MEA321
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What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:40 am

In the past Iraqi Airways was operating old 727s, 737s, 747s, and some Russian aircraft.


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Does anyone think that the New Iraqi Airways will be made up of new 777s, 747s, and 737s? Or maybe A320s, A330s, and A340s?

Please everyone lets try to keep politics out of this one. Im sure that most people might THINK that America might try to pursue its own interests and forge a fleet of Boeing aircraft in Iraq, similar to Saudia and EL AL. However, I think that Iraqi Airways will follow the schema set out by other Middle East carriers such as Royal Jordanian, Middle East (MEA), Qatar Airways, and Emirates and operate a fleet of Airbus aircraft.
MEA321
 
mt99
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:41 am

Launch costumer of the 7E7?

Perfectly suited for them.. long routes.. not to big.. not to small
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airbusfanyyz
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:49 am

Unless someone donated some planes to them like IC did to Ariana Afghan I don't think they'll be flying anything...
If they did have some money it would make more sense to buy some ex-AA 727s or early production 320s.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
B747-437B
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:52 am

Unless someone donated some planes to them like IC did to Ariana Afghan

IC gave Ariana Afghan nothing.

The 3 A300-B4s were all Air India airframes. AI also provided crew, spares and training support for 18 months.

"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
MaverickM11
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:02 am

The future Iraqi Airways will look alot like Ariana Afghan...at least in the near future.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
DeltaMD11
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:03 am

Well there is a dearth of 737's and 727's sitting out in the desert right now that should be up there and not down here. Instead of meeting the cutters torch, they could be given a new lease on life relatively cheaply.
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
EZYAirbus
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:05 am

they will receive 10 747-400ER with wing mounted missiles and riot shields over windscreens, also will be able to deploy heat seeking missile destractors!  Smile

Glenn
http://www.glenneldridgeaviation.com
 
bobrayner
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:54 am

Launch costumer of the 7E7?

Perfectly suited for them.. long routes.. not to big.. not to small


...and expensive.
Cunning linguist
 
Danny
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 5:57 am

"Launch costumer of the 7E7?

Perfectly suited for them.. long routes.. not to big.. not to small

...and expensive."


Doesn't matter - American taxpayers will fund that.
 
MD11Lover
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:04 am



EZYAirbus....LOL

...........Md11lover
 
airbusfanyyz
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:08 am

My mistake, you are right Sean it was AI and not IC.

Cheers,
Kaz
 
JGPH1A
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:08 am

I hope they keep the old c/s at least - it would look great on an A320. Possibly Spain will donate some of IB's old clapped out 320's.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
bobrayner
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:18 am

Possibly Spain will donate some of IB's old clapped out 320's.

1. Donating airliners is hardly an effective form of foreign aid, unless your main intention is to support the aircraft manufacturer. It would be better for Iraq - and the donor - to sell any putative aircraft on the open market, and use the proceeds to buy things that Iraqis actually need.

2. IB's aircraft belong to IB, not to Spain. IB is not a major foreign aid donor.
Cunning linguist
 
JGPH1A
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:35 am

The theory being that IB will want to replace said clapped out 320's with new shiny ones, and will sell them to the Spanish goverment (that well know philanthropic enterprise) for threepence ha'penny worth of euros, being as they are clapped out and have no monetary value. Spain will donate them to Iraq.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
MEA321
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:26 am

Does anyone have information on the status of the Iraqi Airways aircraft's whereabouts? Are they still in Baghdad, or dispersed around countries?

There are definitely a few in Amman and Damascus...Anywhere else?

MEA321
 
united
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:41 am

aren't we forgetting a possibility???


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Chris
The opinions expressed here are mine and not necessarily those of Delta Air Lines.
 
yegbey01
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 10:56 am

Currently, there are some disputes between Iraq and Syria and Jordan regarding the planes. Iraqis are accusing them for using them.

Syria and Jordan want to get paid for parking fees. right now it looks like all aircraft will be sent to the scrapyard as t costs so much to restore them.

 
graham697
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:02 am

Well, since our dumb President is making us tax payers in the US pay for it. It will be an all Boeing Fleet, at least it will give Boeing a few orders. Hopefully, 717!



graham at TPA
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yanksn4
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:06 am

Don't turn this into something political, Graham697! If you had read the opening post you probably would have known this.
2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
 
yegbey01
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:44 am

I agree this should not be turned into a political thread, but what will the Iraqi Airways look like if wwe don;t talk about the makeup of their fleet. And politics is always a big part of these decisions. Any remembers the recent Taiwan order... split between Boeing and Airbus even though the management wanted to go with an all Airbus fleet

My take is this, in spite of all the money that the US governemnt is poring into Iraq, the Iraqis (if they had the ultimate choice) will go with Airbus.

It's true that the French are our right now, but deep down inside, most Iraqis would prefer to work with the French and the Germans.

The French and th egermans are "PERCEIVED" to be pro-Arabs. And anyone who works in the marketing business knows that perception is everything.

Just my two canadian cents!

jay
 
CPH-R
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:58 am

Don't forget that Airbus have an order from them in the order books, who they want Iraqi Airways to accept (some A310's I think it was).

I think that it's going to take quite a while before they can take to the skies, as the situation needs to quiet down. Would be quite a PR disaster if the first flight was shot down by x number of SAM missiles, eh?
 
Flying-Tiger
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 3:25 pm

Well - I suppose a small number of say 180-seaters is absolutely sufficient for the beginning. Remember, many people simply don´t have the money to afford a flight. Thus the number of passengers will be quite low, and foreign routes will be mostly served by foreign carriers, for sure not Iraqi Airways.

Domestic services will be the domain of Iraqi Airways, and here I think B737-200 sized planes for the trunk routes are sufficient, for the others turboprops are a decent fit, both a combination of Dash 8-Q300/400 or ATR42/72 would work - but all depending on who is financing the fleet.

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Flying-Tiger
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aviationfreak
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 7:42 pm

Like this?

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:D
I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
 
kalakaua
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:07 pm

I think it's impossible to avoid politics when discussing this subject... Stop this pretty airline crap, and put some common sense into it... Politics will decide Iraqi Airways's fate. And Aviationfreak, you're not funny at all.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
advancedkid
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:29 pm

I could imagine Iraqi Airways
flying a fleet of B737NG's
and B777's and new destinations
such as Washington, London,
Tel-Aviv. Of course there wil be
flights to neighboring Gulf States
and Saudi as well as Cairo, Istanbul,
etc.

regards,

Adv.
 
codeshare
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:36 pm

As somebody mentioned: perhas the 7E7 for them?

It'll probably look like an order similar to that of PIA: a few 777s and probably 737 NG for the shorter routes.
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
Phaeton
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:40 pm

That picture up there showed a Boeing 727. This means that the Americans destroyed one of their own planes.
"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill
 
AirGAbon
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:41 pm

"...and new destinations such as Washington, London, Tel-Aviv."

HaHa !!
Why not a direct flight Baghdad-Tehran-Damascus-Tel Aviv with a B773ER ???
 
Motorhussy
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:48 pm

Mahalo Kalakaua

I agree, politics will play its part. There will be a Boeing fleet. There will be favorable but binding American finance agreements. There will be U.S. backed "democracy". There will be increasing civil unrest. There will be increased tension. There will be increased anti U.S. sentiment. There will be shock within the U.S. at Iraqi ingratitude...

But I hope not.
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
rob2507
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:29 pm

US developing plan for Iraqi airline
Restoring service under new carrier focus of proposal
By Stephen J. Glain and Ross Kerber, Globe Staff, 2/14/2004

WASHINGTON -- US officials in Iraq are developing a plan to restart Iraq's aviation sector that calls for a new national airline to replace the existing carrier, restore US-Iraq passenger service by April, and put together an international funding package led in part by Washington.

http://www.boston.com/business/technology/articles/2004/02/14/us_developing_plan_for_iraqi_airline/

 
ushermittwoch
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 9:35 pm

With all that oil they have they could just pay Boeing with a few barrels.
Oh wait, that oil is being used "for the good of the Iraqi people"...
And since we all know a US-Iraq non-stop flight is the first thing they need that is great...
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
rutankrd
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:10 pm

Reasonable post Iraq Airlines most likely back in the skys' circa 2005.
Aircraft types almost certainly US or how about even a few BAe146/RJ me thinks to start local and key domestic routes!
Initial routes likely Baghdad-Basra, Baghdad to a Northern Iraq town TBA on security grounds Baghdad-Qatar, Baghdad-Ankara and or Diyarbakir (Turkey), Baghdad/Barsa-Larnaca. Baghdad/Basra-Amman
With Istanbul/Athens/London/Frankfurt/Moscow to follow with a B767/B757 !

Destinations I DON'T consider politically good to start initially would be to Saudi or Kuwait direct even with the US protection.Israel for obvious reasons and Syria and Libya coz the US still don't trust them !


Why do I conjecture on the 146/RJ well BAE systems are going to get quite a number back from various sources soon notably LH/LX and Royal Bhutan and may also get some from BAcx as all they replace them with EMBs and will want to place them out again soon.
The RJ models are relatively new and the hot-high and short runway performance may be ideal for the new Iraq situation.
They could even have some defensive chaff/electric countermeasures fitted since they have been used on the RAF 32 squad 146 aircraft for a number of years so could be simply retro-fitted specifically for the area quite quickly and I suspect relatively cheaply.
 
A340600
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:33 pm

When was Iraqi Airways last flight











Cheers


Sam Smile
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
Jaspike
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:02 am

Hopefully they'd get a new livery - maybe something like this...

http://www.cardatabase.net/modifiedairlinerphotos/search/photo_search.php?id=00000235

 Big thumbs up
 
TwinPioneer
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:35 am

I am not trying to be contentious but, if Iraq should get their fleet up and running again, I think it will go to Boeing, unfortunately. When I say unfortunately it's not because I'm pro Airbus. It'll be down to politics (whether we want to admit it or not) Politics will decree who the contract goes to IMHO. Just like the contracts that are being 'put out to tender?' to rebuild Iraq. If I'm not mistaken they are mainly going to US companies! Why? Hmmm! Shouldn't companies like Tupolev, De Havilland and Embraer have a fair chance with their aircraft? As for using A/C that have been sat in storage for 'a while', doesn't anybody think that they (the Iraqis) have had enough cr*p flown in their direction? I will now sit back and wait for the sh*t to hit the fan
 
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STT757
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:06 am

US developing plan for Iraqi airline
Restoring service under new carrier focus of proposal
By Stephen J. Glain and Ross Kerber, Globe Staff, 2/14/2004

WASHINGTON -- US officials in Iraq are developing a plan to restart Iraq's aviation sector that calls for a new national airline to replace the existing carrier, restore US-Iraq passenger service by April, and put together an international funding package led in part by Washington.

The US plan was developed by New York-based SH&E International Air Transport Consultancy and unveiled in a presentation at a meeting of investors in December. It recommends Iraq's new airline be part of a regional group of carriers that could include Royal Jordanian, Lebanon's Middle East Airlines, and Syrian Air, and identifies Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines Inc. as a possible international partner. "The future is bright, and you're all invited to participate," Graham Henderson, director of SH&E's Washington office, told investors and aviation specialists at the Middle East Aviation Finance Conference in Dubai, according to a PowerPoint copy of the slide show.

Privatization has been a sensitive issue in postwar Iraq, which under former dictator Saddam Hussein was a command economy bloated with inefficient and overemployed state-owned enterprises. Initial attempts by coalition officials to aggressively sell public companies was resisted by some Iraqi ministries fearful that such a plan would worsen the country's debilitating jobless rate.

Henderson spoke alongside Frank Willis, who at the time was advising Iraq's transportation ministry as an official with the Coalition Provisional Authority, or CPA, the US-led administration in postwar Iraq. Willis said he anticipated the liquidation of Iraqi Airways, the nation's air carrier, in favor of a new airline. Iraqi Airways has been effectively grounded since Hussein's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 and the United Nations embargo that followed. The airline has been saddled with lawsuits filed by Kuwait in the value of some $1.5 billion, Willis said, which all but precludes the possibility of jump-starting the airline.

The SH&E study suggested any new Iraqi Airline should procure its fleet from a single manufacturer. Iraqi Airways' fleet was either scattered to neighboring countries on the eve of the 1991 Gulf War or destroyed during Operation Iraqi Freedom. Its last order for new aircraft, logged prior to the invasion of Kuwait, was for five Airbus jets. Airbus kept the order -- its first from Iraq's flag carrier -- on its books, presumably as leverage against the day the airline was able to shop for new aircraft. Airbus is owned by EADS, a European consortium controlled by aerospace giants from Germany and France, which opposed the US war on Iraq and have been blocked from participating in major reconstruction deals. David Venz, a spokesman for Airbus Industrie of North America Inc., in Virginia, said the company hasn't been told of any plans for a new airline.

Mark Baughman, a Boeing spokesman, said he was aware the company has had preliminary negotiations for sales to Iraq's postwar aviation sector, but he did not know at what level the discussions were being held. Most aviation analysts say the new Iraqi carrier would probably lease, rather than buy, its fleet given the industry's slowdown and the large supply of used aircraft on the market. Richard L. Aboulafia, an aviation industry consultant at Teal Group Corp. in Virginia, estimated it would cost several hundred million dollars for a new airline to get started with used planes and up to $6 billion to match Iraqi Airways' pre-1990 peak.

Willis, who has since left the CPA and could not be reached for comment, said the outlook for Iraq's air industry was bright, despite the country's precarious security situation. He said Iraq's transport ministry and Interim Governing Council had already authorized a code-share deal between Delta and Royal Jordanian to provide air-mail service to Iraq and is targeting April 1 for direct flights from Baghdad to Detroit.

Donor agencies, such as the United States Agency for International Development and the World Bank, will help finance Iraq's new aviation sector, according to the presentation. A World Bank official said yesterday the bank has not been asked, officially or otherwise, by US or Iraqi authorities for help, "but if we're asked specifically to work on something like this, we'd be happy to get involved." The presentation also cited "excellent investment opportunities in the noncore airline-related activities" in Iraq's aviation industry. Bechtel Inc., which the US government hired to manage postwar Iraqi reconstruction, is already heavily involved in rebuilding Iraq's air-transport infrastructure.

It is unclear how much influence Iraq's transport officials have had on the coalition's plans for the country's aviation industry. Webster O'Brien, an SH&E spokesman, said Henderson's study was done largely in-house, using public data relating to Middle East air traffic. A press release issued by SH&E in December said the revival of Iraq's aviation sector was clouded by the "evolving" relationship between the CPA and Iraq's Civil Aviation Authority.
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STT757
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:12 am

Key points from the previous article:

"Iraqi Airways has been effectively grounded since Hussein's invasion of Kuwait in 1990 and the United Nations embargo that followed. The airline has been saddled with lawsuits filed by Kuwait in the value of some $1.5 billion, Willis said, which all but precludes the possibility of jump-starting the airline."

Which means a "new" airline, not bringing back Iraqi airways. A new airline would be free of debts owed and of any outstanding obligations (such as the Airbus order) of the previous airline, clean slate.

"The SH&E study suggested any new Iraqi Airline should procure its fleet from a single manufacturer"

"David Venz, a spokesman for Airbus Industrie of North America Inc., in Virginia, said the company hasn't been told of any plans for a new airline."

"Mark Baughman, a Boeing spokesman, said he was aware the company has had preliminary negotiations for sales to Iraq's postwar aviation sector"





Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
yegbey01
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:23 am

Rutankrd .

The US can't tell people where they shoudl fly. Right now, there's so much business between Lebanese companies and Iraqis. it's not what the US wants. Keep mind that there are links that exist among arabs that the US can not overlook.

There's a huge Iraqi populous in places like Danmascus. If there's a need to operate flights, they will operate these flights.


Also, ther are have been regular service to baghdad fom Beirut serving businessmen recently. Not sure whether this has stopped or not. But it's the market (demand) that determines the feasibility of the flights.
 
MEA321
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:22 am

The US can't tell people where they should fly...

I wish this was as easy as said, but the cold hard fact is that the U.S. is telling people where to fly. Basically every country looks out for its own interests, and the U.S. has a lot of diplomatic influence. Remember Air Canada and Beirut.....
MEA321
 
rutankrd
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:51 am

Yegbey absolutely the US WILL determine where the new Iraq Airlines can fly to .
The WILL effectively own it after all!
The US WILL also determine who is ALLOWED to leave in the short term.
After all they ARE already trying to VET Every name of passengers booked to enter the US on scheduled services re BA223 being CANX recently based on name similarlities.
With the military governor and occupying force controls on travel for the Iraqis ARE inevitabe in the short term !
Beirut may be possible and Damascus is open to some negotiation but not among the first routes which WILL be decided on political basis ie NO PARIS in Europe !
The occupying forces will also determine and I understand already has a list of preferred non Iraqi Airlines that will be allowed to fly to Baghdad and/or Basra soon as security situation permits !
Obviously as things are gradually returned to a proper Iraq administration over time these thing will change hopefully for the better.
I am NOT a BAATH party supporter or an applogist for the recent military campagne.
Neither can take the moral high ground with hindsight on current evidence!
Obviously the very close business ties with Lebanon/Jordan/Syria and Baghdad CAN NOT be under estimated!
 
YYZUla
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RE: What Will The New Iraqi Airways Look Like?

Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:29 am

The US has too much influence on other airliners. I think that the new government when it comes into power should decide these kind of things or someone who is impartial.

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