennisace
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:40 am

Wow!! Talk about a turnaround in philosophy. WJ originally had huge plans for Hamilton, now it is being scaled right back. I'm sure the Hamilton airport authority and many residents there will not be impressed with WJ much anymore, after all the promises they made. I guess they're chasing the money to YYZ. Looking at the new flight schedules, I see that Westjet will indeed be making connections in YYZ, so this is another about face. And in T-New to boot! I assumed that T-New was all for AC or Star Alliance.
Just shocking, shocking news.........but Clive hasn't been wrong yet.
 
Rattibone
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:59 am

This is awesome! T1-New was primariliy going to be for AC and Star Alliance but with this announcement, T1-New is offically a common use terminal. This is going to be great. Watching an airline doing very well competiting head to head and in the same terminal with an airline with difficulties. I can't wait to see how this will be.
 
Olympus69
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:01 am

Hamilton must be really unhappy - losing about 11 flights a day. That leaves them with about 6 departures a day. Most of the losses are flights to Montreal and Ottawa - all switched from Hamilton to Toronto.

WS must have gotten a good deal from GTAA to move into the new Terminal 1. It'll be interesting to see if they have anything set up in time for the next trial on January 24th. Probably not, as they don't start flying from there until April 18.
 
yegbey01
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:05 am

Not a good strategy.

This will be the start of a new trend. West Jet on the decline.

Air Canada, as it emerges from bankruptcy will be able to compete head to head with WestJet. AC will kill them as soon as they get those new RJs

WestJet offers shit service, no Aeroplan miles, no nothin....

 
fraT
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:08 am

So they reduce Hamilton to nearly nothing.
Everytime AC drops a single route short after inauguration, there's a big bashing going on here. WS is dropping a hub a couple of years after opening it - and gets applause.
Kind of weird.....
 
Olympus69
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:22 am

They're not dropping a hub - they're moving it 33 nm from YHM to YYZ.
 
cayman
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:25 am

I am surprised that we haven't heard from FLYYUL on this one......

I think the GTAA is going to address the costs issue and is trying to stimulate new business. There is lots of active interest in YYZ these days, especially from a number of big international carriers. Now WS needs to come up with some means of booking pax out of country...not necessarily code share but even a preferred price or something that could provide some degree of seamless travel.

Meanwhile AC can go off and set up all the unnecessary secondary hubs they want, spend huge sums of money doing it and push themselves further towards the cliff....
 
captaingomes
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:26 am

Very interesting and weird news if you ask me. I agree with Tennisace. Seems as though the philosophy is changing at WS. Let's look at the changes they have made in the recent past (not necessarily in chronological order, but close).

- Replacing the old 737-200's with all brand new 73G aircraft. Some will argue that they could have been more conservative and purchased slightly used second generation 737's, and maybe combine those with some new 73G's. Whether or not anyone agrees with the purchase of the new 73G's in such a large scale, it shows a less conservative approach to acquiring aircraft. This costs a lot of money, but should also save a lot of expenses in the long-haul.

- Expansion to eastern Canada. Expanding away from their core market around YYC and other airports in mainly Alberta, B.C. and Manitoba, also costs a lot of money. You need the infrastructure, new contracts at airports, ground handling, equipment, staffing, and of course advertising and other expenses. This was a bold move, and eventhough WS did a great job of it, I am sure there were many people nervous about expansion. There are many unknowns. They were chartering into new territory. This has obviously done very very well for them though.

-Starting service YYZ. After successfully establishing YHM as their eastern hub, with their low costs and serving not only the Greater Toronto Area, but also areas west of there that are more conveniently accessible to YHM, WS also increased their cost structure I am sure with service to YYZ. The yields are surely higher in YYZ, but higher costs are also reflected in this change. Landing, parking and other fees must be considerably higher. This to me also signals a continued change in the philosophy at WS where increasing costs to attract higher yields is a good thing.

-Bell ExpressVue Satellite TV. Adding PTV's with live 24 (I think?) satellite TV to every seat also increases costs. The idea here is to attract more business, and potentially higher fares. Again, higher cost structure to attract not only more passengers but higher yields.

-Increased seat pitch to 34". 34" of seat pitch! That is excellent! That is roughly the same as the 34-35" in AA's much enjoyed MRTC in their long-haul aircraft. I believe their domestic aircraft have slightly less legroom in MRTC than the WS aircraft. But the cynic in me begs a questions ... as some of us know, adding PTV's to seats noticeably reduces the usable space for passenger's legs. Is the seat pitch increased to add the same number of inches of legroom, or is it partly or fully to compensate for the addition of the PTV's? Regardless ... the fact they can advertise the legroom will allow them to increase yields.

-Today's news. Already well dealt with above by other members.

The bottom line is this. Whether or not it is a good move or not, WS is clearly going away from being a strictly low-cost airline. They are increasing the number of frills on board for passengers. They are adding brand new aircraft at a very quick pace. They are moving into the most expensive terminal in the most expensive airport in Canada. They are increasing their cost structure to attract higher yields. I just hope they don't get greedy. Jetsgo and Canjet will clearly have lower cost structures (if they are close to being as efficient as WS).

All in all, way to go WS! Good luck!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
PVD757
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:27 am

I did not YHM was that close to YYZ!
 
CanadaEH
Topic Author
Posts: 1331
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:33 am

Not a good strategy.
This will be the start of a new trend. West Jet on the decline.
Air Canada, as it emerges from bankruptcy will be able to compete head to head with WestJet. AC will kill them as soon as they get those new RJs
WestJet offers shit service, no Aeroplan miles, no nothin....


How do you know this is a poor strategy? Hamilton's airport is maxed out right now for capacity, perhaps the redeployment (notice how the word redeployment was used in the news release) is temporary until a new terminal is built in YHM? The flights cut from Hamilton were mainly short haul flights (YUL, YOW) but the long haul (YYC, YEG, YQM) flights were kept, but with less frequency. We recently built a hangar in Hamilton which we paid for - and we don't normally throw money around, which leads me to believe that perhaps in the future, once a new terminal is built in YHM, that more flights will be added back there. Just my opinion though.

We don't offer Aeroplan miles, we don't codeshare with other airlines, and we don't have lounges. So what? How exactly do we offer shit service? Our 27 consecutive quarters reflect out popularity, so tell me how we offer shit service?
EH.
 
yhu
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:34 am

True, but I don't think AC setting up secondary hubs, whethere it be YVR, YUL or YYC, is what's pushing them OVER the cliff. I think they have much bigger problems than that. Many airlines around the world have at least one Secondary hub and are doing fine.

As for Westjet and YHM, I am very disapointed to see the YUL-YHM service go. And not, I'm not glossing. I have to get from Montreal to the Niagara region about 4 times a year. So the Westjet service was VERY usefull. But, I guess if it's not making money then it's not making money. It was just nice flying into a small, quiet terminal that much closer to where I was going.

Dave
 
fly_yhm
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:24 am

My 2 cent at first I was not happy but a few things 1 this opens up opportunity for other airline to fill the gaps and airlines have been speaking Hamilton Airport Authority. Im sure jetsgo and Canjet are kinda not happy about this so we shally see. Whether or not this was a good move last I looked Westjet stock was dropping. Like was mentioned earlier I don't think this is really bad and once the HAA gets thier heads on straight and spends some money we should see an increased presence again. They have a hangar here. Its just going to be interesting to see how some of the other airlines respond to this.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
Goose
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:55 am

WS has a vested interest in YHM.

I'm surprised no-one here has compared this to the fact that WN in the 'States operates to something like four airports in the LA Metro area - granted, Toronto isn't close to Los Angeles in terms of market size, but the strategy is also similar. So is the current WS setup in the YVR metro area - while they fly quite a few parrallel flights out of YXX to (mostly to YYC and YEG), which isn't all that far away.

And no, apparently the YHM-YUL flights weren't making piles of money. They weren't even half-full, even during Xmas, as far as I was told....

And a lot of the flights from YHM-YOW actually continued onto YYT and YQX, which were also cut out of YOW. Why were they cut? Because they probably flew out of YHM with more far pax for YYT than for YOW.... so it'll probably be replaced by a non-stop.

WestJet on the decline? Hrm, well.... the stock price may go down marginally, but I'd guess it's still a sound investment. The activity I saw on the TSX were some small sales of shares, but the price looked to be holding steady. It's still hovering around $28/share.... while Air Canada hovers around $1.50 a share.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 4:47 am

Cayman -- I am surprised that we haven't heard from FLYYUL on this one......

He's busy (maybe in the middle of the Caribbean right now, on his way to St. Maarten and likely at least a bit of spotting there amongst other things. Maybe he'll visit you too, who knows  Smile )


But about the Westjet big news today-- wow, sure is a downer for air travelers to and from the Niagara peninsula region :- / And chopping YUL-YHM entirely okay I guess that's only natural if they're going to move the flights --and expand frequency overall in the process-- to and from YYZ T1N instead.

However chopping YOW-YHM down to 0 too, sheesh that one seems a mite harsh. Seems to me there oughtta be at least a market for a daily departure there -- but oh well maybe it's just temporary for a few months while YHM Admin (and Hamilton Chamber of Commerce guys and whoever else) perhaps get together to make some sort of decision to get jetbridges at YHM so it can become a more real 12-months-a-year airport or something like that. Hope that's all it is, and that afterwards --maybe even by year's end if all goes well for them at YYZ with the newly expanded operations there, WS can beef up YHM service again too.


Sure going to be interesting to see how AC freaks out about handles the gauntlet thrown down for the premier inter-city route in the country (YUL<-->YYZ). Going to be a few interesting little fireworks there for a while, I imagine. Jetsgo is in for some challenges too though-- their MD80s departing a half-dozen or so times daily on the run currently seem to be about 1/3 full, on average. Yikes now what are they going to do when here Westjet redraws the landscape and throws some 20 or so percent more seats into the total mix, all in one fell swoop. It can't look good for Jetsgo , even though what they're doing currently seems to be kind of loss-leader connection traffic for the route anyway.


Huge Westjet newsday overall though -- today they announce they're "reaching the summit" of Canadian domestic air travel service (such as it is anyway, heh  Smile ) I wish 'em well!



P.S. Also great that YUL-YWG nonstops are to be inaugurated, as part of all this too. Good news and well ahead of summertime, to boot.


 
yegbey01
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:55 am

CanadaEh....

I travel regularly from YYZ to YEG (about 20 times a year) . I can always get the same price if not cheaper on AC than WestJet. Here's what I get from AC: Food, entertainment, access to lounge, Aeroplan Miles, better schedule.

Why would I want to switch to WestJet...

WestJet wants to compete here in the East, but their strategy just isn't going to work. The market is saturated given how cheap airfares are.

Hamilton offers lower cost structure, quicker turnaround time and a niche market. WestJet just pissed off a significant portion of the Hamilton catchment area.
 
fly_yhm
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:38 am

This just in Westjet orders A330s to begin transatlantic operations. This for next year Also just in Westjet also buys out Canjet.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
yegbey01
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:40 am

Yhm...
where did you get that from???/
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:47 am

Yegbey01-- Here's what I get from AC: Food, entertainment, access to lounge, Aeroplan Miles, better schedule.

YYZ T1New will probably be a leveler, when it comes to airport infrastructure that WS gets to make use of versus what AC gets --the place is so huge that pretty much anybody that flies in there stands to benefit from the faciilites. As for IFE Westjet isn't going to be able to be touched by anybody in Canadian skies, period, in a few months' time. Food options, okay, that's about the only real downside to flying Westjet, especially on medium and longhaul (but then hey, make or buy a sandwich to bring aboard, okay no silverware or cups, plates and trays to play with and be somewhat more elegant using, but then no real biggie, especially if the electronic form of IFE is great instead  Smile

Plan points, okay for anybody with tons of Aéroplan points already, AC does make a whole lot of sense over Westjet.


WestJet wants to compete here in the East, but their strategy just isn't going to work. The market is saturated given how cheap airfares are.

It's a risk, all right, no question about it-- today's announcement is one of the biggest in their entire history. Maybe even THE biggest. Sure going to be interesting to see the fireworks that come from this on the 'Rapidair' circuit (YUL/YOW-YYZ). I think they'll be okay, though I do worry now more than ever about how Jetsgo's going to do .


Hamilton offers lower cost structure, quicker turnaround time and a niche market.

Too small a niche for YUL . O &D market for the Niagara peninsula is probably 2 737s a week, 3 in summertime. On the whole, not that much at all and probably not worth WestJet's while given YYZ is so close by and SO much more O&D as well as now even Westjet-connection-alluring instead. Even same-plane service too, with the new sked--their new YUL-YYZ flights in the morning go on to Winnipeg, Thunder Bay, Calgary, even Vancouver, with just one YYZ stop in-between. Sunday service even one-stop same-plane to Saskatoon from YUL -- two-stops to Victoria  Smile

But for YOW, yeah it is real sad that they're axe-ing everything here. Though I do have to think it's just temporary -- and let's face it, YHM if it is so great and handy a YYZ alternative then it should be able to get by with other interested parties in Canada besides just Westjet who are not by any means closing down there altogether, as has been pointed out already here. Plus there remains the issue of YHM getting jetbridges to be a true 'all season, all weather" YYZ bypass -- I guess in another year or so some plans will be set in motion to address this by the airport Admin and local community interests.

WestJet just pissed off a significant portion of the Hamilton catchment area.

It's true it's kind of a black day for Niagara Peninsula air travelers, however I think they --and the airport-- will still be all right in any event. YHM is still going to have a lot of Westjet flights, especially considering the size of its catchment area . And let's face it the routes it's losing outright, with the exception of YOW-YHM, it can probably get by with not having anyway, especially since daily nonstop service to YHZ, YQM, YEG, YYC is going to be preserved (according to Westjet website info, anyway). Not too shabby at all.
 
C-GRYK
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:49 am

Fly_yhm,
And the point of that was???

On topic, I think it's odd to see WS shrinking at YHM. They announced service there in 2000 with quite a bit of hype. I was under the impression they were in YHM for the long haul. Oh well I guess market forces dictate the change of focus. Good luck Westjet! They will give AC a run for their money that's for sure.

Jeremy

PS. I'm wondering what's gonna happen with AC's proposed YHM-YUL flights now? (rhetorical question... no response needed  Laugh out loud)

[Edited 2004-01-14 22:50:36]

[Edited 2004-01-14 22:51:09]
Think before you type!
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:53 am

Yegbey01--Yhm...
where did you get that from???


C'mon. It's a black day for the YHM community. Only natural there'd be some disappointment even cynicism, over today's news, as it does look like kinda a betrayal of sorts from a YHM perspective.

Even with all the cutbacks though they're still going to have --with the exception of YOW service which I really think should be reinstated-- quite good service levels indeed, given the size of the catchment market.
 
spyderz
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RE: Air Canada To Santiago, What A/C?

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:36 am

What a debacle for both Hamilton and Toronto airports. With reduction in Westjet service at Hamilton, I think the question of terminal expansion is put in serious jeoporady. It is difficult for investors to put new money into a terminal when the largest tennant is reducing flights. The question of YHM trans-border flights is also not looking good. As for YYZ, the entire design of T1-New was to be a hub for Air Canada. Terminal designs were modified to allow convenient hubbing at YYZ for Air Canada, and this raised design and engineering costs significantly. With Westjet using T1-New, it appears the terminal is being used differently from what it was designed for. GTAA will claim that the terminal was built for O&D passengers, yet the piers were specially integrated to allow hubbing. For YYZ this is by no means a disaster like in YHM, but its a bit of a shame that such a mega-terminal will not be used as it was intended, sorta like Terminal 3 for Canadian Airlines.
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:14 am

Spyderz-- With Westjet using T1-New, it appears the terminal is being used differently from what it was designed for. GTAA will claim that the terminal was built for O&D passengers, yet the piers were specially integrated to allow hubbing.

Well it's only natural that AC gets the prime real-estate wherever in Canada they fly, really. Even if it's not always --or even is often not-- desireable for the littler guys Though it's good at least that Westjet will be there "right from the outset", so maybe that puts them at a bit less of a disadvantage than otherwise. Hope so, anyway.

Plus when it comes to "terminal being used differently from what it was designed for", is there anything more glaring in that department in Canada than YUL  Smile Still a little more than a year away before the International facilities are going to be any good at all. And the domestic side, lol, a bit cruddy in general and for everybody --AC check-in is actually even probably the worst since the lineup space alloted to it way up front with the original 40+ year old design is woefully inadequate. Situation may even continue that way for another two or three years or so, too, though there is talk of pushing back those AC check-in desks sometime sooner. Wouldn't hold my breath about that one though, lol.

And it's going to be real interesting to see what YUL gates Westjet gets for all those new flights, especially the YYZ shuttles since the past year they've been marooned out at the old aeroquay , with tunnel and all, at Gates 37 and 39 along with the likes of Jetsgo and Canjet. Talk about not-very-accomodating digs compared to AC! ( which hogs pretty much all of the domestic pier and will have turf rights on the brand-new gates 47-49 and their boarding lounges along the airside facade of the main terminal building as well.)


As for YHM and the bid to get terminal upgrade work --whether just jetbridges or way more than that-- and transborder sked service, etc, yeah it's going to be tough sledding at least for a little while, anyway. Still though, Toronto's way too huge a market for YHM to every really shrink from the role it has now -- with no Pickering airport or anything and Buttonville still being basically GA-grade, Toronto has to have some kind of contingency alternative nearby, and of course YHM is it. So the airport'll be okay, even if today is a sad today for its fans and users and business interests and so on.
 
Dash8King
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 8:27 am

AC cheaper then Westjet? I think not. The only fares that match WJ are Tango fares and that takes up what 10% of the plane?
 
fly_yhm
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:29 am

C-GRYK
The point of my sarcasm earlier was exactly that sarcasm I repeat it was sarcasm and I know I didn't spell it right.

Anyway I think this will have a damper on the terminal expansion unless HAA can find another carrier to fill in the gaps(apparently in talks already with a handful of carriers wanting to leave YYZ due to airport fees too high(apparently except for Westjet) Well I was mad at first but I don't really care anymore because it could have been worse and could also open up better options from a customer point of view and from a spotting point of view.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
CanadaEH
Topic Author
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:17 am

To end all speculation, there is a big reason that Westjet moved operations to YYZ - capacity.

Back in 2000, Westjet had plans to expand its presence at YHM. Discussions took place between the airline and the HAA about Westjet's future growth and what YHM could do to accommodate them. The HAA proposed and designed a terminal with 14 gates - a design which Westjet supported, and it was understood that the terminal would be constructed in time to meet Westjet's needs down the road.

A year passed by and the airport hadn't even begun construction. Around this time, Westjet started operations to YYZ. Since the HAA hadn't started construction on the new terminal yet (and perhaps due to changes in the market?), Westjet let them know that they only needed 7 gates. Shocked, the HAA had to redo its design of the terminal and came up with a new design with 7 gates - again, a design that Westjet supported. A year passed, and again - the HAA hadn't started construction on the new terminal yet.

One can assume that the Hamilton Airport Authority brought this move on themselves. If Westjet had plans (years ago?) to rapidly expand in the east during 2004 (and were under the impression that a terminal would be available in YHM to accommodate the growth), these plans were probably not reversible. With no more room to expand in YHM (thanks to the HAA), Westjet probably had no other choice but to move to YYZ.

Did Westjet get a sweet deal by the GTAA? Who knows. We can speculate all we want but we're never going to hear the right answer. From day one, Westjet has had very successful operations in/out of YYZ, and any growth will continue that trend. Not only are we adding more flights in YYZ, we're moving into TNew! How cool is that?

We all need to put this in perspective - Westjet is expanding in Canada's largest city, and YHM is still a city in which Westjet flies to, albeit with a lot less flights. It's a shame that service is being dropped in YHM, but the bottom line is that the airline industry is a business. If we aren't making money on routes such as YHM-YUL/YOW then I'd expect my company, a company in which I have a vested interest in, to make the right decision and re-deploy the aircraft on routes which make money. Don't like my reason? Look at Air Canada - they're a perfect example of how to operate an airline by flying on routes that don't make money.

Nobody is saying that we aren't going to be adding more flights to YHM in the future, either. If a terminal is built and the route makes financial sense, I'm sure we'll do it. After all, we still have a hangar in Hamilton that isn't going anywhere. I think the ball is in the HAA's court - play ball, build a terminal and the game is on, or hold it and end the game altogether.

-----
YEGBEY01:

I travel regularly from YYZ to YEG (about 20 times a year) . I can always get the same price if not cheaper on AC than WestJet. Here's what I get from AC: Food, entertainment, access to lounge, Aeroplan Miles, better schedule.
Why would I want to switch to WestJet...


You have the right to choose what airline you want to fly on, and if you feel that Air Canada is the better choice that's perfectly fine. If my dad has to fly on business and AC offers the same fare (or slightly higher) than WJ, he'll fly AC just for the Aeroplan points. I'm not holding a gun to his head telling him to fly WJ - even though he gets a great fare through me, an employee.  Smile

WestJet wants to compete here in the East, but their strategy just isn't going to work. The market is saturated given how cheap airfares are.

Westjet's strategy has worked for seven years and with the addition of LiveTV, improved legroom, leather seats, and more convenient schedules - they'll have even more to offer in the years to come. Sure the market is saturated with cheap fares, but how is that going to hurt Westjet? I think Jetsgo is the airline that's going to be hurting when the dust settles..
EH.
 
CanadaEH
Topic Author
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:52 am

Westjet share's are up $1.77 as of 14:48 PST. Apparently the investing community believes in WJ...  Smile
EH.
 
behramjee
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Fri Jan 16, 2004 8:10 am

If West Jet really wants to hurt AC then I advise them to install PTVs in all its B 737-700s especially those flying trans-continental flights from YYZ/YUL/HAM to YVR-CALG-EDM etc as this will provide them with a HUGE COMPETITIVE EDGE.

Yes I know that theyre a low cost airline following SOUTHWESTs footsteps etc etc...but think about it...even if they increase their fares by $ 20 per route but aggressively market the fact that theyre the first Canadian airline to offer TV in every seat free of cost thus reducing boredom especially on those 3-5 hr flights then they will get the huge pax# and severly hurt ACs mkt share domestically.
 
yhu
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:04 am

Eh....but they already announced that they are adding PTV's to their aircraft.

Dave
 
CanadaEH
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:30 am

Like YHU said, we've already announced that we're installing BellExpressVu LiveTV in all of our 737-700's. We were supposed to start installing it back in November, but certification has been a problem and should start within a month.
EH.
 
mel
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:37 pm

On a side note, Westjet just took delivery of another new -700 today C-FWSF... arrived from BFI.
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Whiteguy
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:56 am

Great more competition in YYZ. Looks like WJ is starting the battle, lets hope Clive is man enough about it when AC starts fighting back and doesn't run to the competition bureau and whine!!
 
behramjee
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:05 am

Ok I never knew that WJ had already announced that theyre having tvs installed in their B 737-700s...v v v wise and this now provides them with an extra competitive edge over AC and JETSGO.

 
robsawatsky
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:31 am

"Great more competition in YYZ. Looks like WJ is starting the battle, lets hope Clive is man enough about it when AC starts fighting back and doesn't run to the competition bureau and whine!! "

Clive runs a business with what appears to be a well thought out business plan. If he can make use of the Competition Bureau to protect his business plan he will - all business, nothing to do with being a man. This isn't about arm-wrestling after all.
 
Goose
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:51 am

Great more competition in YYZ. Looks like WJ is starting the battle, lets hope Clive is man enough about it when AC starts fighting back and doesn't run to the competition bureau and whine!!

Well, I think the move was timed so that it corresponded with two things - the expansion of WS service in the East, and AC exiting creditor protection in... what? Just a few months from now, right?

Air Canada won't be able to slash-and-burn fares to undercut WS once they're out of creditor protection, like they supposedly have been doing for a few months now. Sure, they'll probably have a seat sale or something... but I don't think they'll have the freedom of movement to cut its seat price way below cost, as they've done in the past, to undercut the competition.

But you're right, if Air Canada engages in predatory pricing practices against WS out of YYZ, Clive & Co. will likely go to the Competition Bureau.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
CanadaEH
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 10:02 am

That's interesting, timing the move around the same time AC is supposed to exit bankruptcy protection. I never thought about that but it makes perfectly good sense.

Shiela Copps is now sticking her fat head into this switch asking for a public inquiry into the possibility that WJ recieved a "sweetheart" deal to switch operations to YYZ. Note: Westjet is a private, publicly traded company; therefore a public inquiry is not valid. The following is from the Hamilton Spectator:

'Sweetheart' WestJet deal?; Copps's call for public inquiry into pullout fuels argument for greater transparency in how airports spend fees

Airline experts say Sheila Copps has virtually no chance of getting a public inquiry into the operation of federal airports, but she's raising some good questions.

The Hamilton East MP has called for an inquiry or investigation by the federal competition bureau into her allegations the Greater Toronto Airports Authority used money from a special airport construction fee to underwrite a "sweetheart" deal that lured WestJet Airlines away from Hamilton.

Both WestJet and GTAA have flatly denied the airline is getting a special deal to move its eastern hub and 60 per cent of the flights that once departed from Hamilton.

Calgary-based airline industry analyst Rick Erickson, and the transportation critics of the NDP and Progressive Conservative parties, agree Copps raises a valid question about a lack of accountability for how such airport improvement fees are actually spent.

"She's right about a lack of transparency in how those fees are set and where the money goes," Erickson said.

"It's hard to say if Toronto used that money to cut a deal with WestJet. We won't ever know for sure."

"She may be onto something here because she has been on the inside and knows what's happening," said Rex Barnes, PC transport critic, adding the same problem has been experienced in Newfoundland where Gander airport has been squeezing its smaller competitors to the edge of extinction.

Every airline ticket sold for a departure from Toronto includes a $12 "airport improvement fee" that is supposed to finance new terminals and other building projects. Across the country, the fees raised $230 million last year for airports owned by the federal government.

By not requiring airports to openly account for how that money is used, Copps said, the federal government is using public policy to benefit airports it owns at the expense of smaller competitors such as Hamilton.

Copps argues WestJet's move must have been enticed because "no other explanation makes sense."

WestJet's decision to come to Hamilton cited the sharply lower costs of operating here compared to Toronto -- lower costs that were a critical part of the airline's discount fare model. Just more than three years later, however, when Toronto costs have risen sharply, it's suddenly viable for WestJet to operate there.

"We have to make sure that none of that money is being used for enticements, Copps said. "Why would WestJet make the move unless there were other incentives being offered? There's something more to this story."

Bev Dejarlais, NDP transport critic, agreed the WestJet move appears counter to everything the company had said.

"It obviously wasn't just cost of operation that was keeping them in Hamilton if they're moving now," she said.

"There is a need for some kind of review because we have to ensure there hasn't been some kind of sweetheart deal."

In another development yesterday, Hamilton Mayor Larry Di Ianni and economic development committee chairman Bill Kelly met with officials of TradePort International Corp. which runs the city-owned airport, including new president Richard Koroscil, to discuss responses to the WestJet pullout.

Afterward, Di Ianni said the city remains committed to the airport and the private management contract, although there may be room for some increased joint marketing efforts and for the city to back efforts to attract more airlines to the field.

"I think the airport management understands that we can't put all of our eggs in one carrier's basket," he said. "It's important that we attract a number of carriers." Kelly added the loss of most of WestJet's service doesn't mean Hamilton should give up its dreams of a passenger airport.

"The success WestJet has enjoyed I'm certain has raised the eyebrows of the other carriers and shown that Munro is a viable passenger airport," he said. "This doesn't change our long-term plans for the airport."


And on a side note, Fedex is moving its operations from YHM to YYZ.
EH.
 
Goose
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 11:51 am

Well, if the HAA did drag its ass in building a new pax terminal, they really brought WS' move on themselves.

I'm just curious to know if the HAA thought it was acceptable that pax would have to walk across the ramp to their flights, with wind, snow and ice (as of this post, it's -18 C in YHM) while every other hub in WS' system has the luxury of jetways?

Not to mention the efficiency factor.....

Shiela Copps' desire to grab headlines in lieu of an election race is really a non-issue. She wants to project an image of concern for her constituents, and whether it's honest concern or not.... if the HAA has been persuing Federal funding for the pax terminal there, she should full well know the reasons why WS moved. Pointing fingers and accusations at the GTAA doesn't do anything to bring WS flights back to YHM. Calling an inquiry won't bring WS back, either.

You're right, CanadaEH, WestJet is a publicly traded company.... but if no-one is going to state the real reason behind WestJet's move from YHM to YYZ (capacity, and market) then WestJet might find a public inquiry to its advantage. It can use it as a forum to state the delays on the YHM pax terminal and the larger market in YYZ as its reasons for moving. Whether the GTAA sweetened the deal with cheaper gate slots, or reduced fees, would really be secondary, in a business sense.

That would settle the issue. And it might light a fire under the YHM terminal project.....

.... or might not. Governments work in mysterious ways....
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
fly_yhm
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:32 pm

Your all right most of the reason for the move is because of the HAA lack of movement on the construction side. They are now talking aobut not building at all which I think would just be another boneheaded move to ad the this. Only time will tell. BTW Im a YHMer but I am going to be flying westjet out of YYZ in 2 weeks. not by choice though they Westjet flights from YHM were full.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
yegbey01
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:59 pm

All of you Hamilton residents... just abandon Westjet. AC is the better choice.
 
Goose
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:34 pm

All of you Hamilton residents... just abandon Westjet. AC is the better choice.

Uhm, considering that Air Canada mainline, nor any of their subsidiaries or partners fly to or from Hamilton at all, that may be a tall order.

As for being the better choice... hrm, well, aside from your personal reasons and your opinion that WS offers "shit service," I fail to see your rationale. But, as I said, they are your personal reasons..... I'm just curious how often do you fly WestJet?

As for YHM pax terminal construction to be dropped completely.... well, you're right FlyYHM, that wouldn't be the best way to entice WS to add more frequencies to YHM instead of YYZ, nor would it be much attraction to any other carrier - JetsGo, CanJet, even Air Canada - to open up routes to YHM, either.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
yegbey01
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:38 pm

I used to live out west (in Edmonton) and I flew WestJet regularly to YYC. It was a short hop.

Last time I flew WestJet, was from YYZ to YEG. Most boaring 4 hour flight I have ever been on. If it wasn't for the 79 dollar ticket.. they wouldn't have gotten my business.

I have an Elite status with Air canada and I like the perks. What is WestJet goint to offer regular travellers????
 
yhu
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:46 pm

"What is WestJet goint to offer regular travellers????"

TV's on the backs of the seats? AC doesn't offer that.

Dave
 
yegbey01
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:10 pm

You have to pay to have access to these TV's right?
 
captaingomes
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:45 pm

I don't think anything's been determined regarding whether the live TV will be free, but indications are that it will be free for all users. If you want to buy headseats though, that will cost some money.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
 
Mark_D.
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:00 pm

Yegbey,

you sound a bit eager here, to maybe cast some aspersions on Westjet or something like that. Westjet may not be "Intercontinental First Class" in service or perks department, however on the other hand it's not their mission to be (or pricing structure either, for that matter). If you personally were none too impressed with that YYZ-YEG flight a little while ago, then make subsequent flying decisions accordingly, no problemo.

From what I understand Westjet has a generally-very-good product value. Almost no food offered seems to be a bit of a downer on longer flights, but even there that seems to maybe apply more to older or more seasoned travelers who may be used to 'the good ole days' of silverware and full complimentary meal (and multiple snack) service, or who may just be a bit more finicky generally. Not like the young-twenty-something and college-age set who may hop on the the plane with their homemade 'sandwich dinners-to-go', and their PDAs or game-downloaded cellphones or MP3 players or laptops for IFE as well, and don't think twice about any of this at all.
 
Dash8King
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:55 pm

All of you Hamilton residents... just abandon Westjet. AC is the better choice.

Like what are you ten? Abandoning the only scheduled passenger service would just eliminate it completely. Your a genius!


I have an Elite status with Air Canada and I like the perks. What is WestJet goint to offer regular travelers????


Westjet offers cheap service so you can fly more often. You can also collect Air Miles Reward Miles. If you dislike this boring airline that is fine, but when you spout out garbage like that it makes you look pretty immature.
 
lymanm
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:51 pm

If I wanted to watch TV, I'd stay home and do it. The seat pitch is better than any airline. That being said, I'd love to have the new EK A340-500 First class seats in my living room!

AC will eventually (post CCAA) have to do something to address this perk that WJ has installed. Does the technology exist & and is it cheap enough to install highspeed net access in their fleet? Ala Boeing ConeXion or whatever it's called...? If so, AC would lure back many people who are/will be going over to WJ because of the live TV. Especially the business travellers...
buhh bye
 
Goose
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:11 pm

P.S. IF ANYONE KNOWS FORSURE ABOUT THE 73'S WITH THE LEATHER SEATS ARE THEY OLD AMERICAN AIRLINES AIRCRAFT???

No, the leather seats were installed on all the WestJet's 737-700s - which were ordered new from Boeing.

As for the PTV.... well, there will be a slot for a credit card in the unit itself, but I've heard WS people talk about the IFE being free-of-charge for at least the first bit. If WS does ever decide to charge a fee to use the IFE, it'll be nominal - $2 or something like that, was what I was told.
"Talk to me, Goose..."
 
Goose
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RE: Westjet Announces A Tripling Of YYZ Service

Sun Jan 18, 2004 12:13 am

Lymanm .... well, I'm sure AC has thought of offering Internet on-board... but really, that'd only benefit folks who would use laptop computers - not a wide segment of leisure travellers, and the business folks aren't really WS' key market anyway. Besides, if AC went for on-board Internet, there's a good possibility that WS would follow suit with ConnXion- especially since WS has a good relationship with Boeing.

The PTVs on board are a exclusive contract with WestJet in Canada, which was signed with the owner of the technology.... so AC can't simply copy WS' IFE, even if they wanted to.
"Talk to me, Goose..."

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