Thrust
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Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:54 pm

In all the years they have been around, not one AA A300 has ever served a direct route to DFW. Why? At the same time, why have the Fokkers never served MIA? It just seems to me that if an airline is to have a major hub some place, you would expect that all of their aircraft would operate into that city. The A300s have been around as long or longer than the 763ERs, and the F-100s enjoyed over 10 years of service before the withdrawal process began. AA has had hubs at ORD, DFW, and MIA for a very long time too.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
777boy
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Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:14 pm

Simple answer to your first question. The A300s have found their niche on the Latin American routes. AA seems to love the capacity, and with a high concentration of Latin-Americans in MIA and JFK, it only makes sense to fly the soon to be LRTC (less room throughout coach) planes on these routes. I think that 757s (also LRTC) are used on DFW and ORD routes to Latin America, but I'm not really sure. I'll bet someone more familiar with the situation can give a better answer.

As to the Fokkers never going to MIA, where would they fly from MIA? DFW and ORD both have numerous large cities within about a thousand miles that people are wanting to connect to. Since MIA is tucked in its own corner of the country, I can't think of any route the Fokkers would have been good for. The same applies to LAX. As far as I know, Fokkers have never served LAX. LAX is also in corner of the country and mostly get really long flights (1,000+ mi) on other, bigger planes, or Eagle flights of 500- miles. Just a geography issue, I think.

I'm sure someone else with more info can back me up here, or prove me wrong.

Matt
 
Thrust
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:20 pm

Thanks, 777Boy. Your info seems credible and sensible enough to me. I will remember this info for future reference. Smile

--Thrust
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:48 pm

The A300s have found their niche on the Latin American routes. AA seems to love the capacity, and with a high concentration of Latin-Americans in MIA and JFK, it only makes sense to fly the soon to be LRTC

It's not the pax capacity they love... it's the cargo.

The only other aircraft in their fleet than can carry sufficient cargo on the island routes are the 772ERs... yet those aircraft are illsuited for continual short/mediumhaul in the manner than AA uses the AB6s
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maiznblu_757
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:42 pm

I believe in the mid-late 90's, AA had a couple A300's in Chicago to Miami. I have to check my timetables.
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:47 pm

I guess I dont have too.. In the database their are some photos of AA A300's in Chicago.. Looks like they served SJU and MIA. Its quite possible they could add A300's at anytime on these routes.

I almost seem to remember AA A300's that flew LHR-ORD.. Anybody else remember this?

 
AASTEW
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:58 pm

AA did operate 56 seat F100's from DAL-LAX when they were competing with the long gone Legend Airlines.

AASTEWLGA
 
Guest

RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:02 pm

ORD and DFW are frequency markets for AA; as it is, only the occasional 767/777 is seen flying domestic routes in these markets. In general, AA likely doesn't need the capacity of the AB6 to/from DFW & ORD. But I agree that DFW/ORD-MIA/SJU are realistic AB6 routes.

I almost seem to remember AA A300's that flew LHR-ORD..

AA temporarily flew 3-class AB6 to Europe in the late 1990s/early 2000s while waiting to take delivery of more B763. However, I don’t believe LHR-ORD was one of the routes – they were flown exclusively from JFK and BOS IIRC.

[Edited 2004-01-28 10:07:17]
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:04 pm

Ill check my timetables, I gots shits loads of them from the late 80's early 90's.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:25 pm

AA did fly the A300 between MIA-LAX, and MIA-ORD markets in the 90's...
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:45 pm

Not to sound rude AA777MIA, it probably will but, seriously, I dont mean it... we established that.

I am going to check my timetable collection to see if AA indeed flew the A300 LHR-ORD.

[Edited 2004-01-28 11:46:57]
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:18 am

Before AA dumped the route, AA flew the A300 EWR-LHR for a brief while not too long ago....
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:23 am

Maiznblue- I would seriously doubt AA took their A300s on ORD-LHR, only BOS,EWR, and JFK to LHR with the A300.
Go big or go home
 
rjpieces
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:27 am

I remember they advertised the new A300 service pretty heavily. They painted it as a new alternative to cross the Atlantic, on the new ultraluxurious Airbus A300s!!!!!
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:57 am

As mentioned above.....the A300's were acquired at the time when AA was building up its operations at MIA. AA had already commited to 767's, but Crandall, being the savy business guy that he was, basically told McD and Boeing to go screw themselves and went out and purchased the Airbus and Fokker since Boeing thought they had the 763 order all wrapped up, and wasn't cutting any deals. After AA placed the A300 order, sure enough, they got a much better deal on the 763's. The A300's were suited for the markets out of MIA and SJU. Yes, AA did fly the A300 on MIA-ORD in the 90's, and a short stint on MIA-LAX.

The A300's were also arriving at time just when the industry was headed into a downturn around the time of the Gulf War. In the aftermath, around 92-94, AA began to retire its oldest DC-10-10's. Thus many were flying routes out of ORD and to/from SJU. Therefore, the A300's replaced many of the DC-10 routes out of SJU and the 757's and 767's were put on some of the mid-con routes.

Once the industry began to recover, AA found itself short on widebody aircraft. The DC-10 phase-out was halted. Also, AA didn't have enough 767's to cover Trans-Atlantic flying so 8 A300's were converted to 3-class service to cover some of the East-Coast-LHR routes. This lasted until the end of 2001 when AA decided to standardize its Trans-Atlantic flying around the 763 and 777.

F-100's were primarily order to handle the growth at the BNA hub, which was later closed down. They were a ahead of their time, as they have much in common with the 90 seat "RJ" F-100's were not used in MIA due to the nature of the hub. Only now are we starting to see more multiple daily flights from domestic cities. In the past, what was typical was an aircraft would leave DTW in the morning, go to MIA, they fly to a point south like CCS, POS, etc, then turn around fly back to MIA, then fly to some domestic city to remain overnight. This was very typical of the routing for the 727's, 757's and now 738's. The F-100 was unable to do such flights as they would have to stay in the US.
 
LMP737
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:02 am

Another reason you don't see A300 at ORD and DFW is economics. When you have an aircraft flying in and out of a station you have to stock spares and have your maintenance people trained on that aircraft. By eliminating the A300 out of ORD and DFW AA saves money on both spares and training. A little side affect of removing the A300 from AA ORD's schedule was their reliability numbers went up.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:17 am

A300's mx is performed at TUL. AA never really flew the A300 in ORD, just a couple flights to/from MIA.
 
Thrust
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:52 am

Potentially I would think that the -772ER has a far greater cargo capacity than the A300. Look at the friggin difference in the size of these two planes. The -772ER makes the A300 look kinda tiny. Then again, the cabin width is about the same for both planes, both have perfectly circular cross-sections.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:54 am

Im going to get my timetables, Ill get back wit ya.
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:34 am

All of my timetables are from early 90's and late 90's for AA I looked thru about 30 of them and didnt see any LHR-ORD service with A300's. I used to look at high flyers all the time, and can almost remember seeing a few AA A300's flying over TVC VOR making their way to ORD. I cannot confirm this, so for now I am wrong.  Big grin

I did find a couple AA A300's in LAX and DFW however. One of the A300's to DFW flew LHR-EWR-DFW.
 
Thrust
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:40 am

Thank you for clearing up a long mystery. Now I know the truth. I'm glad the A300 also was able to serve AA's main hub, an honor it definently deserved.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
aa61hvy
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 12:43 pm

"One of the A300's to DFW flew LHR-EWR-DFW"

I have back up now, I saw one A300 at DFW a while back.
Go big or go home
 
Thrust
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:41 pm

Glad to hear more support that the A300's have been seen at DFW. Love talking about this Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
LMP737
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:05 am

PSU.DTW.SCE:

Yes, I am aware that TUL does the heavy maintenance on the A300. However when the A300 was flying in and out of ORD AA was training their AMT's to work on them. Along with stocking spare parts for the aircraft.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
DELTA320
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:29 am

AA did operate the A.300-605R on the ORD-MIA route, I know this b'coz I was lucky enough to fly on it !! This was in 1995. Also as a footnote to this info, the SHIP # that I did happen to fly from ORD to Mia on was N14053. This was the A.300-600R that American lost on climbout from JFK in Nov' 2001.
Delta320
 
ordpark
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:44 am

It"s a little known fact, but the Chicago Department of Aviation passed an Ordinance in the mid '90's prohibitting A300's from operating at ORD.....simply because they are so gangly looking!?!?
 
LMP737
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:39 am

Ordpark:

Is this really true or are you being a bit sarcastic?
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
ordpark
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Fri Jan 30, 2004 3:54 pm

evidently, a very bad attempt at sarcasm...
 
LMP737
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 12:03 am

Ordpark:

Actually I was being sarcastic about you being sarcastic.  Big grin
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
gigneil
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:33 am

otentially I would think that the -772ER has a far greater cargo capacity than the A300. Look at the friggin difference in the size of these two planes.

The 777 is a much larger plane, yes. Its also a much more capable plane, and its not particularly wise to fly a plane with 7200 or so nm of range on short hop high frequency service. You're carrying around a lot of extra plane for no reason.

Its one thing to turn the plane once or twice in between longhauls.

N
 
 
tommy767
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:23 am

Yes. AA A300 flights from EWR, BOS, and JFK To LHR took place in the late 90s (at least from 1999) and up to about 2001. I remember in Early 2001, there was an A/C change on the EWR-LHR from an AB6 to a 763. Apparently, those LHR bound A300s had PTV's in coach while the 763 didn't! Until the cancellation of the flight in Early 2003, the EWR-LHR route was to be operated by a 777. Unfortunately, that never happened. Bummer.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:28 am

Going a little paste-crazy there startvalve?  Laugh out loud


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aa61hvy
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:46 am

Tommy-you are right, I took AA92/92 when it was the A300.
--
I should add- at DFW in the jetways they have a setting for an A300 only at American's 'A' terminal.
Go big or go home
 
N276AASTT
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:51 pm

Good day everybody,

Being a "ramp rat" at DFW. I asked those same questions myself. Fokker 100's wouldn't have made it in MIA for those reasons stated above, but also because of the size of the aircraft cargo holds. Have you seen the size of the bags people checkin, especially internationally!?!? They are HUGE! The a/c is in the 100 seater range. Trying to fit 100 people's bags into the 3 tiny cargo holds would be impossible. The S80's normally bulk out on the MIA turns and they have considerably more room. I have personally been inside the holds of both types of aircraft mentioned. The Fokker 100's: I have to lay down and pass the bags over me just to get them in, or sit hunched over (which isn't good for the back). It would've been more of a headache than an asset to have them in MIA (Ground crew wise). Peace, Love and Hair Grease!
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fdxgirl
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RE: Why No A300s At DFW Or ORD?

Sat Jan 31, 2004 10:59 pm

i can guarantee you'd see at least one if you look over at the FEDEX ramp

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