SInGAPORE_AIR
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Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:54 pm

Ryanair 'to cut frills further'

Ryanair is taking the "no-frills" concept a stage further - by ordering a fleet of planes without reclining seats or window blinds, it is reported.
The Sunday Times says the budget airline hopes to make savings of more than £1.3m a year by removing all remaining "non-essential" items.

In the long-term, says the paper, the firm hopes to go further by making all passengers carry on their luggage.

This could save the firm 20% of costs, said chief executive Michael O'Leary.

"Think about it. People are happy to carry a bag onto buses so why not onto airlines? It could be revolutionary," the paper quoted him as saying.

"Most of the space in airports is devoted to baggage handling. It's not just a question of staff. It would mean smaller airports, simpler facilities and lower charges."

The Sunday Times has calculated the money Ryanair could save with the stripped-down fleet:

By using non-adjustable seats, it would save about £1.3m a year in repair bills to the reclining type

Removing window blinds would save about £130,000

Removing Velcro headrests and replacing them with ones paid for by advertisers could save £100,000 - and earn the same

Ditching seat pockets would reduce cleaning costs, and shorten the plane's turnaround times.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3489761.stm
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
pilottim747
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:58 pm

Oh my. I can't say I'd like to be on those flights. I'd rather pay the little bit extra and get at least the basics. Beverage service I could do without, but seat pockets and window shades? All carry-on luggage? This sounds like a nightmare.

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
jobalas
Posts: 136
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:01 pm

later it will be an aircraft without cockpit!!!! I don't believe it, I think it 's a shame but it's my opinion. I prefer to pay a little bit more but with a little comfort. What do you think about that?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la Terre...
 
Ndebele
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.

Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:13 pm

I don't care too much about reclining seats on a flight less than two hours, and I have never lowered the window shades. If it really saves them so much money - why not?

But taking everything as a carry-on? Have you ever been on a full Ryanair flight? Already now, the large 738 overhead bins are not enough to take all the carry-ons, cabin space is limited - especially when you have a Ryanair Y189 configuration. This would never work, and you can say that Ryanair is ignorant and unfriendly, but they are not stupid, they will (hopefully) realize that this carry-on thing won't work.
 
flyinghighboy
Posts: 721
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.

Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:17 pm

i've always wondered why they don't put more ads on the planes. It may annoy people but with cheap airfares they'll still keep coming back. However carrying the luggage onboard, forget about that one.
 
johnnybgoode
Posts: 2144
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:28 pm

as much as i have enjoyed their "value for money" so far, i always thought FR could just get better. but obviously, they still can get worse.

lots of people that haven't flown before won´t notice and might not care, but i´m sure lots of travelers that used other airlines before won´t come back as easily in the future if there are much better alternatives such as germanwings, easyjet, HLX and others...

the thing is, no-frills or not, FR does really not to seem to care about their customers.

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Pettersa
Posts: 7
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RE: Rainier To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:04 pm

Removal of the reclining seats is quite good in my opinion - there is not a lot of things that are more irritating when sitting in a crowded plane with not too much space between the seats, and then in addition the person in front of you insists on placing his seat in your lap for the entire flight.
And in addition, the RYR flights normally don't last more than a couple of hours, so then you don't really have to be bugging the person in the seatrow behind you, do you?
 
dc-10 levo
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:11 pm

Well I never use the reclining seat anyway. I just leave it in the position it is in when I get onboard so I wouldn't be affected by that. It's really annoying when someone in front reclines their seat on a crowded flight. I don't really touch the window blinds either.

Carrying on luggage onboard just seems silly.

DC-10
 
Ndebele
Posts: 2847
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2001 3:16 am

RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.

Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:18 pm

One thing I forgot:

Ditching seat pockets would reduce cleaning costs, and shorten the plane's turnaround times.
Oh come on, don't tell me that they spend much time in cleaning the aircraft, leave alone the seat pockets. Cleaning seems to be done only during night-stop of the aircraft, the cabins on evening flights are quite dirty, if they ditch the seat pockets, people will throw their waste on the floor, so it doesn't make much of a difference.
But it's not only Ryanair, I had to laugh when I was on a bmiBaby flight, the cabin was quite dirty, I didn't care too much but I had to laugh when the f/a proudly told everybody that she did the cleaning of the cabin on her own.
 
Udo
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:29 pm

If Ryanair wants to shoot itself, well I don't care. I would never ever book an airline which forces me to carry my suitcase personally to the aircraft.

It's nice we have so many LCCs out there which offer better service than Ryanair...and it's still possible to offer low fares and good products, just look at jetBlue, Soutwest, germanwings or HLX. I have tried out all of them and all of them were better than Ryanair.

What's next? Removing all seats like in city busses? Maybe O'Leary needs to see a doctor immediately...


Regards
Udo
Me & You & a Plane Named Blue...
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16001
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:41 pm

Well done MOL! You're a superb businessman, and can reduce your costs considerably. You're an extremely clever man and one with steel balls.

PEOPLExpress used to make all passengers with check-in luggage pay $7 per bag. The airline provided larger overhead bins onboard the aircraft to store more luggage in. If you did away with the larger bins and made people pay (£5 per hold bag?), it'd be a nice little earner.

Again, congrats to MOL for further increasing his airline's efficiency.

If people here and the general public don't like the changes - they have a choice and can fly a different airline. That's the joy about it.  Smile
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
trent900
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:45 pm

How can FR get passengers to carry on their own luggage? Once its checked in it would be impossible for the passengers to retreave their case and then carry it to the aircraft. This would be a serious security breach.

And getting rid of the seat pockets? Not sure about that. Where would the safty cards and sick bags be kept? Unless they're removing the carpets as well so its just a wash down floor.  Nuts

Trent.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:49 pm

"Where would the safty cards and sick bags be kept?"

On the seat back, I should think.

"How can FR get passengers to carry on their own luggage? Once its checked in it would be impossible for the passengers to retreave their case and then carry it to the aircraft."

I suspect it wouldn't be checked-in in the first place; I reckon it'd be checked by security (scanned or whatever) and you then it in onboard. But there isn't room for large suitcases aboard the beasts, so I wonder whether FR will charge passengers for putting them in the hold - just like PEOPLExpress did.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
trent900
Posts: 496
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:53 pm

Sounds like a way of getting more money out of people. I suppose you'll have to pay for sick bags as well then? LOL

Why dont they just put the prices up a bit? I'd rather pay a bit extra for the services.

Trent.
 
thaigold
Posts: 305
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:58 pm

G'day

I agree with Pe@rson - great ideas from an absolute LCC genius..... I don't think most people flying Ryanair would mind carrying their own bags onboard on put them near the cargo hold them selves..... I know I wouldn't mind..... As for seats not reclining, no barfbags, window shutters etc. - I couldn't really give a ....

Great thinking and good for us flying even cheaper.
Dunbar Rovers forever
 
Sonic
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:04 pm

I believe with all-carry-on luggage they means just that luggage would need to be transported to the plane by each person as carry-on (not checked-in). However, near plane some of luggage would be loaded into baggage compartment of the plane. The same is done currently with some regional props, e.g. ATR-42 where many people carries oversized luggage (for plane's overhead compartments) and there are people who checks the size and, if it's too big, puts under the plane.
I believe, same would be for Ryanair (after all, it was this comparing to bus - exacly the same it works for tourist buses). Not sure just werether they would still run the luggage to baggage claim, or give it away near airplane just after all people disembarqued (assuming it was not done through jetway).

I think this could really revolutionize the system, as it is not that hard for a person to move his/her luggage up to the plane instead of just to the airport. Unless you have really much luggage, of course...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:05 pm

"Sounds like a way of getting more money out of people."

Not really - IF FR implements a pay-to-check-luggage-in policy, it would act as an incentive for passengers not not take large or much luggage. Accordingly, FR's fuel bill would be lower - surely a lot lower per day - and it could either pass this cost saving - together with the other cost savings - onto the consumer in the form of lower prices or onto shareholders in the form of higher dividends. If it offered lower prices, more people would travel, because airfares are elastic: if you reduce your prices by 10%, more than 10% more people will travel. If you gave your shareholders a higher return on their investment (i.e. higher dividends), you'd ensure they don't sell-up and go elsewhere. For those passengers who must take a lot of luggage, like families, they'd be penalised for doing so. In reality, it'd save the firm money by not paying out as much in fuel, while bringing in a bit more income - but I really doubt that FR would do it merely to gain more revenue.

"Why dont they just put the prices up a bit?"

They use yield management, so fares are higher at particular times, like weekends, during holidays, on morning and late-afternoon/early evening flights during the week, at the last minute, etc. Its fares can be quite to very high during these periods. For example, I would have had to have paid £149.99 each way if I booked a flight between LPL and DUB the day before travelling. FR generally offers these unbelievably cheap fares to those with complete flexibility, like leisure passengers, the eldery and those unemployed, by offering them on 'sub-otimally timed' flights, like late at night or early morning, or on mid-day flights. Indeed, it's normally always cheaper to fly on a Tuesday or Wednesday, except during those flights aboard which mainly business passengers fly (i.e. morning and late afternoon/evening).
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
trident2e
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:09 pm

I agree with Sonic - they are not saying all luggage would be carried as hand luggage, just that passengers would be expected to transport it to the aircraft themselves.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:11 pm

Yep, Sonic! That is a likely way of doing it, especially as he gave the example of a bus. Passengers simply cannot take suitcases onto planes, because of the lack of space. Accordingly, they'd almost certainly have to put them in the aircraft hold. And taking into consideration what happens when you board a bus, you might have to pull or carry it to the aircraft. This happens at bus stations and rail stations, so why not at airports? This form of flying should from the point-of-view of the consumer be made as much like travelling aboard a bus or train as possible - and this is another means of achieving this.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
clipperno1
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:18 pm

How much cost-reduction would it be, if FR, instead of removing the window shades, removes all windows from the Boeings?!

I hate O'leary's attidute, as if he's re-inventing the all airline biz. He's well over 30 years behind WN, for christ sake.
"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
 
Capital146
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:25 pm

I agree with most of the points made here.

Reclining seats can gladly go in my opinion. Nobody in front can sit on your lap anymore.

Window blinds can go as well. Have never used them and almost nobody else uses them either.

Seat pockets can go as long as there is somewhere handy for the sick bag to sit in! Also will require FR to check for litter more frequently or else the aircraft will look like a tip by the end of the day.

The only qualm I have is the idea of passengeres taking all their own luggage on board. This must surely mean cases/large bags, etc as passengers already take their own hand luggage onto an aircraft. I agree with Pe@rson that they could look into charging, say, £5 per person for luggage to be transferred to/from the aircraft for them, but would FR also expect all the elderly/infirm passengers to carry on their own cases as well, unless they pay a surcharge? Maybe Mr O'Leary is looking for someone else to take FR to court for discrimination to get some more free publicity?

Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
Ndebele
Posts: 2847
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:29 pm

Ah I see, so they're talking about something like a "delivery at aircraft" - this makes sense, I knew Ryanair wouldn't be so stupid to tell passengers to take everything into the cabin. However, one should keep in mind that you would not be able to take any knifes or scissors ... on your Ryanair trip, because you wouldn't be able to pass security.

...because airfares are elastic: if you reduce your prices by 10%, more than 10% more people will travel.
I doubt that. This may be true for a certain range of ticket fares, but Ryanair is already quite cheap, lowering these cheap fares by 10% would not create much additional demand.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:35 pm

"...because airfares are elastic: if you reduce your prices by 10%, more than 10% more people will travel."

You can doubt it all you like, but it's true.  Smile

"I hate O'leary's attidute, as if he's re-inventing the all airline biz. He's well over 30 years behind WN, for christ sake."

Then don't fly on FR. You have a choice, so you can take your business elsewhere. WN only went so far in creating low-fare travel. H. K. did not go to such extremes, and WN is arguably less efficient than FR, what with offering drinks (coffee or juice) and snacks (peanuts), a FF programme, allowing the families of staff to travel free, etc. It also operates into arguably extremely expensive airports, like LAX. Hardly conjucive to a low-cost, efficient operation.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
FLYtoEGCC
Posts: 929
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:37 pm

I also agree that removing reclining seats is a good idea. In fact, I think this should extend to all charter carriers and even major carriers who give you a miserable seat pitch in economy. It's no fun when you're over 6ft and someone decides to invade the minimal space you already have.

Carrying your own luggage to the aircraft... this sounds a bit silly. Unless the airports are willing to install a hell of a lot more X-ray scanners and security points, people could quite easily smuggle illegal stuff on board. Unless every single bag is scanned, what's to stop someone putting a gun in their hold luggage, then opening their case after passing through security and moving it to their hand luggage?

With regards the seat pockets, I didn't know they cleaned them anyway. I've always found evidence to the contrary  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:39 pm

Fly2EGCC - I, like Sonic, reckon that passengers might have to take their suitcases and bags to the aircraft (where it'll be loaded into the hold) and not actually take it on board.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
FLYtoEGCC
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:46 pm

Pe@rson
I understand that, I know what Sonic is saying. My point is if there aren't enough security points, if suitcases aren't thoroughly scanned in the same way that hold luggage is, what is to stop someone loading a weapon into their hold luggage, then once through security, still in possession of both their hold luggage and hand luggage, remove their item from their hold luggage and put it into their hand luggage, and carry that on board. Sorry if I was unclear before.
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly away...
 
Capital146
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:53 pm

If passengers did take their own bags to the aircraft, would this not cause more problems than it solves?

Many people would be unable to carry their bags any sort of distance without using a trolley, I can see the mayhem around the aircraft now, trolleys everywhere, being bashed against the side of the aircraft, getting in the way of airside operations. Surely it would take far longer to load/unload luggage in this way than having a dedicated team do this on the passengers behalf. The money FR would save on ground handling would surely be lost on increased turnaround times?

Would it also not be considered dangerous to have people milling around aircraft with their luggage rather than just getting straight onto the aircraft?
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:54 pm

>>>PEOPLExpress used to make all passengers with check-in luggage pay $7 per bag. The airline provided larger overhead bins onboard the aircraft to store more luggage in.

Now this is where cost cutting goes to far because it compromises safety: accidents happen because people stow heavy luggage in the overhead bins. The bag shifts, some other guy opens the bin and BANG the bag lands on his head, leaving him with serious head injuries.
And before you bash me for saying this is far-fetched, it happens 2-3 times annually on LH, I presume there are similar numbers for other airlines.
If you make people schlepp more bags on board by charging them for checked ones, these accidents will increase.


>>>However, one should keep in mind that you would not be able to take any knifes or scissors ... on your Ryanair trip, because you wouldn't be able to pass security.

Hats off to Ndebele - that´s a superb point you make.



Now, I guess the usual suspects will begin screaming I´m an FR hater (which I´m not), but I´ll tell you a little story:

I need to go from the FRA area to DUB. Friday afternoon to Sunday evening, on a fixed date, in about three months time.

For HHN-STN-DUB-STN-HHN, FR wanted all in all 220 EUR; the bus to HHN would cost me 32 EUR.

For FRA-DUB-FRA, LH wanted 220 EUR (had been 170 EUR the day before I booked, d´oh); the train to FRA will cost me 6.90 EUR.

No comment.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Daniel Smile
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:59 pm

Yes, the PEOPLExpress idea might not have been effective, hence the carrier ceasing to exist. Still, the basis is quite good.

No-one in their right mind will ever say that low-cost always means low-fares, because it doesn't. Indeed, the most effective way of securing cheap deals is to do A LOT of research well ahead of travelling, and be as flexible as possible. Look at both low-cost and with-frills carriers. Research is the key.

Obviously they'd be sufficient security measures in place so bags would indeed somehow be scanned.

We are not yet in possession of all the plans, so we cannot effectively argue the proposed idea.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:03 pm

>>>No-one in their right mind will ever say that low-cost always means low-fares, because it doesn't.

Yes, I recently noticed at STN that FR don´t call themselves "The Low Fares Airline" anymore, but rather "The On-Time Airline"...  Wink/being sarcastic

Daniel Smile
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:13 pm

 Wink/being sarcastic lol

People wrongly equate low-cost with low-fares, when the two do not necessarily always go together. Still, if one is willing and able to travel off-peak and on a Tuesday or Wednesday, and book 6 weeks or so in advance, one can normally secure pretty good deals.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Jkw777
Posts: 4427
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 11:15 pm

RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:21 pm

What is this a joke?!

Reclining seats and window blinds:

Ok I can live with out that, as some of you quite rightly said there is nothing worse than some as*hole who persists to recline their seat all the way back on a crowded flight. I enjoy looking out the window on the majority of my flights so that will not bother me one bit.

Passengers carrying on their own luggage:

You have to be kidding, how the hell is an elderly lady or a single mother with one small infant going to manage to carry on her suitcase to the aircraft. As some one else said above, the mayhem around the aircraft would be complete non-sense!

Removing Velcro headrests:

Another way to make money, ok fair enough. But don't they think they have taken enough away already? Also think of the hygiene side of things!? Wouldn't want some grease infested hair do all over my headrest!

Ditching seat pockets:

Where would the safety cards possibly be for the passengers to access when they are given the pre-departure safety briefing? Would this involve the FA's handing them out to each passenger as they board and then collecting them again? Surely not...

I am just glad that I will probably never have the need to fly FR (He says  Laugh out loud). This just goes to show you how tight one airline could possibly become. Didn't I read that FR made quite good profits anyway?

Just my thoughts on this matter.

Justin  Big thumbs up
jkw6210@btopenworld.com or +447751242989
 
Pe@rson
Posts: 16001
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:24 pm

"Where would the safety cards possibly be for the passengers to access when they are given the pre-departure safety briefing?

On the back of the seat, I should think. Or the cabin crew could hand one out to all passengers, but that might be a bit too inefficient.

"Didn't I read that FR made quite good profits anyway?

Over £100 million last year I think. But there's ALWAYS room for improvement; indeed, airlines, like all businesses, are in business for the money not for fun, so it's natural they'd do whatever they can do secure more profits. It's like someone saying 'I get all Bs for all my Maths A Level work' and not bothering to try a bit harder to get an A. In reality, of course they'd seek to get an A, just like a business will seek to earn as much as it can.

[Edited 2004-02-15 13:27:32]
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Delta777Jet
Posts: 1224
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.

Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:31 pm

I had flew with new FR B 737-800 three weeks ago and was on board of such 738 with no recline possibilities. The seats are colored blue and in the top a sunshine yellow, in fact there is also no seat pocket anymore and the safety instruction card sticker has been placed in the seat headrest in front of the next seat.

All in all a very interesting colour sheme what they used, its remembering me a little bit on any fast food restaurant with all plastic seats etc. a few years ago.

The aircrafts are now very un comfortable and from my last 30 trips with Ryanair I just can say, that, if there would be any other carrier flying the routes, I would suggest to go on them even if it is 15 EUR worse. Ryanair is demonstrating you, that you are nothing for them and they don`t care about passengers.

But anyway the Ryanair boom comes to an end fast and soon. May be the load factor is not decreasing, but their passenger yield is descending like hell and even on such routes like LBC-BGY (Hamburg-Milan), where I used to fly several times a month you can see that they are not able to get the aircraft full with fares like 2,99 or Free just Tax etc.

They started the low cost boom in europe and due to irish tax system and of course the strong management behind FR they gone to the Pole Position within short time. But now FR get really bored and other companies such Easyjet analizing what people wants. And if there is an alternate to Ryanair, they will loose the business no matter what.

So I estimate that Ryanair will loose over a longer period of time, I personally give them 1 to 2 years until they file for Chapter 11 and then we can also see how much the company Boeing will loose, because I`m sure that there is something not correct with the deal about the big order.

Something like we pay no maintenance reserve or we pay no lease rental in the first two years.

But anywhen they have to pay lease rentals, have to pay back the illegal subventions from the airports, maintenance reserve etc.

Wait and see...........


B-717/722/737-200/300/400/500/600/700/800/900/B-747-100/200/400/SP/8i/B-752/3/B-762/3/4/B-772/LR/300ER/B-788/DC-10-10/30/L-1011-1/500/MD-81/82/83/90/A-319/320/321/AB6/312/313/332/333/342/343/346/359/388/TU154/IL-18/ATR-42/72/DH4/DH3/E145/E170/190/CR2/7/9
 
greaser
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:43 pm

Guys, chill about the carry-on luggage thing. Its not for sure, if Ryanair conducts a poll and 60 or 70% say they would rather pay more, then they will!
O' Leary isn't THAT dumb and drive FR down the toilet, after all, All this skeptism just creates PUBLICITY (good or bad) for FR and him!
Get rid of those recliners!!!
Now you're really flying
 
airsicknessbag
Posts: 4626
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2000 2:45 am

RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 9:53 pm


>>>Ditching seat pockets: Where would the safety cards possibly be for the passengers to access when they are given the pre-departure safety briefing? Would this involve the FA's handing them out to each passenger as they board and then collecting them again? Surely not...

In a way yes: the "inflight magazine" (well...) includes safety instructions.


>>>Where would the safty cards and sick bags be kept?
>>>On the seat back, I should think.

Oh, I´d love to see that in the case of the sick bags  Laugh out loud


How come you´re all so intolerant towards people who recline their seats? Calling them assholes, inconsiderate and stuff. I pay for my seat, I use it fully within its intended function, and that includes recline, from twenty seconds after take-off until shortly before landing. (Not during meals of course.)
Has it ever occurred to you that, especially in cramped configurations, tall people will HAVE to do that to avoid a sore back for a week?

Daniel Smile

 
mikec
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:10 pm

Anyone who has had to join the large queue at STN to get through security at peak times, or the rugby scrums that ensue to get onboard an FR flight (not unique to FR I know) will be dumbfounded to think about every one of those FR pax still having their suitcases with them. It would beggar belief!!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

I personally think that FR is a successful company and my experiences with them have been ok. However I don't think they are particularly special. I've flown U2 4 times this year and have been just as happy - provided booked well in advance, the fares were every bit as cheap as FR and we flew into the main city airports.

Still nothing compares to jetBlue who I used 4 times during my trip to the US last year. I know a lot of people don't think they will last the course, but I was very impressed. Modern fleet of A320s, 34" seat pitch (more than VS gave on the transatlantic journey across to the US!), leather seats, PTV for every passenger showing DirecTV, free headphones, free drinks and snacks. Prices (when I booked) were a bit less than WN, and the service was great.

I'm all for cutting costs safely so that the passenger pays less, but I think some of the ideas are a little OTT! - would be nice to not have some idiot in front reclining their seat into your lap for the duration of a short haul flight though  Big grin
 
airblue
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:11 pm

they're talking about something like a "delivery at aircraft" - this makes sense

Delivery your luggage to the cargo hold of the aircraft will affect the turnaround time, cause they should wait the last passenger with the last bag to close the cargo door, when usually now when the last pax board the plane they are almost ready for the push back.



 
FoxBravo
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:24 pm

While I don't care that much about the reclining seats, which usually don't provide that much additional comfort anyway, I disagree strongly with those who say window shades don't matter. It's true that most of the time I can live without them, but have you ever been on a flight where the morning or late afternoon sun is shining right into your eyes? It's bad enough when this happens in a car, but when you're flying at 30,000 feet and there is (a) much less atmosphere in the way, and (b) no trees, buildings or anything else to block the glare, it can be quite unpleasant and even painful. It's like skiing on a sunny day with no sunglasses or goggles. Furthermore, while I have routinely seen broken seat recline mechanisms requiring maintenance, I have never seen a damaged window shade, nor have I ever heard of them as a frequent maintenance item. If they really need to take cost-cutting that far, I would start to wonder where else they might be cutting corners. Maintenance? Training? Where does it stop?
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
funflyer
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:26 pm

Well I have just 1 word, okay add them all together you would get more.




GOODBYE

Who cares about status?
 
codeshare
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:31 pm

How about reorganising the a/c interiors so they can look like a Tube car or a city bus? They'll be able to fly more passengers, or perhaps all seats can be removed and everybody will be standing up??

Ryanair can also introduce cattle transport - cows, sheep, geese, hens + humans, that could cut costs. Also passengers can have fun chasing the animals around the a/c.

And how about... forget it
How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
 
JAL777
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:35 pm

Why anyone would choose to fly Lyin'Air is beyond me.
 
patroni
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:36 pm

Well, I can only hope that this is empty publicity bla bla than the real strategy of Ryanair....

Reclining seats gone? Fine for flights of up to 90 minutes. Window blinds? Well, never use them myself.

But... seeing what there seems to be "on approach" for FR's customers makes me more and more avoiding them. Their new interior is simply tacky, I am pretty sure that there are other ways of saving cost without literally writing on everything "hey, I am cheap".

The delivery at aircraft is nonsense in my view, this works well with regional aircraft such as the ATR or a CRJ, but how long shall this take for a full 189 seater 737-800? Plus the long queues at security control. No thanks, I think that this measure will definitely shy away those few business pax that they have (and who so far were willing to pay 129EUR or more for a oneway HHN-STN if booked at short notice, which FR needs to get their average fare of 40EUR oneway). I maybe could take this treatment with an airfare of 2.99EUR, but definitly not for a cent more than that. In this case I rather pay 10, 20 or even 50EUR more and fly on a decent carrier like Germanwings, Hapag Lloyd Express or a traditional airline.

Low air fares may be price elastic, but Ryanair has seen - at least in Germany - that they can't even fill their flights if they give seats away for free. At some point, the market is simply saturated or people notice the additional cost for a weekend in Malmo (= Hotel, transport, etc) so that even the cheapest fare can't make them fly.

I flew about a dozen times on Ryanair in the past two years. Flights were OK but not spectacular. They alway manage it very well to take any "style" or "fascination" out of flying  Big grin
With these changes mentioned above they would certainly move to my personal no-fly list.

Cheers,

Tom

 
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Crosswind
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:37 pm

Eliminating seatpockets has little to do with minimising loss/damage to safety cards and sickbags!

The main reason for removing seatpockets is reducing the time the lengthy pre-boarding security checks take. Before every flight, the cabin crew are required to security check the eintre cabin, including a visual check of all overhead stowages/equipment stowages and phsically checking every seatback pocket for prohibited items, plus randomly checking 10% of lifejacket stowages. The crew must also security check the toilets and galleys.

This can only be completed once all passengers/caterers/cleaners have left the aircraft, and must be complete before boarding for the next sector commences.

Checking every seatpocket takes some time, even with all the crew doing it. I believe currently the crew remove litter at the same time as checking the seatpockets. With the new seats removing litter from the cabin will also be a faster process.

By removing seatpockets, you substantially reduce the length of time these tasks take, and may shave 5 mins off the required turnaround time.

Ryanair won't reduce the scheduled turaround times, especially since they have a mix of aircraft interior configs in service, but it will allow more time on the turnaround to make up any delays, or give extra time for boarding to ensure an ontime departure.

Also, by in installing non-reclining seats, they not only minimise the cost to purchase the seat, they minimise maintenance costs and also lost revenue - a seat with a faulty recline mechanism is unserviceable, it cannot be occupied until repaired.

Also, don't underestimate the huge fuel savings over the course of the year from having lighter seats due to the lack of a recline mechanism - it may make the aircraft up to a few hundred kg lighter. That will save a fair amount over the course of a year for each aircraft, multiplied by the number of aircraft in Ryanair's fleet that's a lot of money!

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CROSSWIND
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:42 pm

without wanting to paint it black, to me it seems that FR is trying to cut costs so drastically (which is, of course, a very good thing) because they need to "finance" their growth. with the huge order of aircraft and so many new routes they introduce every couple of months, combined with the presence of so many LCCs in europe, one needs to question if their growth strategy is sustainable...

i cannot make a judgement because i´m not fully aware of FR's financial picture but i'm aware they recently warned on earnings for the first time, i believe.

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:51 pm

">>>Where would the safty cards and sick bags be kept?
>>>On the seat back, I should think.

Oh, I´d love to see that in the case of the sick bags"

Airsicknessbag - if you're going to quote me, do so precisely. I said the back of the seats for the safety cards - sick bags were not even mentioned.  Smile
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Ndebele
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:57 pm

Maybe a little off-topic, but I just found this link and I thought I'd share it with you:

http://www.ryanair.com/about/pax_compliments_03.html

Unfortunately I didn't find the link to the negative feedback...
 
jwenting
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:06 pm

How can FR get passengers to carry on their own luggage? Once its checked in it would be impossible for the passengers to retreave their case and then carry it to the aircraft. This would be a serious security breach.

No, there would be no checkin desk.
Ryanair is talking about servicing very small locations that don't have full facilities.
In the current system those facilities would have to be built first, increasing the cost of development.

Aeroflot experimented with this system in the 1980s (albeit for different reasons) and it worked reasonably well.
Just place a bank of X-ray machines (which are now placed in the luggage sorting area) near the exit doors to the ramp (these are small airports, so no jetways or busses) and pull the bags through them when the pax leave the building to board.
One person next to each luggage hatch throws in the bags, and the passengers board through the airstairs (built into the aircraft possibly so the airport doesn't have to invest in even that).

And getting rid of the seat pockets? Not sure about that. Where would the safty cards and sick bags be kept? Unless they're removing the carpets as well so its just a wash down floor.

Printed onto the seatback. At least one LCC already does that.
Saves on replacing stolen or damaged ones, and stickers are cheaper than laminated paper charts.

I think Ryanair is on to something here. They remove the things most pax don't use anyway, thus saving money (on both maintenance and fuel) which they can either pass on to the passengers (lower fees) or the shareholders (lower losses).
I wish I were flying
 
luv2fly
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:12 pm

This just begs me to ask, what is next? Fares priced on what you weigh, weigh less pay less, weigh more and pay more. At what point do you say, "Enough is enough!"
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Ryanair To Cut Reclining Seats, Window Blinds.....

Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:19 pm

"At what point do you say, "Enough is enough!""

Never - there are always means by which to reduce costs and wastage and to thereby operate more efficiently and effectively. Businesses should not become complacent, but rather always seek ways of improving.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."

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