LambertMan
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F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:01 am

Well this is kind of surprising, PHL will start out as a two city market for F9 with the obviuos and the other being LAX. At least that is what it shows on the route map. Sorry if this was something already that has already been brought up.
 
alphascan
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:05 am

Where did you see the route map? Could you post a link? If not, guess we'll know in about 3 hours.
"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
 
usairways85
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:06 am

really??? That's great. I was thinking about this and that it could be a possibilty F9 serves both DEN and LAX.

No, this is definitely new since everyone was just assuming F9 would only fly from DEN
 
MSYtristar
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:09 am

Wow. I wasn't expecting this from the get go. I think PHL-LAX will be a good market. Interesting move to say the least...but a good one...the fares in PHL-LAX will go down substantially. F9's coach product is much better than what US offers. I can definetely see us getting some market share from US.


Steve/NewOrleans
 
haveric
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:09 am

Man, I really thought they'd open service from DEN to Little Rock!!

Seriously though, this was an obvious choice for F9, despite what the "experts" on this site have said.
 
WMUPilot
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:11 am

http://www.frontierairlines.com/

click on the picture of the United States in the book flight section.
JetBlue - Bringing humanity back to air travel
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:11 am

PHL - LAX - I was hoping for it, but I wasn't holding my breath:

http://www.frontierairlines.com/

Click on the map and you'll see.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
LambertMan
Topic Author
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:11 am

Possibly they are positioning themselves in PHL if US folds to really make some type of a focus city along the lines of LAX. LAX, DEN, and PHL five years down the road would look real good balance and O/D wise. PIT fans have to be crying about them choosing PHL over them.
 
haveric
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:13 am

PHL is at least 3x the size of PIT in terms of O/D. Also US has a greater % of PIT traffic than they do PHL....
 
DIA
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:14 am

Look on the lower, lefthand side of the page. It says "Route Map" and has Philidelphia alredy on there.

http://www.frontierairlines.com/

Also, they have just listed PHL as a future city under their headlines.
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usairways85
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:20 am

PHL is also loaded into the schedules.
2x daily to DEN
1x daily to LAX
 
DIA
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:29 am

I haven't followed every posting on this. . .so let me throw this bone out to you guys. . .

Does it look as if F9's next hubs, or focus cities, will be L.A. and Philidelphia? A balanced route system. . .LAX, DEN, PHL. . .looks good at least.
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SunValley
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:33 am

I would also expect a reaction from US soon. (kind of like the NW reaction to F9) and the dumping of lots of seats onto the market.
 
DIA
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:35 am

I agree with SunValley. The fact is, you can only expand so much before you have to start stepping on other's toes.
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mariner
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 1:43 am

SunValley and DIA:

I'm sure you're both right, but I'm not sure how much dumping US can do.

They are already gearing up for battle with Southwest's arrival at PHL, and they are not in the same financial position as NW.

DIA:

I agree with your comment that a LAX/DEN/PHL axis looks good.

But given that Southwest is setting up shop at PHL, I'm not sure if F9 would do the same.

A superstitious thought: the PHL flight means that F9 will (I think) have 13 daily departures from LAX.

13? Maybe they'll add a flight to somewhere else to get away from #13.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ual747den
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:14 am

Great News!!! I do not think that F9 will be trying to have any kind of hub at PHL what you see now is how it will stay. F9 will not go up against WN and the fact that they are doing LAX is even surprising. Im sure US is not going to be very happy about this but in all reality they cant do anything about it. They are a broke airline just waiting to go out of business.... Great job F9
/// UNITED AIRLINES
 
Kohflot
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:24 am

Keep in mind, PHL-LAX isn't a move only against USAirways. There's a certain little Chicago-based airline that's had a little experience competing with Frontier and that also operates a few PHL-LAX roundtrips themselves.....
Ask why..
 
NWAFA
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:31 am

But that "little chicago based" airline has flown PHL-LAX for a long time now.

Wow,F9 doing LAX-PHL.......keep strong USAir!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
luv2fly
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:36 am

I think it was in reference to UA!!!! US is not a Chicago based carrier.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
NWAFA
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:38 am

if your talking to me, Luv2fly, yea that is who I was talking about. UA has flown Philly-LAX for a long time. I was just wishing USAir good luck!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
PVD757
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:39 am

Things certainly continue to get interesting, still hoping F9 will fly into PVD. I too am surprised at the LAX flight, F9 will be conpeting against 2 other carriers on the route, something they seem to try avoid when possible...
 
USAFHummer
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 4:54 am

Chalk me up as well for being shocked at the PHL-LAX by F9 announcement (which will be their longest flight I believe?)...whats next for F9?

Greg
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Kohflot
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:03 am

The more I think about this, the more I think it's a pre-emptive move.. against America West and ATA. Both have been opportunistically adding transcons. With the problems at US, it was likely only a matter of time before either (or both) of them move in with flights from the west coast. Frontier's boldly staking a claim before it happens...

It likely doesn't help Independence Air either.. just more LCC saturation in their markets before they get off the ground..
Ask why..
 
rthrbeflying86
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:40 am

So what's the news on F9's gate space at PHL? I didn't see anything in their press release.

Dan
I'd rather be flying.
 
NWAFA
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 5:54 am

What is the story of "independance air"...where? when?
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
dia77
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:01 am

USAFHummer,

DEN-ANC will actually be F9's longest flight (2399 miles). It's 4 miles longer than LAX-PHL (2395 miles), according to F9's website.
 
flashmeister
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:02 am

WOW - PHL-LAX total price is $218 with taxes. That's cheap.  Smile Hope F9 can make some money on this route...
 
flyboy7974
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:33 am

the smartest thing about this new move is that frontier attacks two routes that are dominated by the alliance between usairways and united, they have dominated the den and lax market out of phl for sometime now, most thought f9 would just attack denver, but lax is a smart move instead of leaving the planes parked overnight, they get better utilization out of the airbus
 
flyboy7974
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:33 am

the smartest thing about this new move is that frontier attacks two routes that are dominated by the alliance between usairways and united, they have dominated the den and lax market out of phl for sometime now, most thought f9 would just attack denver, but lax is a smart move instead of leaving the planes parked overnight, they get better utilization out of the airbus
 
F9Fan
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 9:58 am

I like the move to PHL. Did anyone notice that the LAX-PHL flight number is 1776? Cute.

A focus city at PHL is intriguing. I think it could work better as a mini-hub linking flights from the northeast urban corridor and upper midwest (LGA, BOS, BDL, PVD, BWI, DCA, IAD, BUF, PIT, CLE, CMH, and DTW for example) with the southeast and Florida (CLT, ATL, JAX, MCO, TPA, RSW, and FLL for example). Of course, not all those cities are served by F9 at this time.

F9Fan
 
haveric
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:25 am

F9Fan -- so long as US remains a viable carrier, there is no gate space for a mini-F9 hub at PHL.

However, there is talk of building a hammerhead on Terminal E. Whether or not this happens, and to what airline (WN, TZ, F9) these new gates would to go, remains up in the air.

Eric
 
DCA-ROCguy
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:29 pm

I agree, Kohflot. Sounds like Frontier doesn't want to be left out of the LCC transcon ballgame. But their current route system doesn't offer many transcon possibilities that don't have nonstop LCC service yet.

In the (non-Florida) east, Frontier currently serves LGA, BWI, DCA, ATL, and is scheduled to enter PHL and (on 4/11) IAD. Transcons aren't allowed from LGA, if I remember right. Southwest is running BWI-LAX, -SAN, and -SJC. Surprisingly no OAK...maybe Frontier could do BWI-SFO. IAD has JetBlue flying to OAK and LGB. AirTran and Delta are battling on ATL-LAX and -SFO. Maybe Frontier could do PHL-SEA as well.

Good luck to Frontier in bringing down fares on their Philly routes!

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
Carfield
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Fri Feb 20, 2004 2:49 pm

Well the new F9 schedule from LAX to PHL is both redeye departures. Leaving PHL around 9pm and arriving LA around 11pm... the return will leave LA around 10pm and arrive PHL at daybreak. I guess it is a smart way to improve the utilization of the aircrafts... instead of sitting at PHL waiting for the morning flight next am, if not fly it to LA and improve the utlization rate. I don't think F9 will pose any threat to US or UA's PHL-LAX flight. But I am sure there will be some students or leisure flyers, who will take advantage of F9 flights. Looking at the state of US Airways -- Frontier offers a competitive, if not better service than US... except the lack of first class.

DEN-PHL twice daily schedules look pretty typical...

Good luck!

Carfield
 
DIA
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:36 am

Here's the official press release on F9's site (with flight times): http://www.frontierairlines.com/news/articleDisplay.asp?article=/general/2004/pr_02192004.news
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elwood64151
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:58 am

http://www.frontierairlines.com/news/articleDisplay.asp?article=/general/2004/pr_02192004.news

Frontier Airlines Heads East with New Service (Feb. 19, 2004)
Frontier to Add Daily Non-Stops from Los Angeles and Denver to Philadelphia

DENVER (Feb. 19, 2004) - Frontier Airlines (Nasdaq: FRNT) today announced plans to begin service between its Denver International Airport (DEN) hub and Philadelphia International Airport (PHL), as well as between Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) and Philadelphia. The service will start on May 23, 2004 from both destinations, with two daily non-stops between Denver and Philadelphia, and one daily non-stop between Los Angeles and Philadelphia. In addition, Philadelphia travelers can take advantage of Frontier's extensive national network with connecting flights to over 15 destinations in the West, while enjoying one of the best in-flight experiences in the industry with 24 channels of LiveTV, 33 inches of legroom and the ultimate in customer service from Frontier's incomparable employees.

"Philadelphia is an ideal market for Frontier," said Sean Menke, senior vice president of marketing. "As a city, Philadelphia offers the perfect mix of business travelers who want to leverage its thriving economy and leisure travelers who view Philadelphia as an American treasure and a great vacation destination. We believe that our new Los Angeles and Denver service are testaments to the fact that Philadelphia International Airport is a critical destination within our network, and Frontier looks forward to working with the Airport, the City and all of our employees to bring the best in air travel to Philadelphia."

"We are extremely pleased to welcome Frontier to our family of low-fare airlines," said Charles Isdell, Director of Aviation at Philadelphia International Airport. "In Philadelphia, we are continuously striving to provide our patrons with the finest choices in air service options at competitive prices, and Frontier will greatly assist us in achieving our goal. We are certain that travelers will take advantage of Frontier's competitive fares to the forty-plus destinations in its impressive network."

Following are Philadelphia flight schedules:

Denver-Philadelphia
Flight Number Departs Arrives Frequency
448 10:50 a.m. 4:15 p.m. Daily
444 3:00 p.m. 8:25 p.m. Daily

Philadelphia-Denver
Flight Number Departs Arrives Frequency
445 8:50 a.m. 10:50 a.m. Daily
449 5:55 p.m. 7:55 p.m. Daily


Philadelphia-Los Angeles
Flight Number Departs Arrives Frequency
1775 9:10 p.m. 11:55 p.m. Daily


Los Angeles-Philadelphia
Flight Number Departs Arrives Frequency
1776 11:20 p.m. 7:25 a.m. Daily


All times given in local arrival or departure city times.

The airline also provided introductory Philadelphia fares for flights to/from Denver from $109 for off-peak travel (Tues. and Wed.) and $129 for peak travel, one-way round-trip purchase required, and to/from Los Angeles from $99 for both peak and off-peak travel, one-way round-trip purchase required*. All sale fares must be purchased by 10:00 p.m. MT, Mar. 18, 2004. To make a reservation, customers may visit Frontier's Web site at www.frontierairlines.com, contact Frontier Airlines at 1-800-4321-FLY, or consult their professional travel agent.

*Once purchased, these fares are non-refundable and non-transferable, but may be reissued for a $100 change fee plus any applicable difference in fare. Fares do not include passenger facilities fees of up to $18 round-trip, the September 11th Security Fee of $2.50 per enplanement, or segment fees of $3.10 per segment. A segment is defined as one takeoff and one landing. Prices subject to change and other restrictions may apply.

To celebrate the new service, members of Frontier Airlines' frequent flyer program, EarlyReturns, will receive double bonus miles for travel to and from Philadelphia between May 23, 2004 and July 23, 2004. To enroll in the program, customers can visit Frontier's Web site at www.frontierairlines.com, pick up an EarlyReturns enrollment form at any Frontier airport counter or call Frontier's EarlyReturns Service Center toll-free hotline at 866-26-EARLY or Frontier's reservations at 800-4321-FLY.

About Frontier
Currently in its tenth year of operations, Denver-based Frontier Airlines is the second largest jet service carrier at Denver International Airport with a fleet of 39 aircraft and employing approximately 3,900 aviation professionals. Frontier, in conjunction with Frontier JetExpress operated by Horizon Air, operates routes linking our Denver hub to 37 cities in 22 states spanning the nation from coast-to-coast and to five cities in Mexico. Frontier's maintenance and engineering department has received the Federal Aviation Administration's highest award, the Diamond Certificate of Excellence, in recognition of 100 percent of its maintenance and engineering employees completing advanced aircraft maintenance training programs, for four consecutive years. In August 2003, Frontier ranked as one of the "Top 10 Domestic Airlines" as determined by readers of Travel + Leisure magazine. Frontier provides capacity information and other operating statistics on its Web site, which may be viewed at www.frontierairlines.com.

------------------------------

Excellent news both for F9 and PHL. Lower coast-to-coast fares for people in that market, and good news for the expansion of F9.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
 
Jaws707
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:17 am

A little off topic, but does Frontier still have an agreement with Mesa? I found some CRJ-200 photos painted in the Frontier colors that were operated by Mesa, but on the Frontier website it states that the agreement is with Horizon air, who currently flies 4 CRJ-700 and that will expand to 9 by the end of May.
 
ScottB
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:27 am

Another somewhat off-topic observation -- flights 1775 and 1776 seem to be Frontier's first regularly scheduled flight numbers above 1000 operated on Frontier aircraft (as opposed to JetExpress and Great Lakes codeshares).

I don't really think that three flights mean a focus city...  Big grin I think it's more an opportunistic way to get better utilization on an aircraft that would be sitting at PHL for 8-10 hours otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised to see WN, HP, or TZ jump into PHL-LAX at some point, though. It's a big market (over 900 daily passengers) with high yields.
 
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mariner
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RE: F9 Will Do PHL-DEN And LAX

Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:01 am

Jaws707:

No. Mesa ended its realtionship with Frontier in order to fly Express for UAL out of DEN.

This left Frontier free, happily, to find someone else, and they now have a twelve year contract with Horizon to fly as Frontier Jet Express.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta