bigpappa
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:01 pm

BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:14 pm


ok
I live right underneath the flightpath at heathrow and constantly get woken up at 5 in the morning by these BA 747's .
Could anyone let me know how old are they because they are so loud and noisy. I know they come from long distances like Australia, Singapore etc but why do they have to fly in that time in the morning.......
one good flight deserves another!!!!
 
donder10
Posts: 6944
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:21 pm

Most arrive earlier than their PTA.And I agree that the 744 seem a lot louder than the 777s and 340s.
 
9V-SVE
Posts: 1953
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2001 7:51 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:22 pm

Probably because business travellers like arriving at their destinations in the morning...
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
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RE: BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:22 pm

Arrival at LHR @0500 (not before!) is becasue of convenient departure times in Oz and Far East.

Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
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RE: BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:31 pm

Not just BA's - QF, CX, SA)">AA, VS, SA, GF, BI, MH, UA, SV, NZ all have heavies arriving between 0430 and 0700 most days.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
bigpappa
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:01 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:32 pm

very unconvenient for us at areas around heathrow  Sad
one good flight deserves another!!!!
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:39 pm

"Arrival at LHR @0500 (not before!) is becasue of convenient departure times in Oz and Far East."

Actually, that's not true: some flights have a scheduled arrival time of before 0500, and, from experience, are normally early. These include BA016, routing SYD-SIN-LHR, which has a scheduled arrival time of 0455, and (from 30 Oct) VS201, routing HKG-LHR, which will have a scheduled arrival time of 0450. (This VS flight is operated by the 346 and not the 744, but it still arrives before 0500.)
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Delboy
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RE: BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:42 pm

Bigpappa

With only four posts and no info of any interest about you in your profile, am I right to assume you have no interest in aviation and are just here to stir things up.

The airport has been there since before you were born, with much noisier jets arriving and departing. Suggest you move if it's getting under your skin!!!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:45 pm

Agreed, Delboy ! Bigpappa should think himself lucky he doesn't live near CDG - they'd have expropriated his house years ago and built a runway over it, no questions asked !
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:07 pm

The Hong Kong flights are at least 2-3 of them  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
SpeedbirdHeavy
Posts: 414
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RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:14 am

very unconvenient for us at areas around heathrow

Did you not see an airport before you moved in???
China Airlines...Come fry with us!
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:26 am

convenient departure times in Oz and Far East

Perhaps I should have said 'because of restrictions on night time take offs around midnight in Far East!'

Pity we can't use forum for advertising, otherwise you might wish to let us know your house is on the market, or at least give us some details about yourself in your Profile!


Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
CanadianNorth
Posts: 3133
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:41 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:33 am

In most cases the airport was there before the houses, so if you dont like the noise then dont buy a house near an airport... what part of that is so hard to understand?

But yes if you have a meeting at say 9 am intstead of getting there the day before it is more convenient to arrive early that morning and going str8 to wherever you need to be. Its also handy for tourists, as when they get there they can get there bags and find a motel and all that and still have a chunk of day left over to go look around...





CanadianNorth
What could possibly go wrong?
 
5NEOO
Posts: 205
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 4:16 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:21 am

A good chunk of BA's 744's arrive at LHR at 5am onwards. Flights from LOS, JNB and NBO arrive between 5 and 5:30am
Admit it, you could care less about the continent Africa!
 
anstar
Posts: 2870
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RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:43 am

NIMBY!

Start running
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:49 am

Seen your young age, I guess that B747's (and much louder ones) where already thundering down at LHR before you were born, so I ask myself: who has to go, the people buying a house just underneath the approach path, or the airport (being their already for years and years).

Frederic
 
bigpappa
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:01 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:01 am



---------------------------------------------------------------------
Seen your young age, I guess that B747's (and much louder ones) where already thundering down at LHR before you were born, so I ask myself: who has to go, the people buying a house just underneath the approach path, or the airport (being their already for years and years).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

i guess you havent lived near an airport
one good flight deserves another!!!!
 
by738
Posts: 2443
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:10 am

I thought there was some sort of curfew and it was only after this time regular scheduled flights could start to arrive.
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:11 am


I only live around 3 miles from MAN; my aunt about a mile and a half from MAN, my school was 2 miles from MAN and can say that I've never been inconvenienced by aircraft at all - of course I hear planes (typically Ryanair and PIA) but it's not a constant noise.

I'm more nervous about the lack of noise at night time that occurs around the festive period as I live on one of the main roads into Manchester City Centre; I would suggest that if LHR didn't have early arrivals, you'd certainly notice it.

As for the arrival times, not too sure but I'm sure that they try to delay the arrivals so that they come after 5 am so as not to eat into the night-time quota that exists.

David
 
Sabena 690
Posts: 6065
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 12:48 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:13 am

My advantage is that I even wouldn't wake up when a bomb would explode besides me...  Big grin

While asleep this summer right under the departing aircrafts at BRU, they had to wake me up when an MD11 took off (we were there with a bunch of spotters)  Big grin Hadn't heard it although it was 4am, and the window (just besides my head) was open since it was a very hot night...

You had the choice: living near an airport or not. You chosed to live there, the consequences are for you...

Frederic
 
Jaspike
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:40 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:17 am

With only four posts and no info of any interest about you in your profile, am I right to assume you have no interest in aviation and are just here to stir things up.

Come on guys, no need to go accusing people of things straight away  Smile

Could anyone let me know how old are they because they are so loud and noisy. I know they come from long distances like Australia, Singapore etc but why do they have to fly in that time in the morning.......

He was just asking about the age of the aircraft and why they fly at that time - normal questions for an aviation forum!  Laugh out loud

Luckily I don't live near the EMA flight path, I just hear sirens, traffic... etc.

Josh

[Edited 2004-02-11 22:19:10]
 
bigpappa
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:01 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:18 am


yes but when we brought the house we didn't know that these aircraft will be coming in at 5am in the morning. Why should I move house. It would have been fine if it wasn't like that because IM not affected by them all other times but when you do shift work and get disturbed then your not happy.

another thing its not bad in the summer its the winter months when the noise is worse.
one good flight deserves another!!!!
 
bigpappa
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:01 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:20 am


thank you jaspike  Smile
one good flight deserves another!!!!
 
maiznblu_757
Posts: 4952
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2002 12:05 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:21 am

very unconvenient for us at areas around heathrow

One word...

RELOCATE!
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 7:39 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:27 am


So what time do you suggest they come in? 6 hours later and affect a different load of shift workers? Or howabout 12 hours and another load of shiftworkers to be upset.

You know, things like airports aren't exactly difficult to hide; planes arrive/depart at LHR every minute for around 15 or 16 hours every day, so unless you spent about 30 seconds in the suburb (including viewing time at the property!), then you would have noticed the planes - perhaps you ought to be asking questions of the estate agent? Besides, LHR arrivals are available on the BAA website or on Ceefax/Teletext so you could have seen some possible problems in choosing to live near there.

David
 
A340600
Posts: 3893
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:41 am

Hang on guys the guy asked us a question

I'll answer it then lol

BA's 744s range in age.

The G-BNL* lot are the older ones G-BNLA bing delivered in June 1989.

The G-CIV* lot were next G-CIVA being delivered in 1993. There is a huge gap beteewn that and G-CIVZ which was dlivered in 1998 and was BA's 50th Boeing 747-400!!!

Then finally come th G-BYG* lot. The newest BA 744 G-BYGG was delivered in 1999 and was the company's 57th Boeing 747 making BA the 744s biggest customer

Cheers
Sam Laugh out loud
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1419
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:53 am

Actually I'm quite symppathetic to bigpappa. Pre 6.00am arrivals and the associated noise does affect alot of residents of West London, not just those in Feltham, Hounslow and Hatton Cross.

Don't get me wrong, I'm interested in aviation but even after a long stretch (over 12 hours) at LHR, photographing etc, the noise does irritate. Just try putting up with it on a daily basis.

Not surprisingly, the old 'you shouldn't live next to an airport' argument has been trotted out. I would say to some of the non UK residents, I don't think you can appreciate the sheer number of aircraft movements until you see it. As for relocating, the big problem for people working and living around London is the lack of affordable property. People are generally being pushed out into the outskirts of London. Moreover, I think some non resident contributors don't realise how cramped living in the UK is!

Obviously there always should be an element of 'buyer beware' in any purchase but it is a known fact that estate agents in that part of the world tend to show clients around during the quieter periods of the day a they are aware of the runway rotation system at Heathrow.

As for shift workers, moving arrival times, say half to a full hour, wouldn't make an awful lot of difference.
 
G-CIVP
Posts: 1419
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 6:38 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:57 am

A340600 and bigpappa.

Just to add, the noise the BA B747's produce is unrelated to their age! They all have the same engine type, (RB211-524's off the top of my head).
 
anstar
Posts: 2870
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:57 am

2 words Double Glazing!

I live under the LHR flight path and also get planes zipping even lower going to LCY however since the doublce glazing went in its no problem! I love watching the planes from my window on approach to LHR

ANstar
 
A340600
Posts: 3893
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:09 am

Actually i know that about the engines lol, but BIGPAPPA asked that question

Sam Laugh out loud
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
dc863
Posts: 1466
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 10:52 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:19 am

I don't know how long you've lived in the house BigPappa but at least you're not living under the flightpath of 707s, DC-8s, Tridents, 747-100s, and VC-10s. 747-400s might be somewhat noisy but compared to the abovementioned aircraft they are very quiet.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:23 am

Double glazing is almost always the answer.

I have lived directly under the flight path at IAD, and do currently live under it at DCA.

Really, the airport is there. You can't do anything about it.

N
 
goboeing
Posts: 2430
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 5:31 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:06 am

yes but when we brought the house we didn't know that these aircraft will be coming in at 5am in the morning

Oh please. That's the stupidest comment I've read in this entire thread. Did you really think an airport of this size

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wouldn't be a 24 hour a day operation? Expect to hear more of this as long as you live where you are right now

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Nick
 
LFutia
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RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:17 am

A little bit off topic but in India, heavies arrive from 10.00pm to 3.00 am and they depart from 1.00am to 5.00am EU flights and AI leaves around 6.00am and there are poor people living basically at the airport right next to the runway. Same thing goes for Mumbai!

Leo/ORD
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
DeltaRampPIT
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:19 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:18 am

Let me know when you want to sell! I would be glad to move in.
 
HNLFlyBoy
Posts: 318
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RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:51 pm

I wouldn't be complaining, I'd be out having my coffee and watching them come in! I lived in El Segundo, CA just blocks from LAX and all afternoon would sit in my backyard and watch the heavies take-off. It was beautiful.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 3:57 pm

2 AM in NYC and older 747 cargo planes are taking off from JFK, I'm enjoying myself  Smile
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
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RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:00 pm

In the bottom right pic that GoBoeing posted, it says there is a 6:00 AM landing curfew at LHF and planes must hold and wait until after 6 AM to land. Is this true?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
B747-4U3
Posts: 617
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2002 8:08 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:16 pm

I have no sympathy whatsoever for people who choose to live by airports and then moan. The problem is, most of the people who live by airports work and them and use them to go on holiday so they have no real right to moan.

I think the economic development of a country comes before everything else, and thus I think people who live near airports should shut up and just be pleased that the airport hasn't expanded over their house (yet).
 
dukebluedevil
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:13 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:18 pm

DFW bought our house in Dallas to build a runway on it when I was a kid, and I remember I used to LOVE sitting out there and watch the planes take off. Sadly we had to move out. I love London and would love to have a home right by Heathrow. I would never get anything done!

There is no reason to enforce a landing curfew, the people who live around the airport know how busy it is and can expect the sound of airplanes incessantly. At this point it is up to the purchaser's discretion.
 
Snoopy
Posts: 355
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2001 9:14 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:42 pm

G-CIVP wrote:

"Obviously there always should be an element of 'buyer beware' in any purchase but it is a known fact that estate agents in that part of the world tend to show clients around during the quieter periods of the day a they are aware of the runway rotation system at Heathrow."

How right you are! I was looking for a house near Zurich in Switzerland and an agent offered me a house in Wangen. I had done army service on the air base in Duebendorf and knew that the noise would be deafening. I asked the agent what the noise was like and she said: "Not bad at all, it's actually quite quiet". She set up the visit at 1pm (when the base was quiet for lunch). I purposefully arrived late and at 2pm the first jets started up...it was priceless! The whole building shook and it was impossible to even hear oneself think. "Quite quiet. Really?" I said...you should have seen the look on her face. Needless to say, she didn't get any more business from us.
 
An-225
Posts: 3859
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2000 2:55 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:50 pm

You know, I used to live near Domodedovo. Non-stop IL-62, Tu-154, Tu-134, Yak-40 and 43, An-24, 12 and 26, IL-76 and 86, and an occasional loud IL-18. You have it much quieter than we did, believe me. And I never complained, I enjoyed it. So, quit your whining, or relocate... If I was in your position, I'd just stay home with my camera and never get anything done.

Alex.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
 
LH423
Posts: 5868
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 1999 6:27 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:34 pm

Oh please. That's the stupidest comment I've read in this entire thread. Did you really think an airport of this size...wouldn't be a 24 hour a day operation? Expect to hear more of this as long as you live where you are right now

Actually, LHR is not a 24 hour operation. I'm not sure when the last planes are allowed to depart (I'm pretty sure it's 2300 but could be as early as 2200 or as late as 0000) but, I remember reading (it may have since changed), the airport is technically not supposed to be open to regular traffic until 0600 (howver, as noted, there are about 5-10 exceptions made that arrive between 0445 and 0600).

Nonetheless, it's the main gateway to the UK by air and a major source of income for the British economy. You can either live with it and realize that, due to its importance, LHR will not be going anywhere anytime soon and will, in any case, only get busier with time or you can save your money and move off to Surrey...you'll get your peace and quiet there no doubt.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
EZYAirbus
Posts: 2322
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:57 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:50 pm

Hey people, i think some of you are being quite unfair to BigPappa, as Jaspike said, he only asked a question about why the aircraft are landing at those times.

"Oh please. That's the stupidest comment I've read in this entire thread. Did you really think an airport of this size" - Goboeing do you not think this comment is a bit harsh? give the poor guy a chance he new to this forum!

Glenn
http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
 
Delboy
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 12:57 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:12 pm


Maybe my original post about having no interest in avaition was a little harsh, sorry pappa.

However, anyone moving to the area surrounding a major international airport must be dreaming if they think that flights will only start after breakfast and finish at tea time. Heathrow, as quite rightly stated by LH423, is NOT a 24hr airport but in the world of aviation it's not unreasonable to expect some disturbance from the flights. At least they change runways during the day to reduce the amount of disruption to any one area.

Double glazing is one answer, moving is another. You should have carried out a bit more research before you (or your family) purchased your property. I know I would have asked the estate agent for a few more details before I shelled out my cash. Failing that, you should have logged onto the airport website where you would have seen the flight times.



 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:54 pm

have contacted mayor livingston and he assured the west enders that he would take care of the problem..............yea right a tax stamp on you car to park at lhr...........to pay for the sound proofing of those ww2 era buildings
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16015
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:43 pm

Going back to the days I studied public and private nuisance (both torts), I remember there being a case (I can't remember the name and I don't have my books to search) which involved a chicken farmer and a private resident. If I recall correctly, the chicken farmer had been in the same location for many years. He bred the beasts and they made a predictably loud noise early in the morning. The private resident had just moved in and had his or her sleep distrupted for quite a while, as a direct result of the chickens' noise (he or she could not get full enjoyment of his or her land). Essentially, it went to court and the claimaint (the private resident) won - and the chicken farmer had to stop operating. Perhaps you should get together with every other resident near Heathrow who has had his or her enjoyment of his or her land reduced, by the noise or something else, and sue the bastards. I'll be the counsel for you on a pro bono basis. Big grin Hmm. Don't see a good outcome, mind.  Wink/being sarcastic
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
manzoori
Posts: 1459
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:08 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:57 pm

Thanks for that James! Big grin

Sadly though this brings to mind a quote from someone to the effect that 'The law is an Ass'... how on earth can this legal ruling have come about? But then again we hear of cases with bizarre outcomes all the time eh?

-Woman Spills hot coffe in own lap and sue McDonalds

-Man gets drunk, rides bike home and rides into back of parked car and successfuly sues the bike manufacturer for not providing lights!?!?!

etc etc....

It's a mad mad world!

Anyway, coming back to the topic, I thought LHR was a 24hr operation but with reduced levels of movements at night to keep the residents happy?

Also, whilst the RB211-524s are noisier than say the Trent 800s on a 777, isn't most of the noise attributed to the flaps, gear etc?

Cheers!

Rez
 Big thumbs up
Flightlineimages DOT Com Photographer & Web Editor. RR Turbines Specialist
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 9:42 pm

The simplest and probably cheapest solution in the long run is to expropriate (a la francais) all propertly within a 3 mile radius of LHR, bulldoze it, and build 2 new parallel runways. That way the landing paths could be alternated between 4 runways instead of 2, reducing the nuisance to the poor annoyed millionaires of Richmond, and considerably enhancing the natural beauty of West London by concreting over Harmondsworth.

As for Red Ken, the best thing he could do would be expropriate the LHR Express and make it a free shuttle. Down with Capitalism.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Delboy
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2001 12:57 am

RE: BA 747's At 5am

Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:15 pm

JGPH1A

Ooo no, can't do that. The park at the end of Myrtle Road (or is it Avenue, whatever!) is brilliant if they are using 27L for landing. Can't possibly loose this.

I've always wanted to own the last few houses on the right, as you go down the road, then rent them out to spotters at silly money prices. Maybe if I win the new Euro lottery this weekend.................but then again, I'd probably moan about the noise!!