andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

Scrapping Starships?

Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:33 pm

I noticed this pic on the #1 page today:


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Photo © Serge Bailleul



I remember reading somewhere that all Starships were being scrapped due to some problems... seems like someone said Raytheon was buying them back from customers so they could scrap them. Does anyone know why?

Ironically, I was in BHM last weekend, and saw a Starship parked on the FAA ramp. Appearantly some are still flying!

Any info would be great! Thanks!
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
Tony Lu
Posts: 473
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2000 8:48 pm

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:54 pm

What is a starship?

Tony
 
FlyingColours
Posts: 2202
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 3:13 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:55 pm

Those funny looking props in the bottom right are the starships.

Phil
FlyingColours
Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:58 pm

They don't want to pay to keep a support chain for 50 aircraft up.

They are scraping them to keep the ones the owners won't sell in parts.

Unfortunatly Raytheon has decided to burn the cabins rather then donate them to tech schools or to museums.

The latter not getting them is particularly sad. That was a revolutionary aircraft deserving of preservation.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
SlamClick
Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 7:09 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:10 am

And somewhere, Bill Lear and his fans (pun intended) are smiling.

Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
 
CcrlR
Posts: 2187
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:24 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 12:53 am

They should have saved and sent them to maintenance schools and Museums like the Udvar-Hazy Center. Bill lear must be turning over in his grave now. Thank god his Learjet is in the center.
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
Setjet
Posts: 1140
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 12:54 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:18 am

Check out this great Starship site for more details.

http://www.starshipdiaries.com/

This is an image I took in July 2003 over Marana:

 
IslandHopperCO
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:09 pm

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:07 am

What a crying shame! My userid here used to be BeechStarship...they are the most wicked sweet business props ever made! Look at a pic of one in flight and you'll see what I mean. Not to mention revolutionary high-tech features for it's time. Raytheon/Beech must have lost an absolute fortune on this project.

Wonder how much they offered the owners to get them back? If I owned one, they'd have to pry it from my cold dead hands!
 
miles_mechanic
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 4:30 pm

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:58 am

Hey everyone, it is too bad about the Starship being scrapped instead of being placed in a museum, as others have mentioned it was a awesome looking airplane.

The one question that I have, is because of its awesome looks and use of canards, has anyone tried to build this same looking aircraft but with jet engines to compete with the rest of the business jets? I think it would be a awesome looking aircraft with jet engines.

Thanks for any info on this
Miles
 
ZASpringboks
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 8:47 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:26 am

Starships are junk. A lemon in the auto world. That's what people say, at least! I heard the wings contain a foamy material to keep the wings light. That's all great, but the foam rots inside of the wing making the wing useless. I heard this was a major problem for Raytheon. That is what some guy at Raytheon told me. Who knows? All I know is that there is a flight line of useless Starships sitting at ICT.

Cheers!
 
TWAMD-80
Posts: 962
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:25 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:42 am

Hey if they're givin those Starships away I'd be thrilled to take one!!

TW
Two A-4's, left ten o'clock level continue left turn!
 
vikkyvik
Posts: 11860
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 1:58 pm

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:53 am

From what I've learned, the Starship was a starry-eyed but impractical venture in the first place, and it took attention away from the Beech King Air, which was a much more practical and efficient airplane. The Starship suffers from the same problems that plague canard designs, such as the main wings not being as close to the center of gravity as one might desire. That, along with various other issues, made the Starship an uneconomical venture. Gotta say though, they look damn cool.
~Vik
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
JetChaser
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 11:15 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:54 am


Miles_mechanic
I think an attempt to make a Starship with jets was done previous to the Starship. The one I am thinking of was called a Lear Fan. Perhaps someone else can clarify or confirm/deny this, in any event the one I am thinking of was shelved many years ago.

JetChaser
 
EMBQA
Posts: 7798
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:52 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:56 am

The biggest and really only down fall of the Starship was that it never lived up to its performance expectations. Fuel burn was never met and Max speed feel far short of initial design specs.....and thus few aircraft where manufactured and sold. With only 50 airframes out on the market, Raytheon was finding it harder and harder to support it as MANY parts where Starship specific. AS of January 1st 2004, Raytheon was buying back all 50 aircraft with a offer of a 'deal' on any Raytheon / Hawker product. All aircraft where to be SCRAPPED due to any liability reasons.

If any of you have access to Aviation International News there was a great artical a few months back that clearly spelled out the reasons behind this event.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
miles_mechanic
Posts: 132
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2001 4:30 pm

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:38 pm

JetChaser

Thanks for the info, I will have to look and see if I can see any photos of it. I know that the Starship was a first attempt for Beech at using the composites, and canard shape, so that will explain its problems I guess, but love the look of it if only it did have those jets and be a bit bigger to give stand up head room.
thanks again
 
mopac
Posts: 196
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:05 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:14 pm

Setjet's link says that Raytheon *is* going to donate several airframes to museums and technical schools. One has already been donated to the Kansas Aviation Museum according to the link.

In any case...

It's sad to see the Starship come to this end. I vividly remember buying a Popular Mechanics magazine at HOU (while flying WN) back when the Starship made its debut in the late 80s... they had a great pic of a Starship inflight on the cover... I was amazed... "Starship" sounded & looked like the future.
 
canoecarrier
Posts: 2569
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:20 pm

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:37 pm

Didn't they run a PT-6 engine in these? The whole thing has to be on the airframe right? I'm a little removed out of the GA world but used to deal with one of these everyday, and the owner seemed pretty happy with his plane. I'll have to find out what he's flying now.
The beatings will continue until morale improves
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Scrapping Starships?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:51 pm

Yup, can't remember the dash number but it was a PT-6

Which is one of the few installations of the PT-6 where they air wasn't flowing through the engine backwards!






[Edited 2004-02-14 07:51:53]
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.