fraT
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Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:44 am

Forgive me if we had this topic before.
Which are the largest U.S. cities with no transatlantic service.
MSY, MSP, STL would come to my mind.
 
BMAbound
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:45 am

MSP has transatlantic service.

regards,

johan
Altitude is Insurance - Get Insured
 
BHMNONREV
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:46 am

MSP has NW and KL service to Europe, I would think STL is the largest metro area without any scheduled transatlantic now....
 
fraT
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:48 am

Of course I forgot NW's service to Europe. My bad.
 
AlitaliaORD
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:51 am

does BA still fly TPA?
i know condor pulled out
Joy To The World, All The Boys and Girls, Joy to the Fishes in the Deep Blue Sea, Joy to You and Me
 
yanksn4
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:52 am

Dosn't Minneapolis also have flights to Iceland on Iceland Air? And dosn't New Orleans have flights on Virgin Atlantic Airlines?
2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
 
LambertMan
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:52 am

MSP has AMS and LGW by NW, and Icelandair services REK w/ a 752 (if you consider it transatlantic). The dubious honor of largest metro w/ no transatlantic does go to STL with MCI next in line without service I believe, MSY has a small population (1.3 million) but is a fairly large leisure destination so that makes up for some of the population difference. STL has been courting LH for sometime to no avail, they were seen recently (when PDX got service) and in the early 90's service was nearly commenced. Maybe if STL would wisen up like DEN or PDX and offer some incentives we could take that great honor away.
Yanksn4, VS is a charter service only to feed the cruis ships
Alitalia, yes Condor pulled out but BA recently went from 2x weekly to 5x in a super dense configuration on the 772 (forgot the official name).

[Edited 2004-02-16 21:54:12]
 
iflyatldl
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:53 am

SAN almost qualifies.  Smile
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
B6FA4ever
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:54 am

well now that BA has stopped their LGW-SAN flight...SAN can be added to the list (for now...)

given that San Antonio, TX has a population of 1mil+ (according to my map on "Microsoft: Streets & Trips) thats a pretty large US city to me. (please correct me if i'm wrong though)  Laugh out loud

~B6FA4ever
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:57 am

if your including metropolitan areas, then i cannot answer your question. however, if you´re just strictly concerned about biggest cities w/o transatlantic service, it should be San Antonio, TX.

according to the Estimates Program, Population Division, U.S. Census Bureau, Washington, DC, it is the 8th biggest US city (population: 1,147,213). however, these figures are from 1999 and retrieved from the net in late 2002.

next biggest cities w/o transatlantic service would be
Indianapolis, IN 738,907
Jacksonville, FL 695,877
Columbus, OH 671,247

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:59 am

seems like B6FA4ever was a bit faster than me...  Wink/being sarcastic

if there´s no BA service to SAN anymore, than that´s the biggest city without service (6th biggest US city).

rgds
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
LambertMan
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:01 am

Johnnybgoode, you must remember that in the grand scheme of things city population really doesn't mean alot. St Louis is a small city 338,000 but recently has annexed a little land and has pushed its metro population to a little over 2.8 million. That metro population is what airlines truly draw from. Big thumbs up
 
iflyatldl
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:03 am

I wasn't sure if SAN was going to qualify or not since BA's service had been reduced from seasonal to suspended. Correct me if I'm wrong.  Smile
Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
 
johnnybgoode
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:04 am

LambertMan, yep, i´m aware of that. thanks for pointing that out again, but that´s why i initially and expressly asked if the question was metro area or city...

but you´re absolutely right, catchment area is much more important than just the city size.

cheers
daniel
If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
 
as739x
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:22 am

San Jose,CA...over 800,000 in the population. Thats not metro population!
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Coronado990
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:25 am

If you are talking about city population, San Diego wins. If you are talking about METRO AREA then Riverside/San Bernadino/Ontario officially wins since the US Census Bureau counts that as a seperate Metro area. But we all know they can use LAX.

After that, San Diego wins again showing that LAX must take the burden of one the largest, if not largest, population centers in the U.S. (if you take into account the LA, SD and Riverside area's).

St. Louis is right behind San Diego...

RANKING TABLE FOR POPULATION METROPOLITAN STATISTICAL AREA:
Source: US Census Bureau 2000.

NYC 18,323,000
LA/OC 12,365,000
CHI 9,098,000
PHL 5,687,000
DFW 5,161,000
MIA/FLL 5,007,000
WAS 4,796,000
HOU 4,715,000
DET 4,452,000
BOS 4,391,000
ATL 4,248,000
SF/OAK/ 4,123,000
RIV/SB/ONT 3,254,000
PHX 3,251,000
SEA 3,043,000
MSP 2,968,000
SAN 2,813,000
STL 2,698,000
BAL(BWI) 2,553,000
PIT 2,431,000
TPA 2,395,000
DEN 2,179,000
CLE 2,148,000
CINN (CVG) 2,009,000
PDX 1,927,000



[Edited 2004-02-16 22:26:44]

[Edited 2004-02-16 22:44:48]
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
Guest

RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:27 am

St. Louis hasn't annexed the land.... it's just one big metro area.
Jacksonville is so large because the city merged with Duval County back in the 1960s to make the largest city land-wise in the continental 48 states... thus it encompasses most of its own metro area.

British Airways apparently talked with Jacksonville before, but the city wouldn't make necessary airport facility improvements. BA does have a presence in the city, with FlyTele's center located in the southside.
 
gigneil
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:28 am

That's the first list I've ever seen that counts Baltimore and Washington as different MSAs.

N
 
BMAbound
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:31 am

So, to expand the question a little, which states do not have transatlantic connections? I can think of Montana, Idaho, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Hawaii...(freebee) Louisiana, Arkansas (?), Delaware, Connecticut, Oklahoma and a few more, but I guess you Yankees are better informed!  Big thumbs up

johan

ps. The list might be rather lenghty, maybe we should try to figure out which states actually do have it...  Embarrassment
Altitude is Insurance - Get Insured
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:35 am

Wisconsin doesn't have any.
Neither does New Mexico.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
as739x
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:35 am

Corondo: those figures don't seem right. SF metro area is around 6.5 million..That must not include a lot of smaller citys in the area
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:36 am

Rhode Island and Vermont also lack service to Europe.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
Coronado990
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:40 am

Baltimore if officially listed as "Baltimore-Towson, MD" and Washington DC is listed as "Washington-Arlington-Alexandria".

I am even more surprised Riverside/San Bernadino/Ontario was separate from the L.A. metro area (which includes Orange County).

It should be noted that no-one ever includes Tijuana as being part of San Diego's metro area but that is a population of over a million right next door.
Uncle SAN at your service!
 
LambertMan
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:42 am

AAJAX, apparently they did annex some type of land. I'm on a development board(my 2nd passion) and they claim that the metro is now 2.8 some million people(someone actually posted a census figure). It comes up frequently because the people from KC often argue about how big St Louis is when compared to KC. Turns into some pretty heated stuff! Big thumbs up
 
VectorVictor
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:42 am

Although not technically one metropolitan area, the San Antonio-Austin area has essentially grown together over the last decade. Austin's 1.146 mil and San Antonio's 1.568 mil gives the concentrated region about 2.8 mil.

I'm not holding my breath for any announcement in the next 5 years, however.
 
toxicmegacolon
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:44 am

Its not that surprising that STL doesn't have transatlantic service though. Its not a particularly tourist-y destination, (like say, Florida, LAS, NYC). And AA has phased it out as an international hub, and is phasing it out as a domestic hub too. The only reason other cities that are similar to St. Louis in size and destination appeal have transatlantic service is because they are hubs....ie DFW, IAH, MSP, MEM, DTW, etc.
That said, does anyone know if CLE has transatlantic service? If not I think THAT woud be surprising.... Its bigger than STL (3.1M vs. 2.8M), AND a hub for Continental...
 
nycfuturepilot
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:44 am

Alitalia, BA does still fly to TPA (from LGW).
Father, Son, HOYA spirit
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:46 am

How come everybody always refers to Reykjavik as REK, when the airport actually used by Icelandair on their flights to "Reykjavik" is actually KEF.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
fraT
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:46 am

States that have transatlantic service:
NY(JFK)
MA (BOS)
VA (IAD)
NC (CLT, RDU)
FA (MIA, MCO and some charter destinations)
NJ (EWR)
PA (PHL, PIT)
IL (ORD)
WI (DTW)
OH (CLE)
KY (CVG)
TX (IAH, DFW)
AZ (PHX)
CA (LAX, SFO)
OR (PDX)
WA (SEA)
AK (Charters)
MN (MSP)
GA (ATL)
MD (WI / KBWI), USA - Maryland">BWI)

Díd I miss anything?
 
Coronado990
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:47 am

As739x:

My mistake. The 4,123,000 figure is for San Francisco and Oakland only. San Jose should not have been included. The SJC metro area is listed as 1,735,000.

Thanks, Coronado990

Uncle SAN at your service!
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:51 am

FraT, the state abbreviation for Florida is FL. DTW is in Michigan, not Wisconsin.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
VC745D
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:52 am

VS does not serve MSY. BA flew 1011-500s to LGW for a while ca. 1984.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:54 am

To add on to FraT's list:

TN (MEM)
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
as739x
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:55 am

http://www.demographia.com/db-uscity98.htm

According to this the answer as the question as worded. Largest city's without are!

1. San Diego
2. San Antonio
3. San Jose
4. Indy
5. Jacksonville
6. Columbus
7. Austin
8. Milwaukee
9. El Paso
10. Nashville

Correct me if one of these city's do have service to Europe, but I don't think regular scheduled they do.
ASSFO

"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
toxicmegacolon
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:56 am

The population estimates posted by Coronado are the MSA (metropolitan statstical area) population estimates Like the non-metro population, the MSA miss alot of people who don't count as part of a city because of a technicality. The really releavent ones (especially when determinng how 'big' a city is are the CMSA estimates used by the cesnus. They are more practical... That list changes the order of thigns around a little bit, and accounts for the fact that Baltimore is part of the DC metroplex, and that Orange County is part of greater, greater LA...

So the order then becomes

1. NYC-Northern NJ
2. LA-Orange County
3. Chicago
4. DC-Baltimore
5. Bay Area
6. Philly and surrounding suburbs
7. Boston
8. Detroit
9. Dallas-FW
10. Houston-Galveston
11. Hot-lanta, GA
12. Miami-Ft. Lauderdale
13. Seattle-Tacoma
14. Phoenix
15.Twin Cities, MN
16. Cleveland
17. San Diego
18. St. Louis
19. Denver
20. Pittsburg
 
fraT
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:56 am

Thanks KaiGywer, I was a bit to quick.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:57 am

FraT, nice list though  Smile How long did it take you to come up with it?
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
graham697
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 6:59 am

FraT:
Under Florida, TPA also has sched service with BA
Looking forward to the new AA
 
Msh744
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:00 am

Providence, Rhode Island has transatlantic service during the summer. Airlines that serve PVD on this route are SATA and Air Luxor. The flights go to Ponta Delgada, in the Azores.

-Msh744

[Edited 2004-02-16 23:08:02]

[Edited 2004-02-16 23:08:34]
 
LambertMan
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:03 am

Toxic, you say they are phasing STL out. If you mean that by what they did on Nov. 1st, okay, I agree. Lately they have actually been adding flights back just as lately as yesterday. Trust me, I realize the reason why CVG has flights to Holland(soon), Germany, UK, Italy(soon) AND twice daily to France is because it is a hub. Big grin Yes, CO serves LGW from CLE with a seasonal 752 that has recently been showing up in holiday scheds. Big thumbs up
 
toxicmegacolon
Posts: 21
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:30 am

Kai, "REK" means all Reykjavic airports, including KEF. In the same way that the "NYC" code includes JFK, LGA, EWR, or "QHO" includes HOU and IAH.
 
EddieIAH
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:34 am

"The only reason other cities that are similar to St. Louis in size and destination appeal have transatlantic service is because they are hubs....ie DFW, IAH, MSP, MEM, DTW, etc."
Not exactly. DFW has 5.2 million people around it, IAH 4.7 million, DTW 4.5 million...According to World Traveler/ holland herald, MEM does not have transatlantic service. It is true, though, that MSP is a huge hub for NW.
Eddie
 
as739x
Posts: 5018
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:45 am

Eddie: World Traveller Holland is wrong! There is a NW DC-10 MEM-AMS daily
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:51 am

ToxicMegacolon, but they only fly to one of them  Big grin
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
Guest

RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:21 am

Some of you may need to look again at the definition of a metro area... or rather a MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area, or Micropolitan Statistical Area) as used in reaching these numbers.

The general concept of a metropolitan or micropolitan statistical area is that of a core area containing a substantial population nucleus, together with adjacent communities having a high degree of economic and social integration with that core.

Annexing land may or may not have anything to do with a MSA. A good rule of thumb is to look at where people commute to work. If it's a majority, they are a MSA. This explains Riverside/Ontario being separate from Orange County and Los Angeles, for example.

AAJAX, apparently they did annex some type of land.

Perhaps this raised the actual city of St. Louis' population. However, I believe well over 100 municipalities make up the St. Louis MSA, including about 80 in St. Louis county alone, plus unincorporated areas (where I live in Wildwood was unincorporated until relatively recently).

MSAs and airport catchment areas do not necessarily add up. Jacksonville's airport serves more than just Jacksonville, but as far away as Brunswick, Gainesville, and Valdosta. Omaha's airport serves much more than just Omaha's MSA, as people drive from as far as three hours away to use the airport (including many from Des Moines, which has its own airport, due to the lower airfares). St. Louis has people driving from places like Marion, Cape Girardeau, and Columbia, which may have their own airline service but come to STL for lower airfares on certain carriers. I'm sure there's a more accurate list of how many people each airport actually serves out there.
 
flymia
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Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:57 am

Well i dont know if Clevaland and San Diego dont have service to Europe. Did CO get rid of it in CLE and did BA get rid of it in SAN. Well if they did then It would be San Diego and Clevaland have the biggest metropolitain areas.
City along The winner would be San Diego if they dont have service any more.
But the sure top is San Antonio. I know for a fact that they dont have any service. Then comes San Jose Indiapolis and Jacksonville.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
ssides
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:41 am

It's by far more accurate to consider this question by metro area. Still, San Diego is tops either way.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
VC10BOAC
Posts: 387
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RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:45 am

Continental flies CLE - LGW during the summer months.
 
Guest

RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:12 am

Coronado990,

What is this Baltimore-Washington thing?

There is an invisible line running down the middle of Maryland. One side is telephone area code 410, and those people read the Baltimore Sun. The other side is telephone area code 301, and those people read the Washington Post. In our case (Montgomery County, Maryland) the cable company has gone so far as to block Baltimore TV channels. We are definitely a Washington DC suburb  Smile

 
trijetfan1
Posts: 1098
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:29 am

RE: Largest U.S. Cities With No Service To Europe

Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:40 am

Flymia- I asked on another post if CO would dump CLE and everyone said no. But there are rumors of a full year service of CLE-LGW, a one week only 764 service to Honolulu, 762 service to AMS out of CLE (seasonal), and a 762 service to CDG. These are rumors though.
-TriJetFan1

[Edited 2004-02-17 02:47:46]
Earned PPL June 26, 2007

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