Capital146
Topic Author
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Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 1:58 am

There have been a number of posts in the past couple of days suggesting that (N)EMA will lose out if Finningley opens commercially.

Well, by all accounts, Finningley is set build a commercial terminal and be ready for commercial ops in spring 2005 and that the airport will have an emphasis on charter traffic but surely the LCC's will take note too. What does everyone think the impact will be in the UK?

Some have said easyJet are poised to move there and dump (N)EMA. Can anyone add any more to this? Maybe FR might consider setting up a north of England base here?

My personal view is that LBA will be largely uneffected as it has a huge catchment area, has a good full-fare scheduled service footing, Jet2 will not move and is massively underserved by charter traffic so can withstand whatever Finningley offers.

I think that HUY could potentially suffer in terms of the hard-earned charter traffic it has built up over recent years and that (N)EMA could lose scheduled traffic in the form of U2. WW will always stay faithful to its (N)EMA roots but maybe bmi regional may take back AMS/CDG/EDI/GLA/BFS and offer higher frequencies to cater more for the business travellers.

What do you think?
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
diesel1
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:14 am

The owners of Finningley will be desperate to get airlines to operate from there - which will no doubt be very tempting to some LCC and charter opreators.

However, you can't just open an airport to civil flights and overnight expect a huge success - you have to build your market.

The best clues to how Finningley will develop can be seen in the ex military airbases being turned over to civil operations in Europe.

Hahn..a success (thanks to Ryanair).
Niederhein and Baden Baden are developing albeit at a slower rate.
Vatry in France is very much a freight centre.

What of the above will Finningley mirror?

Finally, does Finningley have a name yet ?
Finningley means nothing to me and will mean even less to many who are in Europe - anyone have any suggestions as to what a meaningful relevant name could be
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EGNM-LBA
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:20 am

I recall a posting elsewhere that suggested two-thrids of passengers from Finningley's natural S.Yorks catchment area used MAN, with another 10-15% using EMA. No suprise then that MAPLC we're one of the principle objectors.

What must be avoided at all costs is LBA and Finningley battling it out with each other. Both have got easy pickings from MAN if they get their strategies right.

Egnm
 
Capital146
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:25 am

I agree, Finningley means nothing to most overseas travellors (or UK ones for that matter!) We need to come up with a name which suggests it is "near the beginning of that slit half-way down the eastern side of the British mainland". So how do you reckon we name that?!!!  Smile

Maybe North-East Midlands England????  Smile/happy/getting dizzy Tough one to call.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:35 am

Is that area not already quite overpopulated with airports already ? EMA, LBA and HUY are all pretty close.
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Capital146
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 2:36 am

EGNM-LBA,

I doubt whether LBA will suffer as much as EMA and HUY when Finningley becomes operational. As I mentioned before, LBA has a huge catchment area and I'm sure you will agree it is still vastly under utilised. It has a very good mix of full fare/low fare/charter traffic so if one goes or decreases it will still be on good grounds. However, as LBA is still underserved I still think it will lose little, but may suffer future growth, from Finningley.

If Finningley attracts some long-haul charters then these will be at MAN's expense due to LBA/HUY/EMA not offering long haul charters (with the exception of EMA's India services). Short/medium haul will stay at LBA for sure but Finningley could affect the potential of future growth at LBA, though I think EMA and HUY have more cause for concern.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
ACEregular
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:32 am

South Yorkshire airport would be the name I would suggest or maybe Doncaster international.
 
Ant72LBA
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:11 am

The Doncaster Finningley home page does make mention of freight quite prominently, e.g. in 1999 the Scilly Isles shipped more freight by air than the whole of the Yorkshire region. Finningley is excellently postioned so far as tranport links are concerned and doesn't suffer from the climatic problems that LBA does. Warehousing and distribution are massively important to the economy in that area (knock a coal mine down, flatten the site and build a vast warehouse on it seems to have been the idea for re-generating the coalfields), could Finningley tap into this? Just out of interest does anyone know how long the runway is at Finningley, I have walked through a C-5 there at an airshow in the distant past so assume it is capable of handling pretty large aircraft.
 
Capital146
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:25 am

Ant72LBA, I don't have the precise runway length at Finningley but it is around 9500ft so well capable of handling any type of aircraft.
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
Guest

RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:34 am

Airport Name:

SYDI - SY Doncaster International (SY pronounced as it is)
 
KA501
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:21 pm

If Sheffield was anything to go by Finningley will be a disaster. As I remember its in the middle of nowhere with a poor road network(mind you I am going back 15 years and the wife was navigating!)
DHL and UPS have spent millions on EMA developing freight hubs and a personal view is that the low cost market in the UK is saturated.
 
JasperEMA
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:34 pm

I don't know whether there is enough traffic to make SY viable given the distances to the other airports in the area-

LBA-SY 55MLS
EMA-SY 63MLS
MAN-SY 96MLS
HUY-SY 37MLS

These are the fastest routes by Ms autoroute , so even with our excellent motorway system its not a lot of difference.
 
gkirk
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:45 pm

I could see LBA, HUY and EMA suffering from this. Perhaps it would be better if it didnt open.
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FLYtoEGCC
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:47 pm

If Finningley opened, would many operators move traffic from MAN, EMA, LBA etc. to Finningley? Sure, the people of South Yorkshire and the surrounding areas would love to have an international airport ten minutes up the road, but for them to fly anywhere, airlines would have to move the traffic. Particularly in the case of the long-haul charters, would the likes of BY, AMM, TCX, MON move their long hauls from MAN? Surely this has an even bigger catchment area, with Manchester, Lancashire, most of Cheshire and the whole of North Wales.

I think the most Finningley would see, would be domestic/short haul European flights like LHR, possibly KLM to AMS (as KLMuk seems to fly from every other airport in the UK!), maybe AF to CDG... and then short haul charters to popular places like TFS, CFU, PMI, etc. My opinion is that Finningley's owners are being a little too ambitious.
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oerk
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:11 pm

It would easily work...

especially if they built the new road to the M18, which connects with the A1, M1, and M62 within 20 miles.

Theres over 2 million people living within 20 minutes of the airport, and a railway line running right past the site capable of connecting with Doncaster's main station, which has direct trains from London to Edinburgh, Sheffield, Hull, York, Leeds, you name it.

The transport links to this airport, if developed would be superb.

Now lets consider the fact that the runway is long enough to take any aircraft, and the fact that there is a massive estate and tons of spare land around for expansion, it seems to make sense.

Humberside and Leeds Bradford suffer from poor locations and lack of transport, whereas Doncaster sits right in the middle of the action.

In time, there is no doubt in my mind that Finningley would thrive and take the market away from other local airports, such as LBA and humberside, but so be it, Finningley is much easier for the majority of people in the region to get to, simple.
 
rutankrd
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:27 pm

I think other posters are making to much emphasis on traffic transfer !
More rather the likes of My Travel are looking for new travel streams and being one of the sponsors.
Possibly the only airline committed publicly to The Finningley Project !
Although they are currently reconsidering My Travel Lite operations at BHX/MAN Finningley could be just right place.
I don't expect the airport to go from ZERO- HUNDREDS let alone dozens of movements overnight !
Take a look around the UK we have Bournemouth/Tees Side/Blackpool/Exeter none of which really meet their local expectations.
I do agree that Humberside may be the big looser since its own runway and facilities just aren't good enough through.
An LCC may very well take up residence with a selection of the usual routes Dublin/Prague/Murcia/Barcelona/Faro you know the ones !
And a few freight routes might open up but its real hard work to win these on a regular basis.
Add-hoc services probably more likely and they will certainly get some GA/BIZ-JET traffic.
Given the prevalence of local Racing (Horse) tracks some traffic MAY be generated as a result.
Don't expect a London service for a long time.
Think about it Doncaster-Kings X in few hours with GNER and at reasonable prices and modern trains is a real option compared to similar Piccadilly-Euston With Virgin now around three hours extortionate prices seventies train sets or Shuttle/BMI/VLM to Manchester I know which i use when going north.Train on East Coast and Plane to Manchester.
 
Ant72LBA
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:08 am

Finningley is virtually astride the East Coast main line which is just about the only high speed rail link in the country...............possible links to large parts of the eastern side of England...............CO to EWR? (see previous posts ad nauseum on this topic!)
 
FLYtoEGCC
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:16 am

I'd love to see Ryanair open a second base at Finningley! Whenever I've looked on the web for a fare, theirs are consistently lower than the likes of Easyjet and bmibaby. The problem is, though, that us northerners have to make the 3-hour plus trip to STN to get on an FR flight. If Finningley offered charges that were low enough for Ryanair, they would reach out to a lot more people in the north of England who would otherwise not bother making the trip all the way to Stansted (some people have to go a lot further than me to get to STN, and my journey's long enough!) People in FR's increased catchment area would benefit from lower fares and reduced journey times.

Also, it has been reported in the financial media recently that FR is having to put some of its new 738s on unproven routes from STN-Europe, because they are expanding too fast and are not filling them as they'd like to... why not move some of these to Finningley? They may stand a better chance of filling them from there.

Just my 2p-worth.
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BDRules
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RE: Finningley:- Who Will Win And Lose?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:42 pm

Theres over 2 million people living within 20 minutes of the airport, and a railway line running right past the site capable of connecting with Doncaster's main station, which has direct trains from London to Edinburgh, Sheffield, Hull, York, Leeds, you name it.
So does EMA if not more and also there have been proposed plans for the Parkway station on the main midland mainline route between the north and London nearby. Why should EMA lose out. the catchment area for (N)EMA is bigger than that of Finningley. Easy will run from EMA because they think it hasnt got the potential of other UK aiports such as BRS and NCL. IMO Finningley will struggle at the start but they definatly wont attract long haul traffic from MAN or the India flight from EMA. All fights apparently for the rest of the season on the Amritsar flights from EMA are Full and are considering making it a year round service