beefer
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NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sat Jan 31, 2004 3:57 pm

NWA to keep Avros in Mesaba fleet
Liz Fedor, Star Tribune

Published January 31, 2004

Northwest Airlines will keep its four-engine Avro jets in the Mesaba Airlines fleet, a decision that means the smaller, regional carrier will not lose 40 percent of its revenue.

Mesaba is expected to formally announce Northwest's decision on the Avro next week.

An executive familiar with Northwest's decision said Friday afternoon: "A thorough study was completed and cost efficiencies were identified that allow Mesaba to continue flying the Avros for Northwest."

In response to the news about Northwest's decision, Mesaba's Jackson said, "We have not received any official notification from Northwest Airlines regarding the Avro decision."

Five of the 36 Avros were taken out of Mesaba's fleet in December and January, and they are parked in the Phoenix area.

Now that Northwest has decided to keep the Avros, two of those planes will be returned to Mesaba's schedule in April, and the other three planes will be back in service in June. No further details about the magnitude of the Avro cost savings were available Friday.

In mid-January, Robert Ashcroft, a UBS Investment Research analyst, said, "Northwest Airlines is on the hook for this aircraft whether it uses it or not." He estimated that Northwest has $494 million tied up in the financing of the Avros. Northwest leases 25 of the Avro RJ-85s and owns 11 of them.

"The likely revenue Northwest could expect from leasing the Avro out of the Northwest system would be unlikely to cover more than about half of what Northwest pays in rent and debt service," Ashcroft said in a report.

Northwest's service contract to fly Avros runs through April 25, 2007. That long-term contract has a clause that allows Northwest to terminate the contract early. Northwest could have severed the contract by giving notice in October, but it delayed its decision until December. Northwest postponed the Avro decision a second time, pushing it back until early this year to allow Mesaba time to settle its pilots' contract.

Source: Minneapolis StarTribune
Full Story: http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/4349414.html
 
acidradio
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sat Jan 31, 2004 4:31 pm

Pilots threaten strike, shortly afterwards NWA threatens to "analyze cost effectiveness of RJ85 fleet." NWA claims that this has nothing to do with pilots threatening to strike. Pilots ratify new contract, ending possibilities of a strike. Barely a day later NWA decides the Avros should keep flying.

Hmmm...
Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:37 pm

Great.. Although its fishy, the Baby C-5 will be flying for Mesaba for a while longer.
 
toltommy
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:35 am

It's really no different than when unions atempt to get the cooling off period to end around a holiday. Negotiations are a game, and the side that plays it best wins. Looks like some Mesaba pilots got a good raise, Mesaba got to keep the jets (and the jobs they create), and NW got the same flying done for less. Hard to see a real loser here.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:08 am

Now we just need to give those Avros a real make over since it is decided that they are staying. Most have a really bad paint job, and some the paint is even completely gone on some panels. Not to talk about the interior which has ripped seats, carpets, and seat pockets.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
meister808
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:25 am

Nice to see that they are sticking around. I really get a kick out of those airplanes.


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nwa man
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:31 am

Excellent news... especially for Elites looking for upgrades on Avro routes. One of the best (if not the best) first-to-coach ratios in the industry (16F:53Y).


N-Dub
Create your own luck.
 
rockyracoon
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:41 am

Yay! I'm glad I'll still get to see the little avros flying around. I suppose we'll finally get to see them in the new livery. Any news as to the CVG base/maintanence facility? Will these still be closed down?

peace
 
highliner2
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:15 am

I believe this means that the last DC-9-10s will not get a slight extension on their lives at NW, that's a bit of shame.
Go Cubs!
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:30 am

Now THAT is the first time I have heard ANY airline retire a 2 engine jet rather than a 4 engine jet  Big grin
Puhdiddle
 
MSPXJGuy
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:53 pm

RockyRacoon,

Think that the maint will still be handled out of company in CVG. Really ashame too. I much rather have my own company working on our planes then some other airline. Granted I don't know if there is any studies that its safer but its more pride if a company handles it and think there do a better job. Yes I know I have no solid evidence to back this all up and what not so no bashing messages!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
maiznblu_757
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:32 pm

....DC-9-10s will not get a slight extension on their lives at NW, that's a bit of shame
This sums that statement up very well  Sleepy

 
Continental
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:48 pm

I enjoy the Avros too! I love shooting them at MSP. Hopefully I can fly on one someday (NW, I flew it on LH Cityline already  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

co
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:06 am

I think the Avro ARJ is a neat little plane. Regional Jet with Big Jet Comfort IMHO. IT is much more spacious than the CRJ-40/50 that NW has.
Puhdiddle
 
atcboy73
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:04 am

I got to ride on one of the RJ-85s from MEM to STL a few days ago, sitting in the first row in coach.

It was my first time and I found a few things surprising.

-There is no divider between coach and first class. I can understand why, but still it made for a tacky situation. I know I paid a coach fare and all I really expected was transportation from MEM to STL, and nothing more. This made for an odd scene after the pilot announced that due to rough air there would be no beverage service in the "main cabin".

-I was sitting right under the wing (LOVE that engine sound) and was really surprised to see how small the overhead bins were in that area. It makes since to me, but other people in the row couldn't understand why. One guy was trying to get his big roller bag up in there.


Overall it was a great flight and lots of fun to fly on an a/c I had never been on.

BTW, The interior seemed like it was in pretty good shape.
 
Jano
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:11 am

NWA ARJs are the most comfortable RJs NWA has. Hope they will eventually fix the one which was damaged, when they run it into the jetway.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:20 am

Atcboy73, if you thought the interior was in good shape, you must have been on one of the nicer ARJs. Most of the ones we see here at MSP looks like . Like I said, I hope they get fixed up a little.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
meister808
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:41 am

Think that the maint will still be handled out of company in CVG. I much rather have my own company working on our planes then some other airline.

Explain... I live in the CVG area and I thought that the mx facility there was Mesaba owned and operated... at least that is what the local media said when it was built a few years ago.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
redngold
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 6:59 am

I was on an ARJ coming back home after winter break. It was a 19 minute flight, DTW-CLE, and a very comfortable one at that.

Someone had mentioned before how loud the hydraulics are when the gear and flaps are lowered for landing. Since I was under the wing, I got a good earful of this noise during my flight. Yes, it's loud -- but hey, that means the stuff is operational!

Also, just about three days ago, I was listening to a plane coming overhead on approach for landing on Runway 24L at CLE. As it got closer I heard this loud groaning sound, and I thought "that sounds like the Avro." You see, I was standing close to the reporting point, which is also where most of the pilots choose to lower their gear. And when it came into view, it was an Avro!


redngold

[Edited 2004-02-01 23:01:06]
Up, up and away!
 
Jano
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 7:51 am

re "I got a good earful of this noise during my flight"

That sound is called "Dinosaur roar":D
The Widget Air Line :)
 
YoungDon
Posts: 496
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:13 am

When are the DC9-10's going to be retired, now that the Avro's are staying?

I'm scheduled to fly on two DC9-10's in two weeks!

Don
 
MSPXJGuy
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:11 pm

Meister,

We have a maint base in CVG and until just recently it was Mesaba Mechanics. Now they have some other company do certain maintenence there. Not sure who off the top of my head. Partly why CVG has so many ARJ flights into it out of MSP and assuming DTW. Granted we still have a lease on the hanger.
 
geg2rap
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:16 pm

Let's get to the real question here! When are the ARJ's getting the new paint???
 
atcboy73
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:14 pm

Yes, I also noticed that the hydrology are loud.

I also had never noticed that they don't have an engine reversing system.

Man, I learned a lot about this a/c on my flight. There just are not that many of them in the US and when I lived at MCI we didn't get them on a regular basis, though I guess they do now.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: NWA To Keep Avros In Mesaba Fleet

Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:46 pm

This news comes as no surprise. It was all a ploy toward the pilot's union. All the facts pointed toward the Arvo staying in the first place. Just a big chess match. It kinda stinks that this is what it came down to. It was never an issue about cost-effectiveness. Nothing changed about the aircraft to make it undesirable to fly. And its not like NW has other 70 seaters to fly.

Either way, I hope all this crap is over with. No more bickering among the unions. Hopefully management will shape up too. It would be nice for XJ to stop shrinking, and hopefully go into a growth mode soon. Some new aircraft would be nice too. Anyways, Mesaba can take the title of being the best turboprop operator and also operating the best RJ in the industry.