SunValley
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Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:28 pm

It look as though Delta is going to go through a growth phase at JFK.
Do you suppose the target is to dilute profits for B6?

http://finance.lycos.com/qc/news/story.aspx?story=200401281000_PRN__NYW056&symbols=QCNEWS:0
 
Udo
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:43 pm

Of course another try to attack jetBlue. It's funny to see how the large snake tries to catch the small mouse...but B6 cannot be stopped that easily. The majors have been trying that for years now and at the end their only losses will only increase.


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:55 pm

Glad to see they're revamping their terminals at JFK - the poor old Worldport is looking very tired (like most JFK terminals).
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
RyanairA320
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:59 pm



Will Delta ever return it's JFK-DUB route? even only seasonal?

I would love if they did and operated the 777


RyanairA320

Ryanair 'The Low Fares Airline' and now also 'The On-time Airline'
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Wed Jan 28, 2004 11:32 pm

JFK-DUB might come back if the Irish gov't dumps that SNN service requirement. Until then, it is doubtful.

As for the expansion, it is clearly aimed at JBLU. Although you'll notice most of the new flights are not using Song...just regular mainline DL or RJ's in case of the secondary markets. It's about time DL did something to compete rather than just run and hide.

 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:28 am

PLZ... don't you think AA or DL are capable of adding flights just to make money and not just run off the competition. DL has been focusing on the NE for a number of years...long before 9/11 and JetBlue's arrival. Same for AA. Don't presume that those carriers are just going to walk away from major markets like NYC where there is still lots of money to be made...for everyone.

There's no doubt B6 will be forced to decide whether it wants to go chasing a million other opportunities like the Shuttle or focus on building its core operation in JFK. Regardless of what B6 does, AA and DL will be major competitors in the NE at JFK for years to come.
 
flyguy1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:30 am

Though some of this expansion appears aimed at B6 (SJU,RSW,DEN extra SEA), many of these cities are not served at all currently from JFK. SAV, GSP, GSO have never been served before IIRC, and I doubt B6 will ever fly to these places. The other services are increased frequency to destinations already served, such as STL which lost most of its service to JFK after TWA went under.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
rjpieces
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JF

Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:46 am

YAY!!!!!!! DL had big JFK expansion plans pre 9/11 and B6. While some of the plans haven't come back (such as the new terminal), I am glad to see they are adding service. This is great for Delta, great for the 200 new employees, and great for JFK!

Btw, this line was funny: " the addition of bus connection to the new Air Train,"
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
toltommy
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:00 am

Don't forget, because of B6, JFK has become a popular domestic airport as well. DL has room to grow at JFK, and can not only use the growth to stop B6, they can take away some of the traffic that would go to US over at LGA. New Yorkers have learned JFK isn't that far away after all.
 
rjpieces
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JF

Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:03 am

Sorry, nothing Delta could do now will stop B6. LGA is still the preferred airport for business O&D pax, which US has a lot of there.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:03 am


Why doesn't the AirTrain connect to the DL terminals? Wasn't it just built?
 
rjpieces
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JF

Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:10 am

It does connect to the Delta terminals, I have no clue why the article mentioned a bus to the Airtrain!!!  Smile
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JF

Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:10 am

Ordpark,

Do you know if the 744s are getting the updated interior as they go in for overhaul?? Are these D-checks of HMVs?
no wire hangers!
 
atolani
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:12 am

Sorry, how much money did Delta loose last year? and now this..
 
prosa
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:21 am

Though some of this expansion appears aimed at B6 (SJU,RSW,DEN extra SEA), many of these cities are not served at all currently from JFK. SAV, GSP, GSO have never been served before IIRC, and I doubt B6 will ever fly to these places. The other services are increased frequency to destinations already served, such as STL which lost most of its service to JFK after TWA went under.


Let's see, expanded service from JFK to SAN and SEA, new service to SJU and especially SDQ ... I'd say it's not B6 that is worried, it's AA.
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:32 am

I'm curious to know what effects B6's red-eye will see once F9 goes to three daily flights to LGA and a daytime flight to JFK on DL.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
jumbojet
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:05 am

Correct me if I am wrong, but won't this be Delta's first attempt at the Dominican Republic at SDQ ? This will directly compete with USAIR, AA, and CO. Looks like two flights a day on 757's.
 
flyguy1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:09 am

It does appear this expansion is also aimed at AA, I would bet AA will expand service to SDQ soon. DL is also adding service to the west coast cities B6 operates to, but only servies once per day. This may effect whether or not B6 increases service to these destinations, they may have waited to long in that regard. What is also interesting to note, is how many new RJ flights DL has/will add at JFK. While American has cut most of their RJ service at JFK (BOS, DCA, YUL, and RDU are all thats left).
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:12 am


This is a sign that this expansion is not necessarily aimed at domestic competition, but enhancing their connections to their intl service at JFK.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:45 am

Actually, on the contrary, I think this is DL's first real attempt to use JFK as a mainline O&D airport. In the past, virtually all of DL's domestic flights to/from JFK (except for a few transcons, Florida flights and, more recently, Song) were timed to connect with the European flights--i.e., one a day, arriving in the late afternoon and departing in the early evening. As a result, they lacked the frequency to attract much O&D traffic. Now, by adding these multiple frequencies, it looks like DL is starting to take advantage of JFK's increased popularity in the NY area (which TOLtommy rightly noted), attributable both to JetBlue and to the opening of the Airtrain. In other words, DL is finally using JFK more like CO uses EWR--not only as a hub for Europe, but also as a domestic hub and O&D gateway for New York.

I just hope these terminal improvements will be adequate. T2 and T3 are, collectively, a real dump. T3 in particular was not designed with modern security measures in mind, meaning that passengers are forced to stand on line out on the curb in all kinds of weather. I know they don't have the money to go through with their pre-9/11 construction plans, but sooner or later DL will need a better home at JFK.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
LHR001
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:00 am

The hot topic the past few weeks has been Sacramento:


New York/JFK to Sacramento on Jet Blue

Newark to Sacramento on Continental Airlines


Remember, Delta wanted to start this service in 2001!

When is Delta going to start there cabin interior re-vamps... The 767-200's, and 767-300's are starting to look a bit tore up. Not to mention the shape pf some of the 757 and 737 fleet as well!

LHR001

[Edited 2004-01-28 21:04:50]
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JF

Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:48 am

SAV, GSP, GSO have never been served before IIRC, and I doubt B6 will ever fly to these places.

I wouldn't doubt that JetBlue would ever fly there. I'm actually pretty sure that they will. GSO has been on their list since 2000 (even check their press releases on Jetblue.com). Once the 190's come in, then they'll be able to start these routes.

Anyway, I definitely think DL should think this over. 300M? Do they have enough money to do that? I think it's already costing them quite a bit to paint those Song planes and re-do the interiors, let alone revamping a whole terminal! But whatever makes them happy...

I would actually say that the majority of this move was to stop JetBlue from expanding at JFK. For example, DL is adding SJU and SAN which JetBlue already serves 4 and 3 times daily - two important routes to JetBlue. Also, an additional flight to LAS is going to compete with JetBlue's 4 and soon to be 5 daily flights. The new flight to SEA - that's most likely to stop JetBlue from expanding anymore there. And as far as the new DEN route, I think DL noticed that JetBlue was eyeing more flights to JFK from there (but not any other destinations because the fees and taxes there are too high). The additional flights to SFO and LAX are most likely, however, because of increased demand, I would think. The new RSW flight is also because Song already serves the airport, and they saw that it would be profitable to fly there from JFK.

I really do wonder how JetBlue will react. Maybe they'll give DL a taste of their own medicine - add, add, add frequencies and give away miles (or True Blue points in this case). Or, they'll probably be smart about it and just stay the way they are. Whatever happens, there's going to be a huge showdown between B6, DL and AA in NYC and perhaps BOS too.

JetBluefan1
 
PVD757
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:54 am

I couldn't get into the story, the link isn't active and the story has been pulled from the lycos site...
 
LHR001
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:56 am

Denver is going to be a re-instated route from JFK
San Diego is going to be a re-instated route from JFK
Seattle is going to be a re-instated route from JFK

These are all routes that Delta Airlines cut several years back. They should be no suprize to anyone that frequencts Delta or any of the above markets.

Denver was flown with a 727 and 757
San Deigo was flown with a 757 and 767
Seattle was flown with a 757

The flights were timed to arrive and depart with the European departures and arrivals!


LHR001
 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:02 am


Again, many of these routes are to feed intl paxs. It's not just my opinion, I took it from the analysts:

Ray Neidl, an analyst with Blaylock and Partners in New York, said the Delta effort at JFK could help the airline's international volume, but he doesn't expect it to do much for the airline at home. He also said the effort shouldn't affect JetBlue.

 
rjpieces
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JF

Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:03 am

FoxBravo, I hope you are right!
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:18 am

Here's the link to Delta's press release, this should work:

http://www.delta.com/home/press/tacindex.jsp?file=newnystratrelease.htm&tactype=Current&tacitem=Release&title=Delta%20Air%20Lines%20Announces%20Expansion%20of%20New%20York%20Service;%20New%20Destinations,%20More%20Flights%20from%20John%20F.%20Kennedy%20International

Doesn't sound to major to me--just tweaking an already substantial station. Most of these routes aren't in competition with JetBlue. $300 million sounds to me like a lot to improve baggage handling, signage and air conditioning. For that much money you think they could make some major improvements to the dumpy T2 and T3 buildings themselves, like building a big new common atrium-style ticketing lobby or something.

It's funny how the DL spokeswoman says their "proud history of serving the communities and people of New York State" starts with EWR, almost two decades before entering any airport in New York. And DL didn't serve anyplace north of Westchester until they started moving in on Eastern's Upstate service around 1990. Of course different people have different ideas of what constitutes New York State.  Smile

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
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lindy field
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:42 am

The (re)new(ed) service to SAN will be with more sensible equipment this time. Delta is planning to use 737-800s on the twice daily route, instead of the 757 and 763 of the past. I hope it works for them; I like the prospect of lots of competition from New York to San Diego to keep fares down.
 
prosa
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:45 am

If I'm reading the press release correctly, by the time all is done DL will have an additional 30 daily departures out of JFK including the regionals. Only two out of the 30 will be operated by Song. There's been a lot of talk about Song as the next new thing, even speculation that it would handle all of DL's domestic service at JFK. Yet Song is scarcely part of this expansion. Could that mean DL management is starting to sour on Song?
"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:15 am

Without converting more planes, Song can't be expanded much further.

There is some evidence that DL may not be happy with Song. Song was brought into life under Mullin's tenure, but Mullin isn't CEO anymore. Grinstein is a little more traditional and he may not be as fond of Song.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:33 am

JFK is a major international gateway for DL and putting Song in longhaul feeder flights to Europe does have implications on DL's west coast-Europe competitiveness. Further, one of the primary reasons for starting Song was to upgrade the product in a relatively few select markets while DL and the rest of the industry determine what the correct product is for the entire system going forward. I suspect you will see Delta (like AA) soon make decisions about its overall mainline product rather than just address a few markets as Song has done. If UA grows Ted as fast as they say they will, they will have determined that Ted is the primary product type for them to use throughout the US.
With all respect to Mr. Neidl, a look at the schedules will show that at least half of the new flights do not connect to European flights and are therefore intended to compete for the local market.
Finally, this expansion is largely going to happen with existing DL aircraft and personnel and thus is relatively inexpensive to pull off and will help DL's overall financial performance by spreading more flights are the same fixed cost base.


[Edited 2004-01-28 23:38:03]
 
rjpieces
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JF

Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:42 am

Btw, Delta took out a full 2 page ad in the New York Times today to advertise the new service. I was surprised because it didn't come onto Yahoo Aviation news until around noon, and wasn't on Delta's site until later on.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
ord
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 7:49 am

"It's funny how the DL spokeswoman says their "proud history of serving the communities and people of New York State" starts with EWR, almost two decades before entering any airport in New York."

Am I missing something? Service to "New York" started only a year after Newark:

EWR - February 1956
JFK - May 1957
LGA - October 1969
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:00 am

Im confused, are these Song flights or main line Delta. The press releases I have read so far have been ambigious.

Regardless if it's Song or DL mainline it's not a "major" expansion.

They are adding 4 "new" big jet destinations (SJU, SDQ, SAN, DEN), two of which were previous DL destinations from JFK.

SJU and SDQ are smart choices, they will do well with those routes.

However I would not be looking for a "major" expansion, they have obviously given up on the big $1.5 Billion dollar expansion if they go ahead with the $300 Million rehab of T-2 and T-3.

Why fix up only to tear down, $300 million is probably almost the entire cost to just maintain the structural integretity of the T-3 canopy and fix up the restrooms.

DL's postion in the NYC market is # 3, behind AA #2 and CO #1.

B6 is going to eventually overtake DL as NYC's #3 carrier, this just helps put that off for a little while.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:02 am

Delta made a major investment in JFK when they bought PA assets there. For the longest time, JFK has been dying with DL. Here's another big DL mistake that kick them later (maybe not...you never know). Song was their first major mistake!
 
flyguy1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:07 am

STT:
Only RSW will be Song, the rest of the expansion is mainline/connection. When reading the press release, it seems to state the DL is expanding service now, and will be announcing more expansion to start after September.
Wedgetail:
What do you mean dying?
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:12 am

" it seems to state the DL is expanding service now, and will be announcing more expansion to start after September."

Probably some Seasonal Carribean flying, Cancun, Aruba, Nassau, STT etc..
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:16 am

DL seemed to have a ton of service through JFK when they bought PA. But since then, service has been discontinued to most of Europe on DL. And a lot of "mainline" service has been discontinued through JFK. There's a lot of RJ traffic there. What happened to all the trans-Atlantic service they had during the early 1990's?
 
flyguy1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:24 am

Sure wish I was somewhere in the Carribean right now...
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
flyguy1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:25 am

DL will have 14 nonstop flights per day to Europe ex:JFK this summer, not to shabby.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
Thrust
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:28 am

I hope this means that Delta is going to restart JFK-NRT. Just saw my first photo of a Delta 777 in NRT Love

I also hope Delta in the near future considers expansion to other Asian countries of the Far East besides Japan. Would Osaka be feasible? Doubtful, if you ask me.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:30 am

This one's for you Flyguy1, it's Trunk Bay on the Beautiful Island of St.John in the US Virgin Islands. Ive been there three times and this has to be one of the most beautiful places on Earth! There's an underwater snorkling trail around that island in the Picture, almost all of St.John is a US National Park.

Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:32 am

" hope this means that Delta is going to restart JFK-AA), Japan">NRT. Just saw my first photo of a Delta 777 in AA), Japan">NRT"

Highly doubt any new International expansion from JFK save some new Carribean flying, they lost the slots at AA), Japan">NRT to AA.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
flyguy1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:34 am

Sweet pic, I have been to the Carribean a few times, but I def. want to visit the USVI.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:41 am

I would say this is a pretty major expansion at JFK...by time all is said and done capacity at JFK will be up 40%.

Eventually I could see more int'l flights from JFK to Europe if DL is really serious about rebuilding JFK. However, those wouldn't be launched until 2005.

 
deltaffindfw
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:43 am


If this works for them, and if the pilots agree to cuts, could this be re-start of the huge JFK expansion that DL professed 4 years ago. Maybe after BOS is built and if traffic continues to rise, we will see a new Terminal 2-3.
 
flyguy1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 8:46 am

I doubt DL will ever fly from JFK (or anywhere really) to Asia again. Any international expansion would be to the Carribean, and Europe. Maybe added service to YUL, and YYZ as well.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
PVD757
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:32 am

STT757: been there twice myself...loved it. 1st time was over 15 years ago, before there were any facilities (just a quiet beach). Anyway, nice pic. What do you guys think of the chances that some NE cities that have lost JFK service (and still have none), like BDL, ALB, SYR, PVD, MHT...even with FRJ's, might get new service?
 
flyguy1
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:38 am

PVD 757:
SYR-JFK is served 3x daily by B6 A320's.
727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
 
PVD757
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RE: Delta Announce Major Growth & Investment At JFK

Thu Jan 29, 2004 9:52 am

OOOPS, sorry flyguy, that slipped my mind...let's substitute PWM for SYR then...