HyperMike
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Dec 05, 1999 7:03 am

My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Thu Jan 20, 2000 5:27 am

I mean this in a light-hearted way, but after looking at some cockpit pictures here on airliners.net, I feel a little more comfortable seeing a yoke in front of a pilot.

Just seeing a joystick in front of the pilot makes it look too much like a video game. =)
 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Thu Jan 20, 2000 6:59 am

Just because they don't have a joystick it doesn't mean that it's not fly-by-wire. My main problem with sidesticks such as Airbuses use, is that if a left handed pilot is sitting in the left seat, he/she can't write without removing his/her hand from the stick.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
phil330
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 1:33 pm

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Thu Jan 20, 2000 7:10 am

That's funny, last time I saw a 777 cockpit I'm sure there was a yoke....

Phil
A320/330 pilot.
 
Guest

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Thu Jan 20, 2000 7:22 am

Military jet´s are flown by joystick´s too. So I see no problem about that.
 
Guest

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Thu Jan 20, 2000 7:25 am

One reason that military jets don't have a yoke - and have a joystick - is that so that, if you have to eject, you don't knock your legs off at the knees and once you hit the ground end up walking around 3ft tall - it's nothing whatsoever to do with the flight control system, be it analog or FBW.

The same reason cannot be said for commercial airlines.

It has to be said that in a humerous way, I kinda agree with Hypermike. I would take an L-1011 or MD-11 over any other aircraft given the choice, tho, so I may be a little partial.....




DLMD-11.
 
Guest

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Thu Jan 20, 2000 8:18 am

The only problem with a fly-by-wire system is if there isn't a manual backup system like the 777 has. The Air Force had problems with the fly-by-wire system in the F-16 fighter. If both systems in the fighter failed the only way to save yourself is to eject.
 
Guest

Re:dlmd

Thu Jan 20, 2000 9:13 am

You can be shure there would be a solution to eject safely from a fighter-aircraft even if it had an joke. If there where any advantage against a joystick-control.

Since flown by wire too I wonder why Boeing still puts yoke into cockpits of 777 for example.
 
Guest

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Thu Jan 20, 2000 9:31 am

Believe it or not, the famous sidestick was considered for the 777, but rejected by the pilot design team for whatever reason (probably unfamiliarity).

Besides, how many pilots are busy writing their memoirs at 35,000 feet?
 
dash8tech
Posts: 708
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 1999 8:40 pm

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Thu Jan 20, 2000 11:01 am

Fly by wire isn't so bad. Look at the fact that many FBW systems all told have about 9 redundant backups. Whereas hydraulic...2 or three. As far as the pilot taking his hands off of the yoke to write....if (most airliners anyway) all systems are functioning correctly the pilot only rotates and flares anyway...if that these days! They don't even really have to do that, set the flaps, set the FMS, etc. Then hit the TO/Go Around buttons and the flight director does the rest....except retract/extend the gear and flaps.

Cheers.
 
Delta737
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 11:23 am

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Thu Jan 20, 2000 12:42 pm

Hmm, generally most pilots leave the autopilot off until about 18,000 feet or so and then will generally hand fly the arrival and/or the approach. At least as far as I've seen on the 737.

I'll pop it on thru about 5,000 if we're departing an airport like EWR when you're superbusy during the SID/departure so the non-flying pilot doesn't have to work the radios and set the heading/course bugs and any Flight Director commands.

Fly by wire doesn't really excite me all that much. The only advantages to the fly by wire system are enjoyed by the engineers that designed it and may (maybe not) the mechanics that work on them.

And to answer another question, I'm not too sure of how many pilots are writing notes while they hand fly an aircraft.

Doug Taylor
Delta 737 Pilot
www.jetcareers.com
 
Boeing727
Posts: 816
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 1:32 am

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:56 am

Good point Hypermike. I much rather fly in an airplane that is flown by the cable and pulley system, rather than electric pulses. I strongly believe that every airliner has to have a red button and turn all this computer garbage off. They are helpful in many instances, yes I agree on that, but when the occasion arises a pilot needs to be able to get back to the basics and the reason he/she is in the seat in the first place and that is to "FLY" the aircraft; and not pretent to be a computer programmer supervising a bunch of screens with hundreds of people behind him. I understand that technology will always push this industry further into automation, but there has to be a manual override.

That is my opinion on this topic.

Cheers
 
phil330
Posts: 127
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 1:33 pm

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Fri Jan 21, 2000 3:28 am

Firstly it is rarely the case that whilst hand-flying the aeroplane any pilot will need to write anything, as "Delta737" rightly suggested.

I moved from the 757/767 to the A320/330 around 2 years ago now. At first I was very dubious about the aircraft, and the sidestick, and was unpleased at being changed onto the airbus fleet. After I began training, however, I realised that it is very easy to get used to and has many advantages.

People on this topic appear to be suggesting that fly-by-wire aircraft like the A320 and 777 do not have an autopilot disconnect button?! There is a "manual over-ride" on every aircraft as far as I know, fly-by-wire types are no exception. The only thing that is different is the way the hydraulic control surfaces are moved (via electrical systems rather than metal cables, which is a huge weight saving and has been proven to be safer and less likely to fail).

Another misconception is that if the computers on fly-by-wire aircraft fail all control is lost and the aircraft plummets to the ground. In fact all aircraft have backup control systems, and on the A320 and 777 hydraulic links are still in place allowing the aircraft to be flown in the one in a billion chance of a complete computer failure.

Fly-by-wire is the future of aircraft technology, it is like the difference between a typewriter and a word processor. Boeing entered the fly-by-wire market itself with the 777, and until a successor is found to this method of control the manufacturer will never depart from it, and no new Boeing will ever be made again without FBW controls.

Phil
A320/330 pilot

(p.s. moving back to the 757/767 this March for family reasons for those who are interested!)
 
Delta737
Posts: 469
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 1999 11:23 am

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Fri Jan 21, 2000 4:55 am

I forgot to mention too is that the 737 isn't a fly by wire aircraft, but even then, we'll pop on the autopilot and it'll occassionally make us think "what he heck is it doing?"

Or even sometimes you'll couple it up for an approach and it'll make a weird move and you'll simply disengage it and hand fly the approach.

Just keep in mind that the aircraft flies on Newton and Bernoulli, not Microsoft and Intel!  

Doug Taylor
Delta 737 FO
www.jetcareers.com
 
Guest

RE: My Problems With Fly-by-wire

Fri Jan 21, 2000 7:23 am

Just imagine what Newton and Bernoulli would have used Microsoft and Intel for.

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