JohnJ
Topic Author
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:09 am

I read the post a few weeks back about the Memphis International Airport and was interested to see the number of people who thought the terminal is a dump. I'm originally from Memphis and remember the terminal fondly from when I was a kid - it was a real state-of-the-art facility in the late 1970s. Times have changed, though, and the airport is showing its age rather badly, I'm afraid.

Which brings me to my point. The fact that Memphis has a Northwest Airlines hub with nonstop service to Europe is a pretty amazing fact and something the city should hold on to with all its might. Not a tremendous amount of money has been invested in the terminal, though, since the A and C councourses were added in 1975. In the meantime, Memphis has built TWO sports arenas - the Pyramid Arena was built in the early 1990s and has turned out to be a white elephant, and now the new FedEx Forum, built as a requirement of the new Memphis NBA team, is nearing completion.

I'm curious as to how much more a completely new terminal with, say, 60-70 gates would cost vs. a 20,000 seat sports arena. With the FedEx hub being there, the airfield itself at Memphis is more than adequate; only the terminal needs replacement. I doubt Northwest Airlines would put money toward the terminal or even commit to staying there as a result of Memphis paying for it, which calls into question how much of a risk would be involved in this venture.
 
as739x
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:37 am

Not even in the same ballpark (no pun intended ). A new arena does not cost close to that of a new terminal, unless its a very basic terminal. Arena's have corp. sponsorship. FedEx forum...I wonder who put money into that? Unless NW puts money into a new terminal, MEM would dish out a lot of dough. I bet Memphis will pay maybe $75-100 million for FedEx Forum. A new terminal with 60-70 gates will cost (this is a guess ) nowadays easily over $500 million. There is a lot more behind the scene and underground work done with an airport terminal. The new International terminal at SFO (Opened 2 years ago ) was a little over $1 billion. It has 24-27 gates.
Hope this helps!
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
777gk
Posts: 1488
Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2000 3:04 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:47 am

A 60-70 gate terminal, along with all related infrastructure, transition cost, and all other associated charges would easily top $1 billion, perhaps closer to 1.2 or 1.3. Continental's Global Gateway Project at EWR including two garages, various roadway improvement, concourse connectors, a 20 gate International Concourse, and several other improvements cost roughly $800 million. In addition, I'm sure Memphis would not want to half-ass the place, so cosmetic and architectural costs would easily push such a project well over $1 billion dollars. Don't count on something so huge coming at any time soon over there, if ever.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24596
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:52 am

American's new 47 gate complex at MIA is costing over $1,3B and United's new 15 gate terminal at MIA is costing $825M.
a.
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2559
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:52 am

Agreed with the previous two posts. Big money, in fact, consider the following:

-Nice New jetways run about $2,000,000 each
-Land is expensive around an airport - especially a large caro airport like MEM, and you can't really tear down the current terminal to build the new one.
-There are significant costs for baggage systems, as they can't really be transferred to a new terminal.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
 
BOSugaDL
Posts: 239
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:39 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 2:54 am

All I know on the cost of terminals is the current reconstruction of Terminal A at BOS. It will be a 25 gates terminal for Delta and will cost over $500 million(Canadian) (http://www.mmm.ca/projdetail.asp?no=170) or nearly $400 million US. As compared to a sports arena, the Fleet Center in Boston (home of the Celtics and Bruins) cost about $160 million US in the early and mid 1990's. I hope this helps you out.

Here is a pic of the construction...The main terminal is on the right and the satellite terminal is in the center...You can also see the Fleet Center far off in the background. It is the light tan box-like structure with a rounded white roof

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Josep Duran - IBERIAN SPOTTERS

 
FlyPIJets
Posts: 832
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2003 3:32 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:18 am

RDU is going to replace Terminal C - the old AA hub - at a cost of $350 million. LAX is planning a $250 million renovation of the Tom Bradley international terminal.

Airport terminals aren't cheap. But, I do wonder if we are getting our money's worth. In the case of RDU, the new construction is being funded solely by revenues generated by the airport itself. That's some major bucks for any entity. I just hope they don't increase fees to pay for the construction to the point that fewer airlines find RDU attractive.
Rex Kramer: Get that finger out of your ear! You don't know where that finger's been!
 
airportplan
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:36 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:36 am

The new 41 gate terminal at Chicago Midway Airport which is scheduled to be completed in a couple of months will cost approximately 1 Billion Dollars.
Since it will be used primarily by LCC it is very utilitarian and not lavish at all. For example the City of Chicago wanted skylights over the main foodcourt. The two major carriers that backed the terminal bonds, ATA and Southwest balked at the cost and maintenance. There are no skylight over the food court.
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:58 am

The inherent problem of building a brand new terminal at a hub airport, especially one that is so dominated by single airline, such as NW and MEM, is the risk that the airport operator takes by undertaking such a huge project. PIT and the US debacle is a classic example of what will end up being a gigantic white elephant. Granted, it served a purpose for a while, but the good folks at Allegheny County are now getting screwed by US.

The terminal at MEM, while not one of the more aesthetically pleasing, is somewhat functional (considering the type of traffic that MEM has). According to MEM's master plan executive summary at http://www.mscaa.com, their future plans call for expansion and renovations to the main terminal.

Regarding who would pay for it: the airport operator would pay a portion of it, through it's capital expense budget (that money would be made up from future revenues, also general obligation and revenue bonds), and some sort of matching funding from the FAA's Airport Improvement Plan Program. Northwest would likely not fund it up front, but as a singatory lessor at MEM, would have input into the project.

Another US airport that has a brand new terminal under construction is RSW down in Fort Myers, FL. That terminal has a $386 million price tag on it. BTW, the cost of 27 jetways at RSW was contracted out at $10.4 million ($385,000 each).

Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
JohnJ
Topic Author
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:03 am

Yikes! There goes that argument. No way, nohow Memphis would undertake something approaching $1B at this point. Just a thought...

Anyway, interesting responses. Thanks for the input.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2001 8:04 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:21 am

As Tom touched on...

for an fortress airport of medium-traffic and equally low importance to a global carrier.... such an undertaking would be an enormous risk.

MEM has by far the lowest O&D of any major's hub in the country... generating much fewer such pax than even non-hubs such as TPA, MSY, SAN, etc.

Say MEM did go ahead and procede with a $500m+ terminal....
NW has allegedly "joked" that should a LoCo enter MEM, it'd kill the hub. Then where would MEM be?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
IBERIA747
Posts: 1648
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:43 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:31 am

I can´t tell about the cost of a new terminal, but the new terminals/runways that are under construction at Madrid-Barajas have a cost of more than 5 billion Euros (more than 6.1 billion dollars).
750,000 sq. meters (8.07 million sq. feet) of new terminals plus 2 new runways and a car parking building for 16,000 cars.
Those 5 billion euros have already been spent, and the work is about 80% complete...expect another billion. That´s a lot of money.
¡¡VIVA ESPAÑA!!
 
grrtvc
Posts: 188
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:15 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:49 am

$2 Mil for a JetBridge... Can I get that contract? I'll buy them from FMC from about $500,000, install them, and even through a full tank of gas.

New terminals have a lot of factors to consider when trying to develop a budget, ie is the land already owned by the airport, what kind of infrastructure already exists, and so on.

What's most amazing is the significant costs differences depending on what part of the world, what political group, and/or airlines are involved.

NW/Wayne County (DTW) built a new 99-gate terminal, including international operations, for around $1.3 bil and that included new infrastructure. ATL wants to build a new international terminal with something like 16 gates for about the same price.
 
twalives
Posts: 172
Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 9:35 pm

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 6:56 am

I bet Memphis will pay maybe $75-100 million for FedEx Forum.

Will the rest be privately funded? Not that I expect the Forum to reach anywhere near the cost of a terminal but $100 million sounds very low for a new stadium. Most domed stadiums begin around $400 million.
 
JohnJ
Topic Author
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:10 am

The FedEx Forum's price tag is $250 million. The Pyramid Arena in Memphis cost $65 million in the early 1990s. So that's over $300 million spent for arenas in Memphis in the last 15 or so years. Once the FedEx Forum opens, the Pyramid will generate very little revenue, but will still cost money to maintain. Oh, and there's a third arena, the Mid-South Coliseum, that's likewise seldom-used but must be maintained at taxpayers' expense.

I would be in favor of Memphis simply renovating the existing terminal vs. replacing it. I personally like the way the terminals look from the outside. The problem is that the 1963-era Concourse B used by Northwest is simply too narrow. Motorized carts can't even be used at MEM because of the narrow corridors. The more recent A and C concourses are much wider. But for Concourse B, it would be difficult to modify the existing buildings to have wider corridors. I fear the only solution there would be replacement.
 
Tom in NO
Posts: 6725
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 1999 10:10 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:24 am

John:
I just took a closer look at MEM's master plan. While it is true that concourse B could not be significantly widened, it could be widened a bit. Then, of course, there's another direction to build.....up. A second floor skywalk would help the traffic flow on B quite a bit.

Tom at MSY

PS: the observation seating areas above the ticket counters at MEM are among the best I've seen.
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
 
JohnJ
Topic Author
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2000 5:01 am

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:47 am

"PS: the observation seating areas above the ticket counters at MEM are among the best I've seen."

At one time you used to be able to walk outside the seating area for a short distance onto the roof of Concourse B, which had railings along the edge. Those days are long gone....
 
Guest

RE: Cost Of A New Airport Terminal

Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:29 am

NW's 97-gate terminal at DTW was built for $1.2 billion. However, the cost included things like a new parking garage, new roads, a fourth runway, relocation of wetlands to build a fourth runway, etc. So I guess it depends on where it's built.

- - -

United's new 15 gate terminal at MIA is costing $825M.

But it looks like they won't be needing it  Big grin.

- - -

As for MEM, its biggest selling point as a hub is its low costs. Renovations were planned, and even started, pre-9/11, but are on indefinite hold. NW opposes anything that will make their costs go up. And MEM probably wouldn't want to be in a situation like PIT, where the hub carrier could leave & nobody takes its place, leaving it with a terminal it can't pay for. Besides, MEM has an efficient design -- it just needs to be renovated IMO.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 777guy, AApilot2b, admanager, Arock21, atal17, b777erj145, babastud, Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], BoeingVista, dkny, dlphoenix, ERJ170, FlyHossD, FlyingJhawk, Google Adsense [Bot], hummingbird, ikolkyo, jeffh747, justplanesmart, legacyins, LX8626, Majestic-12 [Bot], Mikey711MN, NolaMD88fan, OB1504, PerfectGriffin, Qantas744er, qf15, questions, rufusmi, RWA380, soundmind and 248 guests