QantasA332
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When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:38 am

No, you read that right -- nowhere did I mention NWA DC9s!  Big grin

With QF's 767 fleet aging and the previously domestic A330s being moved to international routes, it seems as if a domestic workhorse replacement is needed. When do you think Qantas' 767s will be replaced, and with what? A32X? 7E7? 767-400?

qantasA332

 
high_flyr69
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:44 am

QF's 762's as most will know are very close to extinction there are barely a handful left. the 763's are roughly around 14 years old on average so i think QF will stick with the 763's for a while yet. If QF were to replace the 763's i would think 7E7 might be on the cards.
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high_flyr69
Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice Doggy' until you find the shot gun
 
Akumas
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:04 am

7E7 for Domestic? Sounds Good  Smile
 
dalecary
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:09 am

I understand that QF is still interested in the 739X and may launch the plane(if it is ever launched). The 739X will have similar pax capacity to the 762s but obviously way less cargo capacity.
On the WB front, I still think(no evidence,just my thoughts) that QF is hovering b/w more 330s and 7E7s(maybe combined with 777s). The 330s have proved less than adequate on short-haul domestic services but seem far better on the MEL/SYD-PER sectors. The 7E7,on paper, looks better equipped for short-haul services and is being designed for this role. QF must be having a good look at it. The base model is a touch smaller than the 332 and significantly lighter, seemingly making it a better domestic workhorse. Don't know if QF have a definite role for the 777 at this stage,in both terms of capacity and range. It has always been a bit big for them and really wouldn't suit domestic ops to any significant degree, but it's potential on international sectors is certainly high. Maybe they will go with the entire 7E7 family, as they seem happier having something smaller than a 772ER for longer-thinner routes.
You just never know with QF, but I think they have yet to be convinced that the A330 is the complete 767 replacement package and exercising of further 330 options is far from certain.

Dale.
 
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yyz717
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:28 am

Looks like a mix of the 332/333. Hopefully the 7E7 also.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
BD1959
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:33 am

Can anyone shed some light on exactly what is happening with the A330-200s? The QF announcement that it was going to a 2 series full-service domestic operation using 737s and 767s was reported here and has been repeated often (inc this http://www.qantas.com.au/infodetail/about/investors/trafficStats/October2003.pdf ).

It has since been announced that certain routes will be upgraded using the A330s (see http://www.qantas.com.au/regions/dyn/au/publicaffairs/details?ArticleID=2004/jan04/3017) inc MEL-CNS and BNE-PER.

So what's the story? AJ?


BD1959
 
SafetyDude
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 9:53 am

No, you read that right -- nowhere did I mention NWA DC9s!
Well, that just gets rids of all of my jokes...Congratulations, you set us all straight  Laugh out loud

I would think that the 320 would not be an adequate replacement, because of the range/pax ratio. 330 would make sense.

 Smile
-Will
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tullamarine
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:50 am

Over the next year QF will be transferring their lower yielding routes to Jetstar. This means the overall capacity of the mainline domestic fleet will decline and will be replaced by Jetstar's capacity. Only yesterday Geoff Dixon said that Jetstar eventually aims to be 33% of the domestic market. Currently QF mainline domestic is about 67% of the market so much of Jetstar's growth will come at the expense of mainline. In effect the 762s are being replaced by Jetstar's A320s.

In years to come a replacement for the 763s will have to be found but given mainline domestic will be a very different beast by then it is proably too early to speculate what type of plane that will be.
717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772/E/W,300,310,319,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,ATR
 
AJ
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 10:59 am

BD1959, I don't want the 767 to go so I'm blocking this entire conversation  Big grin.

I think Tullamarine's summary sums it up.
 
dalecary
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:50 pm

Is Dixon saying that Jetstar(JQ) will have 33% of the total domestic market by 200??? or is he saying they are aiming to have 1/3 of the new buisiness generated over a specific time-period???. I have been trying to find the interview without success.
Whatever, I believe QF will eventually require a 763 WB replacement on domestic routes(look at the prevelance of 767s on the MEL-SYD-BNE golden triangle now). Being slot constrained,SYD airport will always have WBs flying to the larger cities(particularly on the Eastern seaboard). Downgrading QF 763s to JQ 320s wouldn't seem to be a smart move out of SYD to me.
Still, there is no real need for QF to replace 763s yet. They are still relatively young and seem to do their job well. But when the time comes, the WB domestic routes could only be operated by 330/7E7. The 330 has proved to be less than ideal, and that is why I think Boeing has a real chance to garner a QF 7E7 order.

Dale.
 
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Ryan h
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 2:02 pm

I think that Jet Star will take over most domestic routes while Qantas will concentrate on the busy domestic routes on the east coast and international flights.
South Australian Spotter www.ryanhothersall.net
 
tullamarine
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:04 pm

717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772/E/W,300,310,319,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,ATR
 
BD1959
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:47 pm

Hi Dale,

I saw the Business Sunday programme - it was not a very well edited piece to try and understand who was planning what and where. Full transcript here: http://businesssunday.ninemsn.com.au/businesssunday/Interviews/stories/story_2001.asp there's nothing here about Jetstar having 33% - like Tullamarine, I remember it being mentioned (or has that been "inserted" by the Fairfax Press Reports today?) - so is this really a "full" transcript?

However, I'm sure Dixon has stated in the past that Jetstar will have to compete with QF Full Service head-to-head, which kind of rules out a cosy little carving up of the current network.

On 1 December Dixon stated: "JetStar will concentrate on growing this (leisure) market with value fares while opening up new destinations". Dixon was again quoted in Asia Business on 24 January this year as stating "We do not believe it will affect the Qantas business. We believe that provided we get the cost base right - and we are determined to do that - we will be able to run it in the same market as Qantas without affecting its brand or affecting its profitability."

Whatever, QANTAS has shown over the last 18months or so that whatever is current today does not necessarily apply tomorrow (is this the reason for the A332 U turn on Domestic routes?).

Interestingly, I've a flight booked in July for MEL-BME - just the sort of "leisure market" that JetStar should be looking at. QF are currently running this flight, though I don't imagine that will be the case in 12months time. As QF have recently started a similar flight pattern to BME ex SYD (presumably using a 738 which would otherwise be sitting idle overnight) this seems like a very sensible use of *current* assets. I'm sure QF have a plan for the mix of 738/763/332. Contradictrary press releases about who's doing what with which doesn't help us to understand it - but then neither will DJ.

BD1959
 
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BNE
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Mon Feb 09, 2004 6:18 pm

I can see the "What are Qantas going to do with their 767s" argument continue for the next 10 years, kind of like those NW DC9 questions.

Jetstar will gradually take over more of the domestic flying so maybe the Qantas 767s may get replaced by Jetstar A321s. I don't think anyone really knows whats going to happen in the next 10 years. Ask Qantas staff and you would probably get 10 different answers. It all depends on the success of Jetstar. If Jetstar works then the Qantas 767 might disappear all together and replaced by Jetstar 767s.

If the Boeing 7E7 is lighter than the A330 then maybe that might have a chance. It would have to be suited to the Australia short leg domestic BNE-SYD-MEL triangle.

From my local paper the Jetstar 1/3 was in this story.
http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,8621126%255E3122,00.html

Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
dalecary
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RE: When And With What Will Qantas Replace Their B767s

Tue Feb 10, 2004 6:27 am

Thanks for the links guys.

Much appreciated.

Dale.