TWA Ditches A330s And Confirms A320s

Wed Jan 19, 2000 6:37 am

TWA has confirmed it's order for 50 A318s and 25 A320s, in addition to 75 A320 options. The A320 order/options can be any combination of A319/320/321.

This order along with the 50 Firm/50 Option 717 order has been used by TWA as a trade in against it's order for 10 RR Trent powered A330-300s which are now cancelled.

This could be another reason for the Airbus A318/Boeing 717 order split. The airbuses offset the A330 loss to Airbus and the 717's Rolls Royce GmbH BR715 engines offset the loss of the Trent order.

TWA is also said to be interested in ordering PW2040 powered 757-300s to replace it's ageing 767-200s on domestic routes.

Well, the uncertainty over the A330 order has finally ended, I would have liked to see the TWA livery on an A330 
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TWA's 717s

Wed Jan 19, 2000 6:49 am

I still don't get why TWA would order 50 717s and 50 A318s why not a 100 717s or 100 A318s? Anyone know why?

Thats What Im Sayin'

Wed Jan 19, 2000 6:57 am

USAirways737 you took took the words right out of my mouth. Why not order 100 A318/320 and no 717's, that is not going to be very good fleet comonality. I would of loved to see the A330 in TWA colors too, can someone confirm this information?
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Wed Jan 19, 2000 7:01 am

Although the A318 and MD-95 (717) are of similar size, they will have very different roles in the TWA fleet. The MD-95 must more efficient than the A318 at short haul routes where the majority of the flight is climbing or decending, while the A318 has more range, commonality with A320 srs, and more efficiency at longer routes. Therefore, the MD-95s will be put on short haul regional type routes (such as STL-CLT), while the A318s will be put on low density long haul where the MD-83 is too big (such as STL-SMF).

A318 And 717 Makes Sense

Wed Jan 19, 2000 7:09 am

TWA ordering the 717 and A318 does make sense!
Read my post, it says both orders were used to offset the RR powered A330 cancellation. More than that, as has been said, they will have very different roles at TWA. The A318s will arrive from 2004 and TWA says it will use them on 4-5 hour routes from St Louis replacing MD-80s and increasing frequencies. The 717 will begin to replace DC-9s from next month or short routes, including on the East coast

Can't provide any online confirmation of the info from today's Flight International, because their website hasn't been updated yet. I'll post the link tomorrow when it features the story.

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RE: A318 And 717 Makes Sense

Wed Jan 19, 2000 7:21 am

It does make sense due to the different roles being played. Also, if TWA does want more Boeing aircraft in the future they can't just order 100 A-318s and think they can get away with it.

Jet Setter

Wed Jan 19, 2000 7:24 am

Dont you think that it is hard to beleive that you have to buy 50 717 to offset 20 Trent 700s? I think, as the others mentioned there is more into that order. TWA likes the MD-83s and its little brother, the MD-95 is an amaizing aircraft...


Wed Jan 19, 2000 7:44 am

I thought I did say the different roles of the A318/717 was the most important reason for the order! I never said they ordered the 717 just to offset the loss of an order for 20 RR Trent engines!

Also, the Airbuses will replace the MD-83. The 717 will be replacing the DC-9 and 727. The MD-80 and 717 don't have that much in common. New Flightdeck, New engines etc. A mechanic has said, being MD-80 qualified and looked at the 717, you'll probably need quite substantial retraining to work on the 717 after the MD-80.

I don't think there was supposed to be a family concept with the MD-95/MD-80 was there. More likely MD-95/MD-90.

Hope I cleared that up 
Safe Flying GoA340!


RE: TWA Ditches A330s And Confirms A320s

Wed Jan 19, 2000 8:17 am

Anyone know WHY they cancelled the A330 order? And what are they going to replace the 767s with? Are they just going to keep running the 767 forever? I mean I love the 767 and I know some of them are newer, but geez! TWA sure does seem uncertain in their fleet plans! I don't know what will happen to them. I hope they keep on going, but at this rate...

Jack M

Let Me Clear That Up!

Wed Jan 19, 2000 8:18 am

Sorry! In my previous post I said I hope they keep on going. It sounds like I meant "I hope the 767s keep on going." I meant the airline, TWA. I hope that clears up any confusion, and I'm sorry.

Jack M

RE: TWA Ditches A330s And Confirms A320s

Wed Jan 19, 2000 8:59 am

What engine did they order? Was it the IAE V2000 or CFM56?
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TWA Fleet Plans

Wed Jan 19, 2000 9:06 am

I can add some inside info on this one...

717's are the most efficent 100 seater avail today. An excellent choice for TW and they got a great deal as well. (717 arouind 15% more fuel efficent than the A318 that adds up to a lot of savings when in an airline fuel is your biggest expense.)

A318 has longer range than the 717 hence good choice for long thin... STL-SMF STL-SJC. Also good for new routes that could come along ie JFK-ABQ, JFK-LAS, JFK-PHX.

727's are being replaced by MD82/83 (within 2-4 seat match in TW config.)

717's are initially replacing mostly DC-9-30's but some 727 routes short term.

TWA is acquiring additional 767-300ER as they can get them. They have sold/swapped/released 4 767-200 aircraft for 767-300ers within the last year. They are also looking at 757-300 aircraft to acquire for some 767-200 replacements. They have not yet signed on the dotted line on this one yet. (I hope they go with the 767-300er instead but the economics on the 757-300 are too good to pass up and it would be ideal for some routes)

The A320 series order seems a bit odd to me. They have the 757-200's and they seem to be a great fit and they are happy with them. Hence the A319/320/321 makes me wonder....

Current long term TW fleet outlook
DC-9-30 (being retired)
DC-9-50 (being retired)
727-200ADV (being retired)
A319/320/321 (order for 25 plus 75 options exact type unspecified.. Will they sublease them when accepted?)
757-300 (future order forthcoming?)
767-200 (being retired)

RE: TWA Ditches A330s And Confirms A320s

Wed Jan 19, 2000 10:39 am

By the time the A320s come many of the MD-80s will be 20 years old and due for replacement. Also, the MD-80 looks likely to faill to meet Stage 4 noise rules. Just a thought.

TWA hasn't selected an engine for it's A320s yet
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If Not A330 For Long-Haul Routes, Then What?

Wed Jan 19, 2000 1:15 pm

What will TWA use as its long-haul aircraft? It sounds as though there will only be 767-300ERs left, and few at that. All the rest are short- to medium-haulers. What will be TWA's long-range airliner of choice?

RE: TWA Ditches A330s And Confirms A320s

Wed Jan 19, 2000 1:32 pm

Don't hold your breath about that Stage 4 crap...half the US airline fleets would be grounded.

The MD83's aren't going anywhere especially the 23 new ones delivered in 1998-99.

RE: TWA Ditches A330s And Confirms A320s

Wed Jan 19, 2000 1:32 pm

TWA is looking at the 767-400 and 777 as it's future longhaul aircraft. No decisions are expected for a while
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TWA Longhaul

Wed Jan 19, 2000 1:48 pm

I would expect to see additional 767-300ER's for longhaul operations...

One should note that TWA isn't looking to increase market share so much as it is looking to improve yield.

I would not expect to see anything larger than a 767-300ER at TWA until they can show a few quarters of regular profits. The idea of adding 767-400 or 777 aircraft just doesn't seem to fit the long term plan they have.

Also as noted on another thread TWA seems to have quite a bit of long range 757 flying (at least amongst US carriers). This would fit in with the concept of chasing yeilds rather that market share. ie. SJU-LAX, HNL-STL (seasonally), STL-ANC (seasonally) and JFK to the west coast, They also operate some European flights from JFK with 757's

Additionally, I do not see TWA being able to currently support a large fleet of 767-400 or 777 aircraft with enough high yield to make them profitable. Nor do I see the costs and training of yet another type to be worth the trouble for only a few aircraft.

I would have serious reservations in leasing TWA a 777.

RE: TWA Ditches A330s And Confirms A320s

Thu Jan 20, 2000 12:09 am

TWA are only evaluating the 777 and 764. There is definately no prospect of an order for either of these types anytime soon. However, TWA needs an aircraft with Trans-Pacific range sometime in the future. This is why I think TWA will probably run a small 777 fleet for busier Atlantic and Pacific routes.

It may not have been clear from my previous post that TWA were not about to make an order, but merely looking at the options for when the time is right 
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RE: TWA Ditches A330s And Confirms A320s

Fri Jan 21, 2000 6:28 pm

I understand your point...

It should be noted that TWA is holding a dormant STL-NRT route and the talk with TW management is that it plans on using a 767 to fly the route with a reserve crew.

Given the length etc of that route and the intention of TW to use a 767 on it when that would certainly be a route that one would normally associate with larger equipment... (ie 777, MD11, 747, A340, A330, DC-10 et al). And let us not forget they own 2 or 3 747's still that are parked and waiting for sale or breakup for spares, If ever an excuse to bring one back that route, or JFK-TLV would have been the ones. I think it would be safe to say unless something major changes TWA will not add anything larger than a 767-300 for the next 3-4 years at least.

Good and valid points however Jetsetter