SunValley
Topic Author
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:51 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:30 am

Guess HA is dropping ONT, as they state they have been
"unsuccessful in making it profitable"
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 1999 6:00 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:32 am

This is what? The second or third time they've pulled out?

 
sprxflySWA
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:37 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 2:39 am

Not much of a surprise, in my opinion. After all, frees up plane for Aussie service.
Also, I do not recall HA serving ONT before. I know Rich Intl. flew L-1011s nonstop from ONT-HNL awhile ago.
 
FLIBOYZ
Posts: 196
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:12 am

Watch FAT be next.....Not a shock to see ONT not doing good. That was a pretty risky move for HA in the first place. But if you don't try you never know huh.

With the trustee massaging there operations and making an announcment soon about reductions and such, we'll see what else is cut. My guess will be FAT and PHX. And some Interisland flights. Maybe to return one or two more 717s to Boeing.

But that is just MY .02.

Later
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:14 am

HA did indeed serve ONT before, around 1992, with DC-8's and L-1011's.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3637
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:16 am

Since when did HA start flying to FAT??? I knew they flew to SMF.
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:17 am

wow!! I didn't know that about Hawaiian Air was use into ONT many times and after that was pulled out with ONT. So also, I heard HA make announcement added second flight from SEA to HNL soon. I read other news yesterday with Hawaiian Air. Well, talk ya later!  Smile
 
flynavy
Posts: 2177
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:18 am

I lived near Fresno during the summer of 2003, and I never recall seeing a Hawaiian aircraft land at FAT. It's odd, though, that the FYI website has them listed as a carrier. Any info?
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
sprxflySWA
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:37 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:22 am

Alright, I stand corrected.

But, I'll bet $100 that FAT is not next HA city to lose service. Seeing as they do not fly there. Maybe you meant SMF?

Perhaps if HA had something smaller than 763 to fly to ONT, it would have done better. Maybe AQ will start service there,as well.

It amazes me how many routes airlines deem unprofitable anymore. Especially when it is not that old of a route. How much $$ do these airlines pay folks to decide what cities to fly to. Hell, I could get $75,000/yr to have an airline service a $$ losing route for under a year!  Big grin
 
FoxBravo
Posts: 2769
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:34 am

I believe it was mentioned on the thread about HA's new SYD service that the suspension of ONT would allow the commencement of SYD, which is most likely a better use of resources.

I would imagine that the 763 is a bit large for the ONT market. I wonder if AQ could make it work with a 73G, since they have had a lot of success in smaller West Coast markets.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
mikesairways
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:47 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:03 am

I think FAT is a codeshare with HP, but am not sure.

I'm surprised they never flew out of SJC
The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4437
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:21 am

Hawaiian's service out of FAT is a codeshare on American Eagle, one of the many codeshares AE operates on their LAX flights.

HA's codeshare with HP covers a number of cities mainly to the east and north of PHX but not Fresno or others to the west.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
HALFA
Posts: 1027
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:38 am

Sunvalley,
Where did you get this information from? I haven't heard or read anything about this here in HNL. Please share your sources.

Regards
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
SunValley
Topic Author
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:51 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:57 am

HALFA, here it is.
www.http://pacific.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2004/01/19/daily44.html?jst=b_ln_hl

[Edited 2004-01-22 23:59:19]
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3637
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:00 am

I can see AQ flying to ONT. It would definitely boost their presence in the L.A. Basin, since they have flights from SNA and BUR. I wonder if FAT has the population base for AQ HNL service. SMF seems to have enough of a market to support both HA and AQ.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3637
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:00 am

I can see AQ flying to ONT. It would definitely boost their presence in the L.A. Basin, since they have flights from SNA and BUR. I wonder if FAT has the population base for AQ HNL service. SMF seems to have enough of a market to support both HA and AQ.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:25 am

I believe it was mentioned on the thread about HA's new SYD service that the suspension of ONT would allow the commencement of SYD, which is most likely a better use of resources.


However, the day after they are pulling out of ONT, they are going double-daily on SEA-HNL.
a.
 
AirMatt
Posts: 66
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2003 6:51 pm

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:33 am

What a bummer. I thought they were going to make it this time, as they've been there for quite a while. Hopefully AQ will step up and fill the void. I definitely think there's a market for ONT-HNL.
 
HALFA
Posts: 1027
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:48 am

Sunvalley,
I would love to read the article but can't seem to pull it up. The link must have expired. I did a search on the Pacific Business News website, but couldn't find it.

Regards
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
sprxflySWA
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:37 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:55 am

Population base in Fresno area might be large enough, but the amount of $$ they have to spend to go to HNL might not be there. Large population doesn't always equate a lot of $$ to travel.
 
FATFlyer
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Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:11 pm

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4437
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:15 pm

SprxflySWA,

I think the money is there in Fresno. But pricing would have to make sense since many FAT travellers (especially families) are willing to drive elsewhere to save money on airfare.

Another article I read about the end of HA at ONT said it was actually priced higher on ONT-HNL than an HA flight out of LAX.
http://www.pe.com/business/local/stories/PE_Biz_aloha22.a0f52.html

[Edited 2004-01-23 04:20:26]
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
FLIBOYZ
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:25 pm

OOPS!!!!!  Wink/being sarcastic That's what I meant...SMF......Was thinking of something else while typing. Sooooo Sorry.......
 
FLIBOYZ
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Fri Jan 23, 2004 12:34 pm

As I work for another airline and can pull up the fares a particular airline is charging on routes, it does not surprise me that this market isn't making it. Sometimes I even pull up fare comparisons with HA and other airlines and find that a lot of times HA charges the most on the routes. Sometimes as much as a few hundred dollars. This excludes the internet. I repeat excludes. So a POSSIBLE factor could be that they were charging too high a price.

Who knows. Maybe AQ CAN make it a go serving ONT-HNL and ONT-OGG. Maybe even FAT-HNL and FAT-OGG. One route that I have noticed that HA charges a lot for is the SAN-HNL route. Sometimes I can't believe my eyes when I see the prices. Again this is EXCLUDING the internet. Maybe they need a little more competition from the home town rival...ALOHA. AQ should start PDX-HNL too and SEA-HNL....

 
sprxflySWA
Posts: 587
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:37 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:48 am

I'd like to see BOI-OAK-HNL.
It would leave here early 6am. Need an early OAK flight, since WN don't ever seem to going to have it.
This flight,plus late return, would compete with SkyWest/UAX SFO flights. Bigger planes,less delays.
Plus, if you add any BOI-OAK pax, with any going to HNL, this MAY be a viable trip.Adding any thru pax w/ originating in OAK could give enough pax.

However, as I see Hawaiian Vacations weekly trip to OGG go from nonstop to combining it with GEG-OGG trip, and only see 60+ pax, maybe this would not work. But, it would give a lot more options than being on Maui for a week.
I'm selfish, just want early OAK flight!!
 
SunValley
Topic Author
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:51 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 7:30 am

Sprx,
When RNO was added over at AQ, they seriously considered BOI, so I know it is on their plate at sometime. Additonally I know AQ has shown a great interest in SLC, as one of their marketing people told me SLC has the largest
Pacific Islander communities outside the state of Hawaii. I do know that in SLC
there is even an embassy for the Kingdom of Tonga, and the leaders from Tonga may very frequent trips to SLC. With AQ serving Tonga from HNL, I believe that in the near future AQ will start service to SLC
 
us330
Posts: 3409
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:45 am

SLC having the highest population of Pacific Islanders outside the state of Hawaii doesn't surprise me. Want to guess why? The Mormons were the ones that converted alot of those islanders to Christianity, and thus to Mormonism. That is why you see pacific names on the backs of BYU jerseys.
 
Leneld
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RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:57 am

I'm really surprised that Aloha doesn't fly to Portland or Seattle area...
 
skaggs
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:03 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:03 am

Thats too bad, their 767-300 sitting amongst all the 737 - MD80 - RJ airline fleet was truly beautiful. I sat there and stared at it for an hour while waiting for my ONT-DFW flight on Delta a couple months ago. It was perfectly clean and looked brand new.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 3637
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RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:40 am

The OAK-HNL route on AQ hasn't always been early in the morning. During the summer of 2002, the HNL flight left OAK at 12:30PM. So, the aircraft wouldn't have to leave BOI too early.

Plus, I wouldn't mind another OAK-HNL flight. I wonder how AQ is doing out of OAK. The few times I've been there, AQ filled all of their Hawaiian flights.
 
iflyatldl
Posts: 1796
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 1:41 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 11:59 am

Could ONT support a 737NG flight- Does Aloha serve ONT? I can't remember. Big grin
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
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Aloha717200
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RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:09 pm

I too have noticed that Hawaiian often times has among the most expensive of fares from the west coast to hawaii. So that definitely could have had something to do with their ONT-HNL service not being successful. Expecially if the flight from LAX is cheaper.

I have been praying for Aloha to open up service to SLC. SunValley I envy your sources. You're always in the know. I just hope you're right and Aloha IS considering SLC. Competition on the SLC-OAK route is badly needed, even if it is only an early morning or late evening flight.

I didnt know SLC had a tongan embassy, where is that located? I'm in SLC at least once a month, I never noticed a high population of pacific islanders. But then again I'm not usually looking at people either.  Wink/being sarcastic

I'd be thrilled to have AQ at SLC. And at ONT. Here's to both if they happen.
 
Coronado990
Posts: 1312
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:12 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:59 pm

There's your flight right there...SLC-ONT-HNL on AQ. It's bound to happen.


Uncle SAN at your service!
 
FLIBOYZ
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 1:48 pm

AQ is doing great on most of there Mainland-Hawaii routes. OAK-HNL, SNA-HNL, OAK-OGG, SNA-OGG. AQ also thought about serving SAN before HA decided to start service there. AQ should start SAN-HNL service too. More competition means, MOST of the time, lower, competitive fares.

Go ALOHA.

Ciao
 
ASBOIRR
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:19 pm

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:14 pm

However, as I see Hawaiian Vacations weekly trip to OGG go from nonstop to combining it with GEG-OGG trip, and only see 60+ pax, maybe this would not work. But, it would give a lot more options than being on Maui for a week.
I'm actually surprised that 757 left with that many people. I wasn't surprised when the stop was included - this is how it should begun. Although "convenient" there just isn't enough people in the area to fill up a charter flight that leaves and returns once a week.

In a few years I think BOI will be ready for AQ style daily one-stop service to Hawai'i.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:59 am

When can we expect to hear any new city announcements from Aloha? I would imagine if AQ managed to get DCA slots, that would be next city.

FLIBOYZ...do you know if AQ will reinstate the OAK-LIH flights again in the Spring?

In a way, I had wished I flew AQ to HNL over HA when I went to Hawaii during Thanksgiving 2002. But the opportunity for AA miles was too hard to pass up.
 
Bubbinski
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RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:19 am

Salt Lake does have a good sized Pacific Islander community....I think a lot of them live in places like West Valley City, but you'll find them all over S.L. and Utah Valley. I just checked...there is no Tongan consulate here but the one in San Francisco serves Utah as well, and there is a New Zealand consulate here, according to this web site: Utah List of Consulates

One time, I was driving along and passed a Utah Transit Authority bus, and it had a Polynesian-language advertising sign on its side....that's a pretty good indicator of the size of the community.

Remember, Delta does have a daily 764 service to HNL....I'd love to see Aloha or Hawaiian come here, I wonder if that would start a mini fare war with DL.

Bubbinski

[Edited 2004-01-24 19:24:49]

[Edited 2004-01-24 19:36:50]
"Simplify" - Thoreau
 
FLIBOYZ
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 4:17 am

Wedegetail737

Yes. The LIH-OAK flight is seasonal. Maybe with more aircraft being delivered to AQ they may even go year round. Who knows right now. I think there major focus is to get a foot in at DC. Once they get that, look for AQ to announce JFK, LGA, or EWR. I think they are looking to enter JFK. But not sure what the routing will be. They will be competing against AA from SNA-JFK and B6 from OAK-JFK. And with CO to EWR. And the slots at LGA are already tight as it is too. Who knows, they may even do a BUR-JFK. That would be interesting.

They may even be waiting to see what happens with HAs restructuring that is soon to be announced.

I am planning a trip back to Hawaii in March and was looking into purchasing a ticket on them from OAK-HNL too. I want to experience there in-flight service for which they won an award for not too long ago.

How can you go wrong. Allen Wong cuisine, a top known chef in Hawaii, baked on board cookies with milk, free headsets, comfortable seats.

 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4437
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 6:03 am

I don't think the Pacific Islander population would be a major reason for SLC to see service to the islands, it would just be a nice extra. Actually the largest populations of Pacific Islanders are in Hawaii followed by California, Washington then Utah. See this article:
http://dced.utah.gov/NewsCntr/InNews/57841.htm

According to the figures the entire state of Utah currently has only about 20,000-25,000 Native Hawaiians and Pacific Islanders. Heck, we have that many Hmongs from Laos just in Fresno and I don't see anyone talking about the possibility of FAT-VTE flights.  Big grin

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
us330
Posts: 3409
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2000 7:00 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:57 am

Just out of curiosity, but do AQ and HA compete on any Mainland-Hawaii routes? It would be interesting to see who is making more profit, although my initial inference would be that AQ would because of the smaller aircraft size.
 
HALFA
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RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:23 am

Us330,

Hawaiian and Aloha both fly from Sacramento and Phoenix to Hawaii. Aloha flies SMF-BUR-HNL, and PHX-SNA-OGG I believe. Hawaiian flies nonstop from both SMF and PHX to HNL.

Can't tell you how profitable Aloha is on these routes but can tell you that Hawaiian's flights on these routes are generally heavy.
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
socalatc
Posts: 416
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2004 5:16 pm

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 9:35 am

I think they need to try out LGB. I know aloha wanted to but could not get the slots. For some reason I think HA would do ok in LGB. IM probably wrong though.
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:22 am

It doesn't surprise me that HA is pulling out of ONT. The loads were generally light. That's why they moved the LAS flight from LAX to ONT, to try to improve the loads. If HA had gotten some of the rumored 757s, the route may have done better.

As for HA's fares, because HA is providing non-stop service from areas close enough to other larger airports it serves: SMF, ONT, SAN, they are charging a premium for providing non-stop service. Otherwise those pax would have to either drive to the other airport (SFO, LAX) or connect. The premium was to be set at about $50. However, ONT and LAX fares are the same right now, special web fare to ONT/LAX-$289, HawaiianMiles members-$269, and the specials also put SMF and SAN only $10 more than SFO and LAX.

About SLC service, it is not just the Pacific Islander population, it is the Mormon population. The Mormons are very active in sending missionaries to the Pacific Islands and have gained many members from the area. Then you have all the colleges, mainly BYU and Utah, adding to the amount of pax.
 
lasbagman
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2001 8:55 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:27 am

hi HA763

I am hearing more rumours about east coast flights. I work for Globeground in LAS and handle HA8/7 flights.
Have you heard anything about more flights to LAS ? the loads have been quite heavy for quite sometime. Have you seen us in the HA Passenger Service Uniforms yet ?
 
User avatar
aloha73g
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RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 10:28 am

Hawaiian and Aloha both fly from Sacramento and Phoenix to Hawaii. Aloha flies SMF-BUR-HNL, and PHX-SNA-OGG I believe. Hawaiian flies nonstop from both SMF and PHX to HNL.

Aloha's SMF flight actually goes SMF-BUR-OGG, though I am pretty sure that one way you can connect to the BUR-HNL-BUR flight.

Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 1:25 pm

Socalatc wrote:
I think they need to try out LGB. I know aloha wanted to but could not get the slots.

AQ considered LGB as a backup, in case they were unable to get SNA slots.

David / MRY
 
FLIBOYZ
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 2:33 am

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:10 pm

As I said earlier, internet rates EXCLUDED. The prices that HA lists on RES is sometimes outrageously ridiculous. Regardless if they are the only airline flying THAT particular route. Charging a higher price and not being competitive won't get an airline far.

If I had to pay $300 r/t and connect in LAX from SAN to get to HNL I would do that over paying $650.00 r/t on a non-stop flight. This is just an example routing.

Not saying that ALL there routes are like this but have seen it happen many times before.



 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:01 pm

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:16 pm

FLIBOYZ, I have heard nothing but good comments in regards to AQ's trans-pac service in both classes. I want to try them myself and I used to be a Premier with UA. A friend of mine and her husband who live here and own a condo in SFO fly AQ to Oakland, and they can fly any carrier they want to, if you know what I mean. That says it all!
 
usnseallt82
Posts: 4727
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:49 pm

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 2:16 pm

Wish they wouldn't, but oh well.
Crye me a river
 
ha763
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: Hawaiian Pulling Out Of ONT

Sun Jan 25, 2004 5:28 pm

FLIBOYZ,

If you read my post, I said that HA charges a premium for providing non-stop service. Of course HA's fares look high many times. Have you checked out their load factors? For December 2003, their LF was 84.3% and for all of 2003, it was 80.3%. I can tell you for a fact that these numbers are only revenue pax. This means that people are still buying tickets even after the lower fares are gone. In addition, HA has been recognized by many travel organizations and publications as one of the top domestic carriers, which also allows HA to charge a premium.