alphascan
Posts: 795
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AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:12 am

AirTran CEO Joe Leonard said yesterday that no new cities would be added in 2004. 20% ASM growth will come from adding increased frequencies and "connecting the dots" among cities already served. He expects 2 or 3 new cities will be added in 2005.

[Edited 2004-02-06 20:17:27]
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
learjet25
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:51 am

RE: AirTran:

Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:14 am

Sounds smart to me. I think they have it right. I am actually slightly concerned about what adding a new type (737) will do to their structure. As far as maintenance and such.
 
luv2fly
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RE: AirTran:

Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:16 am

What happened with the pick our next city poll they did on the web site?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
alphascan
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:04 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:19 am

Learjet:

He addressed that issue too. Here is the link.

http://www.wallstreetwebcasting.com/webcast/rjgac/aai/
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
sebwhite
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:23 am

Top pick for connecting the dots:

BUF/ROC - BOS

What else?
 
RareBear
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:25 am

Oh well. I guess us CHS travellers will have to suffer at least another year with these absurd airfares.
Illegitimus non carborundum
 
scottysair
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:40 am

Oh well! This is no new city this year of 2004 and it should need to get with their new city next year of 2005. It should need to wait and please have be patient with them.
 
toltommy
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:19 am

Didn't WN say "No new cities" at one time, and then shock us all w/ PHL?
 
CVGpilot
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:35 am

As far as I know as of the 5th of FEB Air Tran is running 2 NEW flight a day out of DAY-BOS or JFK, cant remember....
Globally Yours
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:35 am

Top pick for connecting the dots: BUF/ROC - BOS What else?

That'd be my favorite.  Smile Only low-fare service will restart these once-thriving, now moribund routes with their handful of US ERJ's. Some other good candidates:

MSP-BWI. There's been no low-fare service between the Twin Cities and the DC-Balto Metroglom since Sun Country. Also MSP-DFW, if AirTran is up for a fight.
DAY-BWI
MEM-BWI
FNT-BWI. Despite Southwest at both DTW and BWI, they don't fly between the two cities. Spirit doesn't fly DTW-DCA. Their loss. Another opening for AirTran.
MSP-BOS. Northwest would probably go apes--t on this one, so DOJ would have to watch closely.
PHL-MSP and PHL-DFW. Two routes WN won't be flying from PHL.  Smile

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:38 am

Also, if AirTran can snag some more LGA slots:

JAX-LGA No JetBlue in Jaguar country.
MKE-LGA No JetBlue here either.
DAY-LGA. I can just hear the refugees from Cincy revving up their motors to drive up I-75 to fly this route.
MCI-LGA. No Vanguard any more.


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
scottysair
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:45 am

Yes, that is one of last time was flies out of MCI to LGA with Vanguard from last 2 years ago and it was shutdown with their company.
 
flyCMH
Posts: 2134
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 1999 12:15 pm

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 6:56 am

CVGpilot and DCA-ROCguy:

AirTran announced that they will begin daily DAY-BWI service a few months ago. Twice daily flights start on 11 Feb. with a 717 and a CRJ.

[Edited 2004-02-06 23:01:46]
 
elwood64151
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 8:56 am

Right now, the airline isn't looking for any new cities.

I seriously doubt they were looking for eight new cities in 2002, but it happened.

In any event, while they may not be adding cities, they'll certainly be adding frequencies and routes. And routes, after all, are what's important (if they're not overdoing the service, anyway...).
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:16 am

I agree, Elwood. AirTran would probably respond to market changes, as they did in 2002. That in addition to whatever dot-connecting they do.

For instance, if US Airways goes Ch. 7, AirTran will probably add several new cities fairly quickly. I think SYR, ALB, RIC, IND, SDF, and PVD are probably good candidates. There's demand out there, it just won't pay enough to cover US Airways' cost structure. AirTran's cash balance more than tripled and their debt dropped substantially in 2003, so they'll be in a good position if US goes kerflooie.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
727LOVER
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:26 am

AirTran's cash balance more than tripled and their debt dropped substantially in 2003

Really??? WOW!  Wow!

SRQ --please, please, please, please, please, please!
I feel woozy....what did you put in that Pudding Pop?
 
Trvlr
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 9:35 am

Does anyone think this announcement is a veiled concession that AirTran has not had great success against Delta on the west coast? Considering the ferocity with which AirTran attacked LAX, LAS, and SFO last year, I would think they'd be eyeing SEA, PHX, and SAN for 2004. Just a theory.

However, a simpler explanation could be that AirTran is just waiting for their 737s before expanding further into the mid-con market.

Aaron G.
 
dsuairptman
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:20 am

Well, I think we can all agree that there are markets, that in a debatable sense, could benefit from FN in '04. However this 'internal' expansion, so to say, appears like a sound plan. By strengthing the current system through
added frequncies and dot connecting, FN may be strengthing the system for expansion demand starting in '05; this is when we'll see many 73NGs and new 717s come on line and after pilot traning (in the case of the 737) FN will have to have somewhere to fly them, so I think that focusing on enternal expansion is a sort of preperation for a much bigger operation this time next year.

While most of you guys so far have focused on the iron belt and New England for dot connecting, I'd like to take things down south.

additonal GPT-ATL frequncies would be a major boost for this market. FN flights to and from are packed, the need for 2x more dailies is needed, partiurlary morning and evening flts, to complment mid-day flts all ready operating. This would bring the connections into GPT up to the standard 4x most FN makets have to ATL, and provide greater frequency and serivce at a time of day higher-yeilding business pax fly.

Weekday (at least) 717 or CRJ flt GPT-BWI. Weather you know it or not, GPT produces a lot of gov't travelers up to the DC area, and BWI on FN would provide low cost, non stop, travel to these mostly business oriented pax.

GPT-MCO could support a flt, possibly just a weekly freq., but the market does have its travel demands for Mickey Mouse Country.

Also, in that 'pick the city' fourm on FN website, two markets I remember seeing could probaly support/need LCC servic. TYS and SHV, TYS is just a stone's throw from ATL, but it's only service to its biggest connecting hub is DL to ATL, which probaly means highway robbery prices.
SHV-ATL, in '03 SHV lost a lot of seats w/ the withdraw of mainline DL, the market is served strictly by regionals now and LCC service could benefit this market greatly. Wouldn't be ironic to see a big LCC parked at the gate DL M88s used to operate out of here?
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
srbmod
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:32 pm

FN? Don't you mean FL? FN is the code for Regional Airlines (Maroc).

I have to agree about adding flights to GPT. The lack of a morning flight and a later in the evening flight sends some pax over to Delta, who offers more frequencies through ASA. AirTran did once operate flights to GPT from HOU, DFW, TPA, MCO, and FLL; only FLL and TPA have a daily to GPT. The loads on the other routes did not warrant keeping the service. I am surprised that they don't offer BWI-GPT, or even a IAD-GPT. As for TYS as a future city, the loads were not all that great when they served there previously; the only time flights to TYS were full were during football season. I mean there were times we'd send a 732 up there with maybe a dozen pax and it would return with about the same load. Same would hold true with DC-9 flights as well. It could work better since they've got a better route network than before, and I have noticed that many of the DL mainline flights to TYS are using MD-88s, so the city could support a mix of 717s and CRJs from AirTran.
 
usairways85
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:47 pm

Is there any validity to the rumor that Airtran may possibily leave IAD? With the growing BWI presence and if they get the slots for 2 more flts to ATL from DCA will they need IAD.
 
alphascan
Posts: 795
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:04 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:33 pm

DCA-ROCguy:

Actually Joe Leonard did qualify his remark about no new cities with "depending on the market situation" and after reading your post I'll bet that qualification came because of the situation at USAir. Good call!
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
InnocuousFox
Posts: 2556
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:30 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:56 am

*sigh* I guess that counts us out here in OMA.
Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:31 am

AirTran has also quietly increased frequencies in many markets over that last couple years. The most successful city-pair, believe it or not, is BOS-BWI which now has 8 nonstops. ATL-DFW, FLL, LGA, MDW & TPA are up to 8 nonstops per day as well.

Some dot-connection I've heard rumored about lately include: DFW-GPT, PHL-RDU-FLL, MKE-LAX, MKE-LAS, and a return to to PIT-PHL. This is in addition to the previously discussed build-up of DFW (although this now appears will come more gradually).
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:39 am

You'd think that with US nearing Ch.7, the LCC (AirTran especially) would be piling on the pressure in the North East to help accelerate the process. Unless somebody starts offering decent alternative service to US's sparse RJ service to secondary cities in New England, NY and PA, the free-for-all that's going to happen when US does finally bite the big one is going to be massive and very bruising. I'm sure it would be far better to enter an existing US route and be there as the alternative incumbent should US go bung, rather than scrambling to implement new routes should the worst happen. And if US doesn't go bung, a little healthy competition never hurt anyone, right ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:16 am

AirTran has also quietly increased frequencies in many markets over that last couple years. The most successful city-pair, believe it or not, is BOS-BWI which now has 8 nonstops. ATL-DFW, FLL, LGA, MDW & TPA are up to 8 nonstops per day as well.

Someone in AirTran route planning probably got a big promotion out of that one. BWI-BOS had languished ever since Southwest built up BWI-PVD and BWI-MHT; by late 2001 even US wasn't flying mainline a/c on BWI-BOS anymore.

But guess what, folks--lots of people still want to go to Logan, right in downtown Boston, and the prize was there for the LCC that wanted to brave the Airport from Hell. BWI-BOS was a winner right out of the gate; that route has had more frequencies even than the successful BWI-ATL route during FL's entire period at BWI.

Meanwhile, Southwest keeps making money on big traffic to PVD and MHT. The winners? The travelers of Eastern New England. Good work, AirTran.

JGP and Alphascan--AirTran may well be quietly studying a lot of those intra-Northeast routes on which US now can only make money with RJ's and DeHavilland's. I agree, FL could probably get into a number of those routes and markets before US's demise, and establish itself.

I wonder if FL figures it'd be less costly to wait for an actual US Ch. 7, something that still is in a little doubt. By waiting for the actual Ch. 7 they wouldn't the incumbent to deal with at all. AirTran is also more nimble than Southwest, and could get SYR, RIC etc. stations up and running more quickly and with less expense because they're willing to enter with fewer than 10 dailies. JetBlue won't have its EMB-190's for another year, so they probably wouldn't enter many of these routes with 156-seat a/c.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
gr8slvrflt
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 1:23 am

By holding off on new cities, AirTran is in a much better position to pounce on new opportunites. Supposing FL got the Shuttle from US? Extend and expand the agreement with Ryan Int'l (say ten A320s 'til the end of 2005), add a few more RJs from AirWis and trim a frequency here and there and you have enough 717s and crews to run a first class shuttle operation.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
B757capt
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:39 am

Don't forget about the west coast. All those new planes and no new routes to add. I don't belive it. we shall see!
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 5:44 am

Don't forget about the west coast. All those new planes and no new routes to add. I don't belive it. we shall see!

At what rate is AirTran receiving the 73G's? If I remember right it's around a 100-a/c order. You're right, B757, FL won't need all of them to fly to the West Coast. Some will probably replace some 717's on dense routes from ATL like LGA, MCO, BWI, and FLL. Thus freeing up 717's to open new markets and routes in US Airways country.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
decman
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 7:55 am

Well, a lot of people if PA would be very happy to see Air Tran return tp PIT-PHl, becuase US airways prices are highway robbery.
 
N323ER
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2000 5:44 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:34 am

Those new routes to DAY are out of BWI they will start on Feb 11th one flight will be a CRJ (Air Wis) and the other will be a mainline 717. As for the whole new cities thing, I think as of right now we might not be saying no but probably before the year is out we might have two more but that is just my opinion. I have heard talk about PDX and SEA

RYAN AIRTRAN(BWIOPS)
RYAN SCAIFE
 
trijetfan1
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:39 am

Why don't they serve CLE?
Earned PPL June 26, 2007
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3890
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:54 am

Decman--AirTran did run PIT-PHL during 2001, I think it was, with four dailies. But the route is mostly business travelers. At that time, companies were willing to pay for these business travelers' demands for US Airways frequent flyer miles. So AirTran couldn't make a go of it. Things might be different today, but AirTran hasn't been willing to try again so far.

TriJetFan1--I've heard that AirTran chose CAK instead of CLE because they couldn't get gates at CLE, but can't confirm that. It certainly would be consistent with the terrible mismanagement of CLE during the past decade; JetBlue approached CLE in the late 1990's and was fumbled. If anyone has definite information on why AirTran didn't enter CLE, please share!

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
srbmod
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Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 1:32 pm

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:05 am

The first 737s will be used to replace the Ryan Int'l A320s. There may be an increase in frequencies on the west coast routes as additional 737s come into the fleet this year. The 737s will probably get placed on ATL-MCO so they can redeploy the 717s onto other routes. West coast expansion into other cities will probably not happen until around the second quarter of 2005, for by that time there should enough 737s in the fleet in which to open new markets out west. They are due to receive one 737 a month starting in June with the last ones due in 2008.
 
graham697
Posts: 344
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2003 11:59 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:59 am

What about opening a western hub like LAX? They could move some free 717s to the west and some to the NE.


graham at TPA
America's Favorite Airport
Looking forward to the new AA
 
DCAYOW
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:24 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:49 am

DCA-ROCguy:

Spirit is trying to get more slots at DCA to commence DCA-DTW. Watch out Northwest !

Retorne ao céu...
 
PVD757
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RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:09 am

Airtran is not going into PHL more than they already are.

PVD757 not at TPA.
America's Second Favorite Airport

 Laugh out loud
 
DCA-ROCguy
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Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:10 am

DCA-ROCguy: Spirit is trying to get more slots at DCA to commence DCA-DTW. Watch out Northwest !

Thanks be to God. Detroit is one of the largest remaining domestic markets from the DC area to which there isn't low-fare competition. Last summer I tried with two months' notice to book flights from this area to Detroit for a friend's wedding, and couldn't find anything less than $300 rt. To Cleveland, round trips of $100 or less were available due to WN.

Jim

Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
usairways85
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:02 am

PVD757
I dont know Airtran just added 6 flts a day into PHL for this winter season and they could very well keep most of them year round. I would look for Airtran to continue to keep PHL in mind when adding more service, especially with Southwest coming in and they will be competing directly with Airtran on 2 routes
 
wedgetail737
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:17 am

Srbmod...

Air Tran will get their first two 737-700's in the first month, then 1 per month after that.
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 2852
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:52 am

Top pick for connecting the dots:

BUF/ROC - BOS

What else?


I read an article in the D&C awhile back that what's his face (our airport director) is trying to get JetBlue to start ROC-BOS runs when they get their 190's. I heard the same with BUF. I guess it's a matter of who gets there first. I'm sure JetBlue won't serve the route if AirTran does. There's just not enough market for competition between ROC/BUF and BOS.

My guesses would be more flights from DFW and BWI. AirTran is the type to start service to routes that are already packed with competition, so I'm not taking anything off the table right now.

JetBluefan1
 
DCA-ROCguy
Posts: 3890
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2000 5:03 am

RE: AirTran: No New Cities In 2004

Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:15 pm

I read an article in the D&C awhile back that what's his face (our airport director) is trying to get JetBlue to start ROC-BOS runs when they get their 190's. I heard the same with BUF. I guess it's a matter of who gets there first. I'm sure JetBlue won't serve the route if AirTran does. There's just not enough market for competition between ROC/BUF and BOS.

Slaybaugh is on the ball, as usual. I hope County Exec Maggie Brooks continues to be as aggressive in courting new air service as Jack Doyle was. Whatever his faults, Doyle did really push hard to improve air service at ROC. I agree, it's a matter of who gets there first. If JetBlue does it with 190's, they might even be able to do three dailies since they'd have only 100 seats per flight to fill, rather than 118.

Ditto on DFW and BWI. There's lots of potential at both markets, and AirTran's got lots of new 717's on the way. If they're willing to tangle with AA on BWI-DFW, I'll bet that BWI-MSP is not far behind. No Southwest on that city-pair either.

Jim


Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)

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