airmale
Posts: 7125
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:48 pm

772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:46 pm

Discussion at another forum states that the airline will not be allowed nonstops to the US due to security concerns, if thats the case they may convert their ordrs for the type to the ER version or the 744. Crew rest areas overhead have also been removed from the ER versions.
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Udo
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Thu Feb 05, 2004 11:52 pm

I have always wondered if there's enough demand to offer 18/19-hour nonstop flights to the US from Pakistan. The B772LR order seems a bit strange indeed.
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:35 am

Range is not the say-all-to-end-all...

...like the 744ER vs 744: should an airline choose to limit a 772LR to the range specifications of its predecessor; the former can carry 22tons greater payload, and do so with a nigh-linear increase in aggregate cost (so claims Boeing).




Also, are PK's birds 772LRETs, or de-tanked? ...Hamlet?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
The777Man
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:03 am

I also read this post in the other forum. I disagree and think that PIA will be allowed nonstop flights to the US. Other carriers from "sensitive areas" like KU, SV etc already fly nonstop to the US and their flights haven't even been cancelled like AF or BA. I also think there's enoguh demand from several US cities to Pakistan and they will also carry connecting traffic to other parts of that region.

Also, the -200LR can be used to carry more payload than the -200ER but used on similiar routes as the -200ER.

I'm a bit surprised that they took out the crew rest facility; maybe this is temporary or they didn't want the extra weight that it adds to the aircraft ?

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
kaitak
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:32 am

I think you also need to consider that it's more than just the distance that matters; PIA is known for particularly high temperatures and that being the case, PK may need a particularly high MTOW aircraft.

With regard to n/s flights, why not? They already fly to the US and all they need is the aircraft than can do it n/s. Why should it matter if they stop at MAN or not?

What's the situation re-PK's ex Air Jamaica A310s? When are they being delivered? Reggies?
 
The777Man
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:37 am

Kaitak:

As for the A310s: AP-BGO already in service for a few weeks now and AP-BGP to be in service shortly if not already.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
behramjee
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:34 am

The main question is WHY would anyone WANT to fly carriers like BIMAN-AIR INDIA and PIA nonstop for more than 10 hours...let alone 15-17 hrs nonstop from S Asia to USA!!!

Thats such a long flight no matter how good or bad the airline is and in the 3 cases mentioned above v v v v bad.

I wouldnt even take ACs nonstop YYZ-DEL flight as its way too long and doesnt have tvs in eco class on every seat. I prefer one stop routes to India-Pak via a European major city like FRA-AMS-CDG or LHR.
 
airmale
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:54 am

PIA's 777s have PTV in Y class, and a 3-3-3 configuration, but still I would'nt fly them or any airline nonstop on any route above 7-8 hours.
.....up there with the best!
 
rojo
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:15 am

The main question is WHY would anyone WANT to fly carriers like BIMAN-AIR INDIA and PIA nonstop for more than 10 hours...let alone 15-17 hrs nonstop from S Asia to USA!!!

The answer will be that people like flying their national carrier and doesn't matter if it is a 1, 5, 10 or 15 hour flight. I can see it with Mexicana in the United States. Although MX has the benefit of having Mexico close to the US, it is amazing the number of Mexican citizens they fly between the two countries. What Mexican want is to fly on an airline were they can feel identified. This has been the great success of AM and MX in the US market. I flew AM from JFK to Mexico City in December and it was amazing the number of Mexicans flying the route. The first thing you will think is that AM must sell cheap tickets for those flights. The reality is that AM only opens J, Y, B and M fare buckets for those flights and the cheapest ticket you can get is $550USD. Mexicans don't care about the price, as long as you fly them with a Mexican airlines and if you charge them for excess luggage, they will pay it without complaining. I know there might be some exceptions, but believe me, AM and MX have most of the "ethnic" Mexican traffic between the US and Mexico and it is quite lucrative. Same case should apply to PIA...
 
soamsky
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:41 am

RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 6:49 am

"Mexicans don't care about the price, as long as you fly them with a Mexican airlines and if you charge them for excess luggage, they will pay it without complaining."
Heck they should!!. now if you're saying that service in the Mexican carriers is better than the American ones, there is a point. Otherwise TJPD
Soar the blue of the South American Sky
 
rojo
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Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:40 am

It is not the service, since they don't buy the ticket just for getting food on the airplane; I have seen people take out their wallets and try to pay for the food when the flight attendant are serving, so they don't choose the airline for that... It is that they know they will deal with people that speak spanish all the way (from the ticket counter to the flight attendants, to the ground staff), and that more Mexicans will be in the same flight!!! It is how most of the Mexican culture behaves.

PIA must know this and they want to offer non-stop flights!
 
Thrust
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 9:49 am

The 772LR is in service already? Wow!
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:22 am

no
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
AMM744
Posts: 202
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:31 am

Thrusty...

It's some 22 months away - much can happen in that time.
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:34 am

Should be added that the aircraft does go into production this October though, and will actually be available for delivery Mid2005 should any purchaser request it

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Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
behramjee
Posts: 4344
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:16 am

PIA and AIR INDIA are mainly popular with old people travelling back and forth between UK-USA-CAN and PAK-IND because it saves them the hassle of changing planes and airlines in transit at major European hubs which is a large burden for old men and women especially if theyre flying with their grand children.

PK and AI are also popular with families (4-5 and more) travelling together due to the less hassle involved and the nonstop flight involoving no transit-gate change etc from Pak-Ind to USA-UK-CAN.

Any idea on the seating capacity of PKs B 773ERs and -200LRs? Their B 772ERs are fitted with 327 seats in J & Y.

BIMAN desperately needs something to replace its dinosaur era DC 10-30s ASAP.
 
PIA777
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 2:16 pm

The reason why WE like flying PIA or any of "THOSE" airlines is because they will not take one look at you and label you as a terrorist like some
American carriers do.

PIA777
GO CUBS!!
 
ahsanf28
Posts: 84
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Fri Feb 06, 2004 8:30 pm

People fly airlines like Biman, PIA and Air India on long range flights for various reasons. The main reason being the avoidance of hassle of changing planes at busy hubs as pointed out by BEHRAMJEE. The nationals of the countries mentioned also feel proud to be on board national flag carriers and feel at home the very moment they step on board. Many foreighners also prefer these small Asian carriers for service with a personal touch and cheaper connections to other asian points like destinations in the far east. Biman carries a lot of back-packer tourists from N. America/Europe for onward connections to Kathmandu, Bangkok, Singapore, Tokyo, Hongkong and Kualalampur.
So these airlines do need long-range aircraft and buying 777LR was not a wrong decision for PIA. Besides PIA operates flights to Canada and prohibiting the 777s to land at US airports doesn't necessarily stops them from flying across the atlantic.

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bluethunder
Posts: 58
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RE: 772LR For PIA A Mistake?

Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:12 am

I have to put my two cents woth here.

"The main question is WHY would anyone WANT to fly carriers like BIMAN-AIR INDIA and PIA nonstop for more than 10 hours...let alone 15-17 hrs nonstop from S Asia to USA!!!"


"The answer will be that people like flying their national carrier and doesn't matter if it is a 1, 5, 10 or 15 hour flight. "

Two comments made earlier have merits and demerits and only time will
which is true. I can personally speak on this matter.

For the longest time i flew air india because i felt alot of Pride when i flew home from the US. For over 10 years i kept flyingit out of patriotism and national pride. However, the service was disappointing to say the least. So you can expect many others to keep doing that. However, there was layover where we got off the plane in and had time to stretch out and "cool" down the frustrations.

But when you fly for 17/18 hours in the same plane with the same bad service and the same "unclean" toilets - i donno how many can handle that.

I tried out Srilankan airlines after my frustration over took my patriotism and it took almost 10 years. From now on - on my way home - i will fly Srilanakan not because i am less patriotic but because i just could not bear to sit in an AI plane for over 10 hours.

The most important point to consider here is 2, 10 hour flights, Vs one 17/18 hour flight.......

PS - the times are not the exact but you know what i am saying.