BA
Topic Author
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MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:09 am

I have been contacted by someone who has some MEA insider info from an MEA pilot. He told me that Air Canada will fly to Beirut this summer and that MEA will be code-sharing on the flight.

MEA was considering flying to Montreal with their own equipment, but not if Air Canada starts it. Since Air Canada will be flying it, they will simply code-share with them.

Also, the MEA pilot says the flight will be on an A340 and not a 767 like it would have been last year.

This isn't official news, it's out of the mouth of a pilot. But I thought it would be worth sharing as he seemed pretty certain about it.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
yegbey01
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:12 am

Any word on the frequency.... summer only or year round.

If MEA codeshare with AC, I see the flight being offered year round (maybe a 767 ot A330 during the winter season)
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:14 am

Yegbey01,

No idea. I emailed him with some more info.

Not sure about the frequency, but I think someone on these forums mentioned 4x weekly.

We'll have to wait and see.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Aviationman
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 3:15 am

Good news! Remember....No smoke without fire. It's probably true!
 
OD720
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:12 am

Has there ever been any non-stop service between Lebanon (BEY) and North America? MEA did fly to JFK but with a tech stop in Paris.

Excellent news. Hope it's true.
 
airxliban
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:17 am

Pan Am used to fly and stop in Beirut on PA 1 and PA 2 but those went via Istanbul on the outbound and via tehran on the inbound I think.

other than that i dunno really. interesting point OD 720.

anyway, look forward to seeing pics of AC A340's in Beirut. maybe this will help pull them out of their economic position.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:30 am

Pan Am 1 flew Washington D.C. - New York - London - Frankfurt - Istanbul - Beirut and I forgot where it continued afterwards, I think Tehran.

I am not 100% sure, but I think for a while it flew via Rome instead of Frankfurt.

Perhaps someone could confirm.

I've heard that for a while, MEA's BEY-ORY-JFK service flew non-stop (BEY-JFK).

I think Salim would know.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
mozart
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:45 am

EXCELLENT!

Another step for BEY to be a bit more "hubbish". What I am also glad about is that this will also change some people's (false) perceptions on BEY and Lebanon. With another prestigious international carrier going there, it surely cannot be that dump some people think it is.

Hope to hear a confirmation soon.
 
hisham
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut

Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:11 am

Yes, MEA did operate BEY-JFK nonstop with the 742. My grandfather has a silver ashtray that commemorates the first nonstop flight. If I remember well that was 1980/1.

Hope th AC rumor is true. But with the US government canceling BA and AF flights, I wonder if they'll allow flights from BEY into North America...

Hisham.
 
behramjee
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:39 am

MEAs A 332 has a much better inflight product than ACs A 340/B 767s and any smart pax would prefer it as Eco class has tvs in every seat plus their A 332s are newer and I think that MEA has an even better J Class product on its A 332s than ACs Exec First on its A 340s.

Anyways if this flight is year round then 4 times a week is ample-perfect with the 280 seater A 343 which is better than ACs B 763ERs.

I wouldnt be surprised if this flight starts in YYZ and carries on to YUL then BEY nonstop like ACs Far East Asian flights with A 340s and B 763s which start in YYZ stop in YVR and then fly transpacific.
 
yegbey01
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:44 am

I suppose starting in YYZ is a possibility. But not a necessity.

But, the A340 will be able to accommodate pax from YEG and YYC as well.

 
MEA321
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:56 am

If this AC flight to Beirut were to become a reality, look for Northwest to join the party. Currently there are 3 daily flights between DTW and YUL, all on small DC9's, so NW would need to upgrade its capacity along this route. Northwest will upgrade to a 757 or A320 most likely to better serve the connecting pax. Also look for AC to add a flight to DTW from YUL, currently they don't fly this route. It will be interesting to see what happens.

MEA321
MEA321
 
yegbey01
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:07 am

MEA 321...

Easy here. There are only so many seats on the plane. There are Lebanese pax who would want connect from all over Canada and the US if this flight come to fruition.

The intent of the YUL-BEY flights is to serve the local community. Getting more connecting pax will water down the profitability of the flight. AC would rather fill the plane with mostly O&D.

Last year, the flights were priced so cheap. I suspect this will be the case this year as well. AC will have no problem filling the plane, but as we have all discussed before, the majority of the pax are VFR...


 
kevin
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:08 am

If this is true than I guess the flight will be really profitable because Canada Lebanon traffic is huge. May be this will save Air Canada from bancrupcy... Big grin
 
MEA321
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:41 am

Yegbey01,

AC is running a business, not a convenience service. At the end of the day, they want to fill seats on every flight whether the pax are connecting from DTW, YUL, JFK, or YEG! It doesnt matter where the pax are coming from. Your statement about "watering down profitability" is unfounded im afraid to say.

MEA321

MEA321
 
flyyul
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 7:50 am

YegBey,

When the flights were first announced, there were connex pax from almost everywhere. Montreal-Lebanon is not enough in terms of O&D to guarantee the flight.

Having worked at NW/CO, there were a lot of angry pax who found out the day of departure that YULBEY was terminated. We got like 20-30 connex pax projected, all of which have to be re-accomodated, primarily via YYZ where there is more space to Europe in the summer.

Mark
 
BA
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:07 am

FLYYUL,

Any idea if the flight will be year-round or only seasonal like last summer (before it was canceled)?

Did you also hear that the flight will be on an A340 this time rather than a 767?

MEA is going to release a ton of info in March along with their plans for Sao Paulo and fleet expansion. Perhaps then we will also hear about the Montreal flight.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
yegbey01
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:08 am

Mark,

I don't know then why AC would want to run the flight out of YUL. It might as well be YYZ-BEY. Better access to many many more pax.

There's a large Lebanese community here in Toronto
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:13 am

Yes, there are many Lebanese in Hamilton.

I have heard however that the YUL flight primarily relied on O&D and not very much connections.....
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
flyyul
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:35 am

YegBey.

They might as well send every flight to YYZ for that matter ..

There is no doubt that the local community in Montreal is the strongest in North.Amer. And you go where you can the largest O&D numbers, for it is the more profitable type of pax travel.

BA,

Since I left NW.. im stuck at home/school where my sources have become more limited in nature  Sad

Mark
 
yegbey01
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 11:29 am

Kevin,

Air Canada's new strategy is to focus on money making routes and not necessarily serving only large European cities (MAD, CPH, FCO which they dropped).

This is why DEL, BEY, GRU, SCL are attractive for AC. They are not very risky because loads are almost guaranteed.
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:52 pm

This always seems to be the "hot" AC topic on A.Net.

BA - Regarding the A340. Highly unlikely unless following the exit from CCAA (Bankruptcy Protection), the A340-500's are liberated from Toulouse, and the A340-600's follow their scheduled delivery patterns. Even still, there is such an equipment shortage, that routes to Asia that operated with A340-300's last year are being saddled down with B767-300's this year. Given yield and profit margins, if A340's of any series materialize, they would first be deployed as follows:
YVR-ICN
YVR-KIX
YYZ-SCL-EZE (Reinstated route Dec/03. Load factor in the high 90's)

KEVIN - The BEY route will save the company from bankruptcy? Full flights do not mean revenue-generating flights. It takes more than one route to sustain a company, and I can think of a dozen routes over the years that have been pulled despite being full. Here's a few:

YYZ-BOM-SIN (via LHR)
YVR-TPE (Reinstated for S2004)
YUL-TLV (Pre-9/11)
YYZ-HNL
YYZ-YMX-ATH
YYZ-CPH & MAD (This year alledgedly over equipment shortage)
YYZ-GLA & MAN & ZRH (All seasonal, and MAN now handed over to BD. Even through the winter when GLA/MAN operated circle route, virtually 100% full)

The whole BEY topic...can't wait to see how it evolves!!

ROD
Above and Beyond
 
flyyul
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 12:56 pm

Rod,

About YVRTPE..

I know its in RES III, but it is not for sale in any reservation system other than RES III.

lastly, can you please send me an email to swissair135@hotmail.com, ive been waiting to ask you some questions of late.

Best Regards,
Mark
 
flyyul
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:25 pm

On the above mentionned list,

I cant understand how in the eyes of AC, that YULBEY can show more promise than YULTLV.

The Montreal jewish community is estimated at almost 100,000 persons. The Lebanese right near 60,000. Each are growing at same paces according to the latest statcan reports.

When AC operated the flights, it did a 5 weekly split YYZ, and 2 weekly split to YUL. It then transferred all flights to YYZ.. YUL was left with nothing. Not to mention that El Al pulled out SPECIFICALLY due to Air Canada's capacity additions.

Mark
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:28 pm

I will find out more info tommorow or the day after.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MEA330
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:00 pm

Hello Guys,

I don't want to always take out the excitement about the MEA rumors you predict but here's a small analysis:

--> MEA is planning to increase frequecies this summer to its present destinations and open CPH
10/wk CAI
11/wk DXB
10/wk JED
10/wk KWI
a lot of other stations will get an extra weekly added
Those additional frequencies will increase utilization of the 9 planes to max: so no YUL or GRU this summer
--> Unless political pressure placed after the president's visit next month to Brazil will result in GRU reopening. His visit will give you a chance to see a New MEA plane in South America for once at least.
--> MEA is rumored to join Skyteam ( partner/associate) this year, so they will have to increase frequencies on present regional routes to build their Hub before starting to venture Long Haul.
--> New types cannot be introduced in a short time frame, so forget about the A340 dream for this summer.With the standardization of the fleet interior/product, MEA will most likely take delivery of new planes only (or fully refurbished used ones) which could take a year if decision taken now.
 
airxliban
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:06 pm

well, it was nice to dream but it is important for MEA to improve their hub before venturing further long haul.

i haven't given up on GRU just yet however.

thanks for the info MEA330
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
MEA310
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:51 pm

FLYYUL

Remember that El Al serves non-stop flights to the US.So pax heading to TLV could connect through JFK & fly non-stop to TLV;therefore AC could serve BEY non-stop thus making it the only direct flight between North America & Lebanon.So the Jewish community should'nt have any problems since their national carrier serves North America..

MEA310
M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:24 am

Thanks for the info MEA330. Any idea if any of the increases you mentioned will be permanent or only for the summer? I'm seeing CPH as running until September 4 only.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
OD720
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:28 am

I was talking to an "insider" today and asked many of the questions that we are discussing here.

It is almost certain now that GRU will be launched this year. Still Dakar is being considered as the most likely stop but also there are talks to operate this route via Madrid!

Also, new aircraft will be brought in, at least 1 A330 and 1 A321 and it appears that these will be short term leases and might come from an airline. Lufthansa could be a candidate here.

As for the AVODs on MEA's fleet. This is definite and comes from a flight attendant. A330s have it and the A321s don't.

This is all I guess for the moment.

Anyone want to comment about the Madrid rumor?

All the best.
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:50 am

OD720,

Since the 1 A330 you say will be only short term leases. Does this mean GRU will only be seasonal?

MEA cannot fly to Sao Paulo without getting another A330. The current 3 aren't sufficient enough.

Madrid sounds interesting.......

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

OD720, could you talk with this "insider" and ask him about CPH? Whether it is seasonal or not?

I'm not really happy with this approach of MEA serving routes only seasonally.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
yegbey01
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:53 am

MEA330,

I don't think many of us had ever predicted that MEA would fly to YUL. It was all about AC flying to BEY and MEA possibly codesharing on that flight.

As far as GRU, if MEA is bringing additional A/C even on a summer wet lease, they could easily accomodate it.

I only see DXb going up to 11 flights per week. Not sure about that KWI, JED and CAI.

Although, these could be for the summer peak.
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:08 am

I have a feeling MEA will be ordering another or two A330, but until they arrive, MEA will be leasing an A330 from another airline.

I have been told the leases will be dry leases, but not permanent.

If MEA places an order within the next few months, they could have them delivered between mid to late 2005.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
OD720
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:48 am

BA,

I asked about the CPH flight and he couldn't tell. I only put the above since he sounded quite sure about them.

This is all for now. We must wait till March to find out more.
 
MEA330
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:56 am

With regard to AVOD, the A321's will have the AVOD installed by summer end(in J class only). This is because MEA is one of the launch customers on the new Thales system which is evolving with time.
Regarding the GRU rumors we'll not enter into any attempt to convince each other which rumor is correct ... Time will tell!
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:53 am

MEA330,

Thanks for the info. Any idea why AVOD will only be added in the J class of the A321s?

Also do you have any idea if in-seat satellite phones will be added in the future?

Would you happen to know anything about the CPH flight? Whether it will be permanent or seasonal? It is showing it as seasonal for me right now...

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MEA321
Posts: 381
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:26 am

BA,

The MEA sales office in Copenhagen confirmed for me that the flight will be seasonal, however ticket sales are going on through October. Currently MEA has sold out in June, there are no more tickets available. Can you say feasible??? July is sold out in two weeks, and August sold out one week. MEA is using the Star Alliance counter in Terminal 2 at CPH for check in and baggage.

MEA321
MEA321
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:32 am

Are you sure ticket sales are going through October? If that's so, then they exceeded their original planned time for the route.

I show the route operating until September 4. Do you think they decided to extend it to October or possibly make it year-round because of the high loads?

MEA's Spring/Summer schedule ends in late October.

Well it would be interesting to find out more....

I think CPH has the potential of being successful year-round, but not on an A330 except during the summer.

It would make sense if MEA downgraded the flight to an A321 and kept operating it.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
yegbey01
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:16 am

MEA321,

There are tons of seats still avilable on the CPH flights. Do you mean seats were scoopped up by consolidators....

 
MEA321
Posts: 381
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:42 pm

The seats are no longer available for sale in June. Sometimes when cargo loads are high, airlines will trade seats for weight so that they can take more cargo. Cargo is much more profitable than passengers. However its too early for this to be the case. The seats in June are sold out, there are no seats left for all the flights MEA is operating in June to CPH. There are seats availabe in July, August, Septemer, and October. The Arab community in Copenhagen has always wanted MEA to come back, now that they did everyone is flocking to get tickets with them.

MEA321
MEA321
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:05 am

MEA321,

If they are selling seats in October, then I think the route is not seasonal. Summer seasonal routes for MEA always end in September. MEA's spring/summer/fall schedule runs from late March to late October, so it would make sense that they aren't selling seats after October. They probably aren't selling any flights after late October yet.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
Topic Author
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:20 pm

FLYACYYZ,

Last summer, MEA was going to do all the ground handling, check-in, etc. for Air Canada.

Do you know if this will be the case for this coming summer?

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
FLYACYYZ
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:42 pm

Again, the whole issue of BEY, is lack of equipment. Have no doubts that if the company is able to secure more aircraft, that would be a step closer to serving YUL-BEY.

My fax from last summer indicated:

AIRPORT CUSTOMER HANDLING by M.E.A.G
whom I presume to be Middle East Airlines Ground Handling

LOUNGE FACILITIES (For eligible customers and Star Alliance Gold Card Holders) MEA 1st Class Lounge

PASSENGER RESERVATIONS and HANDLING by
Lebanese Overseas Services (G.S.A)
Verdun Centre 2000
Beirut
Sita Code: BEYSGAC

Assume all will remain in place if the flights materialize. We'll keep our fingers crossed!

Rod


[Edited 2004-02-03 04:43:36]
Above and Beyond
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:49 pm

FLY ACYYZ,

wouldn't it make more sense to operate the BEY flight out of YYZ...?

I live in Toronto and there are 1000's of Lebanese here
 
BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10133
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:50 pm

FLYACYYZ,

Yes, M.E.A.G is one of MEA's 3 subsidiaries. As you said, it stands for Middle East Airlines Ground Handling.



Oooh nice....AC passengers get to use MEA's Cedar Lounge.......lucky AC passengers.  Smile

It's an extremely nice lounge....

MEA also owns the company that operates and maintains the airport from cleaning toilets to derubberizing the runways:


Basically, MEA has a monopoly over the airport's operations....

Do you know if AC plans to operate the route seasonally or year-round?

I think the route has potential of operating year-round, especially if they code-share with MEA.

Regards
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
flyyul
Posts: 4394
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:55 pm

Now why would it make more sense for AC to fly YYZBEY instead of YULBEY?

The most profitable and important aspect of the market is the local origin and demand traffic, which clearly is more important from Montreal.

Mark
 
yegbey01
Posts: 1349
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:02 pm

Mark,

A lot of folks were saying that the YUL-BEY flight depended on connecting passengers last summer. Some folks even predicted that AC should operate a DTW-YUL.

If that's the case, YYZ would be better positioned.

But I agree.. with the low fares that AC was offering last summer. I think they should discourage conecting pax... which would result in a lower yield.

 
FLYACYYZ
Posts: 1820
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:06 pm

YEGBEY01

Sorry bud. Think Mark has you on this one. According to AC marketing, YYZ was never even considered. I'm from YYZ too..so nothing personal.

Should BEY materialize, if the aircraft is in YYZ and required to position at YUL, rather than operating it with a Rapidair "400" series, it may be designated as an "800" international series tag-on.

ROD
Above and Beyond
 
yegbey01
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:17 pm

Rod,

That was my first thought... O&D will always wins as it generates more yields.
 
BA
Topic Author
Posts: 10133
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RE: MEA Will Code-share On AC's Montreal - Beirut Flt.

Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:48 pm

Yes O&D provides higher yields than transit traffic....

Regards

[Edited 2004-02-03 05:50:01]
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran