DIA
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South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:35 am

Just wondering if anybody has updates on the details on SAA's future plans for the U.S.

What I know, with my questions:
-SAA plans on serving U.S. cities with A346 (nonstop each way from JHN)(and, which cities do they serve currenly besides NYC and ATL?)
-Will possibly join SkyTeam (have they yet?)
-If they join SkyTeam, they'll probably switch from serving JFK to EWR (for the connections with Continental, Delta, and NWA.
-I understand they will keep just a few 744s for years to come to serve London? This will occur, even though they claim the A346 will be their Flagship. So they will still fly 744s for years after they shed the last 737NGs around 2010 (when the 737NGs leases end). . .interesting.
-Is SAA giving the A380 even a glance?

On a side note, SAA revealed they chose the A340 series due to its better high and dry performance. They claimed it was much better than the 777's performance. That's fine. . .but it makes me wonder. . .UA's 777 service performance numbers in/out of DIA apparently sparkles when it comes to performance levels (according to UA). And we're definately high and dry.

Anybody?
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 1:12 am

Hi,

here's what I know and/or remember...

SAA plans on serving U.S. cities with A346 (nonstop each way from JNB)
At least the flights to/from NYC won't be nonstop both ways - not sure about ATL.

(and, which cities do they serve currenly besides NYC and ATL?)
Not sure if they still stop in FLL on the way to ATL...

Will possibly join SkyTeam (have they yet?)
They haven't yet, in future they might - then again, they might not... nobody really knows at the moment.

If they join SkyTeam, they'll probably switch from serving JFK to EWR (for the connections with Continental, Delta, and NWA.
See previous response...

I understand they will keep just a few 744s for years to come to serve London?
As far as I know, this is the case.

This will occur, even though they claim the A346 will be their Flagship.
Haven't heard that one yet - actually, I hadn't heard that SAA "declares" any of it's planes it's "flagship"...

So they will still fly 744s for years after they shed the last 737NGs around 2010 (when the 737NGs leases end). . .interesting.
Might happen...

Is SAA giving the A380 even a glance?
Plain and simply: yes (which also might influence the answer to the previous point).

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
Jaws707
Posts: 667
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 10:45 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:23 am

I would imagine that SAA can easily support the use of 4-6 A380's. Mainly for routes to LHR, ATL, and if they did join Sky team to EWR.
 
myk
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 8:56 pm

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:31 am

I heard that LH wants South African in Star Alliance.
 
kaitak
Posts: 8952
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:46 am

I heard that SAA was considering Dublin as a possible destination, possibly via MAN, most likely with 340s, but to CPT, not JNB.

EI had considered the route strongly, but crew disagreements (about the number of pilots and the layover in CPT) caused that to be put on ice.
 
trey
Posts: 231
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 1999 11:28 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:50 am

Last time I was down there (about 7 months) i noticed there are 5 or 6 747's to LHR every night, so i would imagine there is a potential market for the A380 from JNB.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:39 am

SAA revealed they chose the A340 series due to its better high and dry performance. They claimed it was much better than the 777's performance

Uh, no... they chose it because Airbus was desperate to get rid of SR's outstanding A346s and gave SA a killer price for them.

SA's original intention was to lease Trent892-powered 772ER from DL.



UA's 777 service performance numbers in/out of DIA apparently sparkles when it comes to performance levels

...maybe now that it has a 16,000ft runway.

Before that, UA had trouble getting their 772ERs out of SA - Colorado AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN for their shortlived SA - Colorado AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN-FRA. They had to keep pushing the departure time later and later and later before actually launching it...
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
SA7700
Posts: 2940
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:35 am

SAA only serves ATL and JFK in the USA. FLL was dropped after 9/11.


ATL & JFK routes will be serviced in the same way as before. Currently it seems as if ATL will be getting the A346 and JFK the A343E.

JNB/ATL - SA209 via CPT and SID (Days: 3,5,7)
JNB/ATL - SA211 via SID (Days: 1,2,4,6)

ATL/JNB - SA212 Non-stop (Days: 1,3,5,7)
ATL/JNB - SA210 via CPT (Days: 2,4,6)


JNB/JFK - SA203 via DKR (Daily)

JFK/JNB - SA204 via DKR (Days: 1,3,7)
JFK/JNB - SA202 Non-stop (Days 2,4,5,6)


There are always lots of rumours floating around regarding destinations. To name a few: Beijing as a new one. Possibly re-opening routes to SYD & AMS. And so forth. We can speculate as much as we would like to.....
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
5NEOO
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:16 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:43 am

SA's original intention was to lease Trent892-powered 772ER from DL.

Could you provide a link that proves this?
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!
 
Moolies
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:59 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:51 am

Dl sent a 722 to johannesburg but it blew an engine.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 5:56 am

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRheft/FRH0101/FR0101g.htm

This one glosses over the cancellation of their original 772ER "order" and their initial openess to opping A340 & 777 in tandem.

If you'd like greater detail, feel free to search for it yourself.

Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
User avatar
Crosswind
Posts: 2536
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2000 4:34 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:02 am

ConcordeBoy;
Some quite interesting data from SAA regarding break-even loadfactors (p15) and trip costs vs seat costs (p24) Comparisons for both sets of data are for the following types:
747SP/747-200/747-300/747-400/777-200/777-300ER/A330-200/A340-300/A340-500/A340-600

The data doesnt show Airbus to be a clear winner, especially when looking at seat cost vs trip cost.

What it does show that due to Johannesburg's location - not only hot and high, but also with signficant obstacle clearence issues - quads are at a distinct advantage over twins. And that isn't an Airbus bias - the A330-200 comes out an absolute stinker!

There was an article at the time, I believe in Flight International, (2001/2) citing performance as a most critical consideration for SAA in selecting their longhaul fleet. And due to the demands of JNB there are significant advantages in a quad - a quad in the event of an engine failure will almost always out-perform a twin with an engine out - and it is almost always that the engine-out scenario is the most limiting when calculating an aircraft's max takeoff performance under given conditions...

The file:
http://www.flysaa.com/about_saa/fleet_information/fleetrenewal.pdf

Word of warning:
The pdf file is LARGE (5.3mb) and has a lot of bar charts/maps, rather than in-depth written anaysis. It appears to have originated as a powerpoint persentation.

Credit goes to SAA201 for the link - I did type a lengthy reply at the time, but my internet connection hung-up as I hit post and I lost the data. I remember being annoyed!
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/761712

Shame the tread never took off - I never got round to re-typing my post. I suppose it will always be a fact of life of airliners.net that topics about the carpets on United aircraft being changed to a new shade of blue, the shortest flight from your airport and about the longest flight you've been on, will always generate the most replies  Confused  Confused

Regards
CROSSWIND
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:07 am

Much thanks Crosswind... though I did already have it, was quite generous of you  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
5NEOO
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:16 am

RE: South African Airways Future Plans/Questions

Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:11 am

Thanks for the article ConcordeBoy. I guess the 777 just wasn't a good fit for SAA.
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!

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