duke
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727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:31 pm

I remember about mid-winter 1993, I saw what I identified as a Lufthansa 727 in Toronto and it may not have been the only one I saw. Similarly, I saw a pic of a United Airlines 727 in London. Why would these airlines use the type over the Atlantic?

Can the -200 fly the Atlantic without refuelling?
 
paulc
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:39 pm

cannot explain the LH one but the United one was probably operating an internal flight in Europe. (Berlin) Pan-Am used to have a few 727 & 737 based for this purpose - it goes back to the days when Berlin was a divided city. When the Pan-Am trans atlantic routes were taken over by United they also got the european routes as well.

Wardair also used a 727 across the Atlantic with a stop in Iceland i think.
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mconway
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:50 pm

Alot/most of the 727's will fly the blue spruce route when crossing the pond due to the fact that they are non HF equipped. That way they will be in VHF contact for most of their flight with Gander on 127.9 and Iceland 127.85/126.55. We had a Swiftair 722 come into YQX just yesterday from Iceland.
 
YOW4NOW
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:00 pm

Good question! I have one that is similar. Was this a route Boeing customers would use when they originally purchased 737's? Similarily, how do current customers receive their 717's if overseas? Or, A-318's and other A-Bus into North America.
 
godbless
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:57 pm

Having American 727's in Europe is easy to explain. As already mentioned the former separated Berlin was the main reason for that. I remember when I saw a whole bunch of Delta 727's parked at FRA up until around 1996 (?). They flew to Athens, Moscow and other European destinations.

As for the Lufthansa 727 in Toronto in 1993. I guess that was a bird that was in storage for a while and then flown over the pond to a) another airline or b) for further storage or c) to be broken up. I guess this since the last 727 left the Lufthansa fleet in 1992.

Max
 
COAB767
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:31 pm

Continental Micronesia used to operate 727s to GUM from HNL it was called the "island hopper" flight and it stopped in all the tiny micronesian islands prior to reaching GUM.
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acefreighter
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 10:56 pm

I believe that Danair used to operate their 727-200's on LGW-YYZ charters during the 80's with 175 seats!
 
travellin'man
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:33 pm

To answer the earlier question about getting aircraft over the pond...

Transatlantically, the planes can stop in any number of places to shorten their overwater time. The last North American field is generally Gander, the there is Greenland (if necessary), Iceland, then Ireland. I don't know what the exact Pacific sequence is, but it probably goes up to Alaska, down the Aleutians and into Russian airspace. The one that involves extra rigging is getting 717's down under or to hawaii; these need to have a few seats removed, and be fitted with extra special collapsible fuel tanks in the cabin. Keep in mind that the planes are generally flown close to empty that first time, so their range increases a bit.
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elwood64151
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:38 pm

The 717s have four of those fuel tanks installed, and if what I saw in Airliner Magazine was correct, no seats (they must be installed in Hawaii).

When they ordered the DC-9s from DC/MD, they had (IIRC) 8 of those collapsable tanks, maybe more, because of the 717s increased (comparably) range.
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Setjet
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:44 pm

Lufthansa used one of the last 727s for occasional charters to US cities.
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tjwgrr
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:44 pm

I'm quite sure FedEx operated 727F's across the pond from EWR for a time before they acquired the DC-10.

Anyone confirm this?
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FinnWings
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:25 am

Didn't also Sterling used to fly across the pond with their B727s years ago from CPH... Or do I remember totally wrong?

FinnWings
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:32 am

FinnWings:
Memory serves you correct. Sterling Airlines used to operate summer seasonal service on the B727 between CPH and YYZ.
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AC330
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:04 am

I remember back in the mid to late 90's Royal Airlines did a summer service between St. John's, Newfoundland and Shannon, Ireland on a 727-200. Also Skyservice did a summer service between St. John's and London Gatwick on an Airbus 319 2 summers ago.

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wedgetail737
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:09 am

Sterling also used to serve FLL from CPH with 727-200's. That was a sight to see.
 
airways6max
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:15 am

727s were not normally used for Trans-Atlantic flights because they did not have the fuel range for flights from North America to Europe. It is possible to fly a 727 over such a route, with one or two refueling stops along the way.
 
b741
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:25 am

If memory serves me correct, a 727 was lost in the North Atlantic on 11Sep 90 after running out of fuel. Very tragic and those poor people. It is the only large pax jet aircraft that I know of being lost over the North Atlantic.

Robert
Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
 
PIA777
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:35 am

I remember when a TWA 727 was highjacked in Egypt during the mid 80's. I also recall seeing a United 727 in London.

PIA77
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Bobs89irocz
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:39 am

I saw a picture somewhere of a TWA 727 in Athens, it had a big hole in the right side of the fuslage because of a bomb (i think i dont remember much). Either way it was damaged.

Also, Privat Air (operated by LH) flyes from ORD-Dusseldorf, Germany about 5 days a week with a A319. It goes non stop but only has 40 seats and almost the whole belly is a big fuel tank.
 
PIA777
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:42 am

The 727 that I mentioned earlier was a TWA flight from Cairo to Athens (flight 847) In the 1985. There was a TV movie on that Highjacking as well.

PIA777
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Capital146
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:43 am

B741,

Four large additions which immediately spring to mind are Air India 742, Swissair MD-11, Egyptair 763 and TWA 741.
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b741
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:49 am

Capital 146

You are correct sir. I should of said in my wording "loss not due to sabotage".
Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
 
gte439u
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:53 am

If memory serves me correct, a 727 was lost in the North Atlantic on 11Sep 90 after running out of fuel. Very tragic and those poor people. It is the only large pax jet aircraft that I know of being lost over the North Atlantic.


link to story

It was a Faucett Peru 727 that ditched in the Atlantic due to fuel starvation betweek Keflavik and Gander.
 
Capital146
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:54 am

B741,

Sorry if I'm sounding picky but the Swissair MD-11 was definatley not lost due to sabotage either whilst TWA flight 800 is debateable but officially categorised as accidental.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
b741
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:15 am

I should of also said "in the middle of the ocean".

Robert
Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
 
boac707
Posts: 273
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 6:57 am

Wardair flew the atlantic many moons ago in 727's
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F9Widebody
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RE: 727s Over Pond

Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:02 am

Want to see how they do the 717 filghts, here ya go!


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