myk
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 8:56 pm

Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:30 am

The question is simple, why are there no low cost airlines travelling between the UK, Germany or France and the US / Canada ??
 
bongo
Posts: 1783
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2003 5:32 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:38 am

Would be nice... That would make Europe more reachable for me  Big grin
MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
 
richardw
Posts: 3138
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:45 am

There is, at £199 LON-NYC at the moment on BA, now that is what I would call great value for money.
 
Danny
Posts: 3714
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:44 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:53 am

Becasue there is no free market on transatlantic flights.
 
Dtw757
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:05 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:56 am

Didn't Peoples Express try low cost transatlantic?
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AlekToronto
Posts: 321
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 7:42 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:01 am

There is no need to a low cost airline..there already is a lot of competition on the Transatlantic runs..in low season i have seen $199 JFK to LHR..how cheap do you want it? People seem to forget that an Airline is a business and it costs a lot of money to fly a plane/crew to/from Europe.
There of course a lot of government regulations along the way and if any low cost airline started up (a la LAKER Air) they would surely be killed by BA, LH, AF, etc...
 
GBOAC
Posts: 213
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:48 pm

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 am

Who the hell would want to spend 10hrs doing something like LHR-SFO with 500 other people, in a 29" pitch seat which doesn't recline, with no IFE and having to pay for all the drinks and food along the way?!?

Different type of market, different product expectations.

There are some great value fares about all year round and when the sales are on, well...as mentioned above £199 LHR-JFK (on a full-service carrier) is pretty cheap in my book!

Phil
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2769
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:34 pm

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:19 am

It's only a matter of time...look at AA's single-class 757 "experiment" for this summer: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040114/daw001_1.html
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
myk
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:04 am

Don't forget that Airlib had their 90€ ticket for CDG-PTP
 
airways6max
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:22 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 2:21 am

That market is pretty thoroughly dominated by the majors--AA, UA, BA, VS. Also, slots at airports such as Heathrow are very, very limited. Don't forget, there WAS an LCC that crossed the Atlantic--Sir Freddie Laker's Skytrain, but it went bust when the other airlines undercut its fares.
 
dmerinop
Posts: 156
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 5:19 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:46 am

Yeh I agree with GBOAC,

Personally I think it´s very difficult and tiring a LHR-LAX flight on coach so... No way on a LCC!!! At least in major airlines I get free drinks, meal, audio, and meaby IFE so that would do for the moment.

Dani
 
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ramprat74
Posts: 1328
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:11 am

Didn't Peoples Express try low cost transatlantic?

Yes they did. They flew EWR-LGW for $149.00 one-way. You had to buy your food though. But for that price who cares.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:25 am

This is one of the hardest areas for the LCC's to compete! The LCC's rely on quick turns and keeping the planes being used and in the air. The International market is also at times just as low as what a LCC would charge, Jan to Mar BA from NYC to LON for roughly $199.00 before taxes is a pretty good deal, and at that rate the LCC's would be hard pressed to compete. Also for this distance people really look for the FF miles and upgrades, LCC's that operate a single aircraft type and all coach would again be hard pressed to compete. Also there are some options out there, MartinAir of Holland for one.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
gilesdavies
Posts: 2274
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:51 pm

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:45 am

There was plans for an airline back in 2002 to launch a low cost carrier from London Luton to Portsmouth (USA) and another US destination. (I can't remember the name for the life of me - Can anyone help?)

At the time this received a lot a press coverage and the company released a very amatuerish website givng details of there plans. I remember them saying they would use 767-300 in an all economy configeration. They said they choose Luton because it was at the time the main UK base for easyJet and would allow people to connect.

From the moment they announced this there was many sceptics and both Luton Airport and the Civil Aviation Authority both said the airline hadn't spoke to them about their plans and Luton Airports runway would struggle to cope with 767-300's on Trans Atlantic routes due to it's length.

Nothing ever materialised.

-----------------------------

easyJet have registered the trade name "easyAtlantic" back in 2002 and there was rumours that easyJet may launch a Trans Atlantic subsidary but nothing has ever materialised. But you never know!
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:51 pm

All offers for transatlantic fares are reasonable.

Look at some of the current fares offerd by British Airways:-

All prices are return and include all taxes and surcharges.

Flights from London Heathrow to:

+ New York (JFK and EWR) from GBP199
+ Philadelphia from GBP219
+ Washington Dulles from 219
+ Baltimore from GBP219
+ Boston from GBP219
+ Chicago from GBP269
+ Detroit from GBP269
+ San Francisco from GBP269
+ Los Angeles from GBP269
+ Miami from GBP269
+ Seattle from GBP279
+ Phoenix from GBP279
+ Houston from GBP281
+ Denver from GBP299

Flights from London Gatwick to:

+ Atlanta from GBP219
+ Tampa from GBP279
+ Dallas from GBP279
+ Orlando from GBP289
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
CO737800
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:53 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:53 pm

Canada has a few Air Transat and Zoom and I think in the summer months HMY
 
ThreeWests
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 4:00 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:58 pm

I have heard Iceland Air referred to as the trans-Atlantic "low fare airline" - they have low fares and quick turns at their KEF hub - I think this qualifies.
If you can read this your flying too close
 
iflyatldl
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:41 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:23 pm

Does anyone remember Sir Freddie Laker ? He's the one who started it all. Before I went to work for DL, I once flew Sir Freddie eiither EWR or JFK(I can't remeber)-LGW for 350.00 round trip. He even had OAK-LGW flights that competed with WO. A long time ago in the late '70's.  Smile Of course, then and now, there's Icelandair.  Smile
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
Guest

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:25 pm

You're pointing out off-peak transatlantic fares. An average fare between North America and Europe is greater than $1000 during the summer...

Didn't ATA try seasonal transatlantic service at one point?
 
sevenair
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:29 pm

What about flyZOOM.com. They actually market their product as a low cost transatlantic service. Mainly to Canada though.
 
RyanairA320
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:52 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Thu Jan 15, 2004 10:43 pm



What about Aer Lingus?

Their fares can sometimes seem high when compared to low cost airlines like Ryanair, but they are extremely cheap when it comes to Transatlantic flights. I recently priced

Dub-Washington 220 euro which is £152 and $275 return

Dub-Los Angeles 285 euro which is £197 and $360 return

The above flights were priced on and include all taxes and charges. To me that's what I call a cheap Transatlantic flight.


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Ryanair 'The Low Fares Airline' and now also 'The On-time Airline'
 
richardw
Posts: 3138
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:36 am

Crew stay over costs away from base do go against traditional low cost principles, which could be a major factor.

Also the shortest average flight time being about 7 hours doesn't fit perfectly well into the optimum sectors per 24 hours, the no of sectors would have to be optimised over a longer period.

The low cost business plan seems to fit short haul flights much better.
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Fri Jan 16, 2004 3:42 am

I think you have the right idea, GBOAC. Nobody wants to fly on such long voyages with minimal amounts of comfort. Of course, if I were able to catch a nice WN flight on over to Paris for $89, I would probably just deal with the fat lady beside me and the screaming babies echoing in a steel cabin.  Big thumbs up

Of course, CO is going to start a ERJ service for transatlantic flights. That might be a nice newcomer to the sea-sprinting crowd.

Cheers!

[Edited 2004-01-15 19:47:32]
Crye me a river
 
GBOAC
Posts: 213
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 8:48 pm

RE: Why No Transatlantic Low-cost

Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:00 pm

Usnseallt82 - Nobody wants to fly. To be honest, I'm not saying nobody would do it - in fact, I think there probably are enough people who would suffer it (and complain, yet keep coming back) if it were available - a bargain is a bargain after all. But I'm not one of them. Even in Europe now I can nearly always find a very good fare on BA since they cut their shorthaul prices so don't have to use a LCC. BA just 'feels' better! Where there is a difference in price, I'm willing to pay £10s more for that. Scaled up to longhaul, a few £100s more.

In fact, I hope a transatlantic LCC never happens...lest it suddenly becomes company policy  Big grin

Phil