Motorhussy
Topic Author
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What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:35 pm

So what happened to these independent and iconic British airlines? Did they go the way of BOAC and BEA and get absorbed into the vortex that is British Airways? Or is there another story/stories? What happened?
come visit the south pacific
 
worldoftui
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:40 pm

Dan Air were absorbed into British Airways, as were British Caledonian.
Britannia are still going, part of the TUI Group. Although they have been rebranded as Thomson, they will still carry the "operated by Britannia" wording and the company name will continue to remain as Britannia.


Mark
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:59 pm

Dan Air tried to take on BA at LGW and got brought to its knees by some predatory pricing - BA then bought the assets when Dan Air went bust, and some of the 737-400's based at LGW in BA colours are ex-Dan Air.

British Caledonian was a BA subsidiary all along i think, and was eventually brought fully into the BA group, with part of the company being renamed Caledonian and flying charter ops with ex-BA L1011s i think - they used these tristars for years (lovely planes been on them a few times - best charter airline ive ever been on too) - then they were boutgh out and renamed Flying Colours - the Tristars were sold, and so were the couple of DC10s they used. Flying Colours didnt last long, and became JMC, which in turn became Thomas Cook in 2002 - another very good charter airline.

Britannia was another excellent charter airline - flown with them so many times! They were if i recall correctly, either linked, affiliated to, or owned by the Lunn Poly group for a long time - all the Lunn Poly holidays used to fly with them. They took over Orion Airways in the late 80s - and i got to fly one of the britannia 737-300's - ex Orion Air - back in 1988 before they were sold in favour of more 757 and 762 aircraft - I heard Britannia were the launch customers for the 762 - not sure if thats true. Britannia always had a Swedish subsidiary too as i recall, with some Swedish registered planes. Anyway, BY got bought by the Preussag Group in 2000, and retained its livery and corporate branding only to lose it when the Preussag Group (including the Hapag Lloyd group of companies) became TUI. - The really nice Britannia livery is being phased out in favour of the uniform TUI livery of light blue with that smiley red logo on the tail and Britannia titles.

Hope that helps.

Rgds,

CM
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
TRENT500
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:59 pm

Slightly off topic.....i've flown on all three carriers!
 
Motorhussy
Topic Author
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britanni

Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:00 pm

Worldoftui

Cheers for that!

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
Capital146
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:05 pm

BCal went in 1987 (or was it '88?). They were taken over by BA even though BCal were not in bad shape and were not on the brink of collapse. BA got its hands on BCal's large European network from LGW as well as BCal's intercontinental routes. BCal's charter airline, CalAir, was merged into BA's charter airline, British Airtours, to become Caledonian Airways.

Dan Air were on the brink of collapse when BA took them over in 1992, and again, BA gained lucrative european scheduled routes from LGW. All of DA's charter program were dropped.

Yes, Britannia are still operational, though in my opinion are being 'cheapened' by parent group TUI who have decided to rebrand them as Thomson and have introduced the hideous pale blue c/s with silly smile on the tail which replaced the classic blue and white stirpes with the image of Britannia of the tail.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
willo
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:29 am

Not 100 per cent, but I thought British Caledonian was formed by a merger of British United and Caledonian Airways. Either way, they're now long gone.
 
ANA
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:38 am

DanAir was apprently forced upon BA when Virgin thought about buying it. BA then paid a high price for DanAir when Virgin, in reality, didn't actually want it.

Anders
 
JGPH1A
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:00 am

ANA - re 'BA then paid a high price for DanAir '

No they didn't. BA paid GBP1.00 for DanAir.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ANA
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:13 am

oh, ok! Sorry about that.

Anders
 
VSGirl
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:18 am

We will have Monarch Airlines, they are kinda of independent...

Kimberly.
 
FlyingColours
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:45 am

As My name indicates I must get involved in this one,

Willo - That is correct, BCAL was a result of British United and Caledonian merging.

To set the record straight, Flying Colours was a seperate airline to CKT - KT. They never operated the L1011 or DC-10. CKT - KT was British Airtours (NO relation to MYT/AIH) and the BA DC-10 and L1011 fleets. They tried to use the old Caledonian name, Flying Colours was created by Thomas Cook whilst Caledonian (CKT) was purchased by another tour operator from BA. Thomas Cook eventually took over this tour operator and subsequently bought Caledonian. They merged Caledonian and Flying Colours on 1st September 1999 having returned all L1011s back to the lessor. The new airline was called JMC - John Mason Cook, nobody had a clue what JMC meant so they called it Thomas Koch.

British Airtours was BA's feable attempt at a charter airline, they handed over the KT to Caledonian - I Remember this becayse the British Airtours flight that burnt at MAN was KTxx. Flying Colours was FCL / MT (Manchester Traffic apparently) and although the FCL is dead MT was passed on to JMC. CKT along with KT faded away.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
jmc757
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 3:56 am

Phil good accurate info there. just to complete your post-BA Caledonian story, when sold by BA theyended up in the hands of tour operator Inspirations.
The Inpirations owned Caledonian was a far cry from the glory days of BCal. they were not even a good charter airline, bad reputation, old equipment etc etc. Thomas Cook bought Inspirations and Caledonian came with it. JMC was born the only aircraft retained being 2 DC10s and a few 320s.
 
airways6max
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:03 am

Britannia is still flying, only with a generic color scheme, as part of TUI. British Caledonian got absorbed into British Airways in 1988. Dan Air folded in 1992.
 
Guest

RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:07 am

Whatever happened to Cymru Airways International?

Regards..

Chris
 
FlyingColours
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:09 am

I know I have already said my bit but;

Orion was taken over by Thomson Holidays, after a while they changed their name to Britannia - they were not taken over by an airline. It was a case of their parent company being bought by another company, ironic really as Thomson got bought by someone who sold to TUI. They are now operating in terrible colours under the Thomson banner with tacky 'Operated by Britannia' stickers just like those (but smaller than) the 'Powered by Condor' stickers.

Dan Air started loosing too much money and eventually folded, my teacher used to work for Dan Air - Among others. She never flew on the comet though so I can't hear any stories about it.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
luxair66
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:07 am

I've flown on a Dan Air Comet. Fantastic aircraft. I've also flown on a CV990 (Spantax) and a Trident. Alas, like the aforementioned airlines, now all gone.
 
Capital146
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:15 am

Time for some photo's I reckon.

I really miss Dan-Air. Where else would you get such a diverse short-haul jet fleet like what they had with 1-11's/146/732/733/734/722/A300.


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Photo © Martin Oertle
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Photo © Toni Marimon



BCal, again sadly missed.  Crying
They were a quality airline.


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Photo © Andrew Harvey



And finally, the once proud looking Britannia which has gone from looking like this:


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Photo © Mariusz Siecinski
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Photo © Mariusz Siecinski



To this HORRIBLE rebranded image.  Pissed
Shame on TUI for what they have done to Britannia's image.


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Photo © Charles Falk




Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
Jaspike
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:20 am

Britannia is a brilliant airline. I love it, and you don't hear too many complaints about them either!

I wasn't too pleased when they got the TUI image... the first one that is:


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Photo © Joe Pries - A.T. TEAM



But I grew to like it, sort of...When it still said Britannia..

But now it only says Britannia on the nose. Haven't made up my mind yet on whether I like the Thomson livery or not.


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Photo © Derek
Pedley - AirTeamImages



Josh
 
shankly
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:27 am

"I wish they all could be Caledonian"

"I wish they all could be Caledonian"

"I wish they all could be Caledonian Girlllllls"
L1011 - P F M
 
babybus
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:00 am

I wasn't surprised when Dan-Air went bust, sad but not surprised. I was the ramp agent for the first inbound and second outbound of their first day of scheduled services from LGW-CDG. For the outbound I remember getting a memo thrust into my hand basically saying they didn't give a shit about Y class and everything must be concentrated on J class. Maybe not the best way to start their first day. It was all down hill after that.

The rest is history.
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
willo
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:13 pm

As Babybus says it was no great surprise when Dan-Air folded. I always got the impression of them being on the brink of going under. I think most people dreaded finding their holiday flight was with them as they had perception of being very downmarket - there were standing jokes of the "Dan-Dare" variety at the time.

My first ever flight was on a Dan-Air Comet VCE-LGW and then over the years flew many times on their 727's, LGW-TLV. The planes were always a bit shabby but that was probably because they had been around the block a few times. Also flew on a British United BAC111 LGW-BOH on a schools "flight experience" trip. It was actually a position flight for an onward trip to Spain, so rather than fly empty they filled it with screaming kids at 5GBP a head. We knew how to lives in them days......... Sorry, getting all nostalgic and slipping off topic!!
 
worldoftui
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:35 pm

With regard to the poor reputation of Caledonian Airways, this was in part due to the poor reliability of the Tristars during their final seasons. This caused some bad publicity, something which the tabloids jumped upon.

If I remember correct, the aircraft were maintained by British Airways. Caledonian looked to sue British Airways as they felt that they had been let down. Not sure if it actually got to court, but I think BA settled out of court with Caledonian for a considerable sum. Of course by then, the damage was done and Caledonian was on the way out for good.


Mark
 
diesel1
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:58 pm

Hi all..

A couple of things about the thread..

ANA / JGPH1A.. British Airways paid £1 for Dan Air, but also took on all of its debt - many millions of £GBP, all of which had to be repaid, so the real cost was much greater than the £1. Dan Air didn't come cheap.

I flew many times with Dan Air, and although service wasn't up to today's UK charter carriers I always enjoyed the flights - I flew DA 1-11-300/1-11-500/Comet4/727-200/737-200

EGFFbmi... it was Airways International Cymru (not Cymru Airways International), they went out of business in early 1988.
They had subleased their B737-300 (G BNCT) to a carrier in the USA, but this airline didn't pay, and they ran out of money and ceased operations.
Worth looking for the story where the AIC crew tried to repossess the aircraft, but failed!
Think there were issues around the B737-300 not have the right permits to fly in the USA hence the problems.

I flew with AIC in 1985 from BRS-ZTH on their B737-200 - pretty rough and ready and showing many signs of its previous life with Britannia.

AIC was definitely on a bit of a poor footing regarding finances, and had struggled over the previous couple of years prior to their demise, though they had started to pick up charters for Thomson holidays and their inflight service was much apparaently improved.



I don't like signatures...
 
charliecossie
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:28 pm

worldoftui:
BA stopped maintaining the Caledonian Tristars in the early 90's. I know, I was there. By then, Caledonian were not wholly owned by BA and had their own management. This Caladonian "management" team thought BA were too expensive so took their business elsewhere. That's when the real rot set in.

Caledonian had zero links to British Caledonian.

Those of us who worked at Gatwick (BCal) wondered, for many years, how Dan Air kept going and it was no real surprise when they ceased ops. Cost BA a lot of money. Sadly, BA also treated the Dan Air staff very badly.

The final Dan Air 737s were recently retired by BA.

BCal's charter airline was not merged into Airtours. BCal sold it to Rank before the BA takeover.

BA most definitely DID NOT want BCal. King was forced (by Thatcher) to buy it, thereby ensuring SAS did not get their hands on it. BA had no interest in operating from Gatwick. Didn't then, don't now.

 
airchabum
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RE: What Of Dan Air, British Caledonian & Britannia?

Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:58 pm

Re the BA takeover of Dan-Air (from someone who was there at the end  Crying ) we were very close to going bust a couple of years prior to Nov 1992, but the demise of Air Europe meant the banks gave us a stay of execution. During the 2nd half of 1992 there were rumours constantly circulating about who was likely to take over DA; BA and VS being the 2 that cropped up most often. In the end BA were the only interested party and the DA board were forced to accept their offer as the only other option was to declare the airline bankrupt.

There was a lot of resentment at the time towards BA but they got what they wanted out of the deal and were under no obligation to do any more than that. They provided a redundancy package for the staff at DA and retained a large number of the crew. What did cause a problem (amongst the flight-deck at least) was that BA would only offer contracts to those who were qualified on the 737 fleet whereas the pilots and BALPA wanted the jobs allocated in order of seniority. This dispute dragged on for years and I presume it was either dropped or resolved in BA's favour.

DA had decided to become a purely scheduled service carrier before the BA takeover and had already made plans to retire the 727/1-11 fleets, concentrating on the 737/146. Unfortunately the costs associated with starting so many new routes together with the world recession and fallout from the first Gulf War, coupled with the unwillingness of the banks to prop the airline up through the winter months meant that this would never happen.

Happy days at the time though  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Biggidy biggidy bong