SailorOrion
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Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:39 pm

German press reports that for the summer schedule 2004, LH has more weekly operations in MUC than it has in FRA. However, MUC's intercont schedule still is about a quarter of FRA's and the average aircraft size in MUC is significantly smaller. But, it's a good start  Smile

Rumors say that LH will go double-daily on MUC-SFO and MUC-NYC (all A340) next year.

Have a nice weekend
SailorOrion
 
LHR001
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:45 pm

Wonderful News....


The Bayern Region is one of the wealthiest in Europe and Lufthansa is finally starting to realize it with the growth in Munich as of the past 5 years.


LHR001
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:03 pm

And it will continue to grow until FRA gets it's fourth runway.
I hope some people will realize that FRA is in danger to loose a lot of traffic (and jobs) if they continue blocking the expansion here.
 
LHR001
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:34 pm

Many years ago wasnt Lufthansa's base of operations at Koln?



LHR001
 
Andreas
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:40 pm

No, not that I know, but LH's headquarter (still) is in Cologne, von-Gablenz-Strasse, located directly at the River Rhine!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
 
LHR001
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:43 pm

Ok....


That is why!


Thank you for the information!


LHR001
 
TriStar500
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:50 pm

AFAIK, only the financial HQ is still in Cologne. The operational HQ is in FRA. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:12 pm

Good news, especially because I'm just 2 hours away from MUC, altough I prefer travelling through AMS  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Could be nice for spotting at MUC

regards, Flo
 
Phaeton
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:41 pm

Good news for MUC.

If traffic should grow over the next couple of years at MUC, they should really consider getting the Transrapid (extremely high-speed train) which will connect the airport to the Central Station. The S-Bahns take up to forty minutes and the Autobahn is blocked up quite a lot. In this respect FRA has still got a major advantage.

But because a lot of people would only travel through Munich airport, it doesn't really matter.

Cheers!
"History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.", Winston Churchill
 
Guest

RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:34 pm

MUC is a good hub but very bad for surface transportation within Germany.
Train and car connections are much better via FRA.
 
TomFoolery
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:51 pm

As a frequent user of MUC, I am happy to see the continued growth. With any luck, this could also lead to an increase in daily flights between the US and MUC. I know many people who just don't like connecting through FRA, myself included. MUC is a great location for me as it is within an hour or so from most of the places I go in the area.

Cheers,

TF
Paper makes an airplane fly
 
groobster
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:15 am

MUC is a nice airport, but it is one hell of a walk from the terminal to the car hire area!

Nice drive down to Salzburg from there
Next flights: Nothing
 
godbless
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:02 am

Next week I will finally be at MUC for the first time. I'll fly in from CGN on my way to ARN...

Here a few pictures of the Lufthansa building in Cologne.



Max
 
123
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:51 am

Any news if they will reactivate GRU service to and from MUC, it ran a short while only?
 
as739x
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 1:59 am

I have been surprised that LH has not placed a 744 on MUC-SFO. From what I have been told that MUC does very well out of SFO. My family flew it a few years back and were not able to sit together it was so full. However they do refuse to ever fly on a A340 again. LH really packs ecenomy in there.
So will the second SFO flight also be a A340?
ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
fraT
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 2:38 am

Most likely as LH is not flying any 744's out of MUC. I think they will keep it like that for a while to fly the 744 out of FRA only.
 
N670UW
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:47 am

Any word on the MUC-PIT route lately?




670
 
a3xx900
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 5:59 am

--Rumors say that LH will go double-daily on MUC-SFO and MUC-NYC (all A340) next year.-- Why double-daily on flights that are not even daily now? IMO, they should increase pax space by using bigger A/C, like the 346.

--Most likely as LH is not flying any 744's out of MUC. I think they will keep it like that for a while to fly the 744 out of FRA only.-- Some MUC employee once told me that LH will bring all the A340 maintenance to MUC. I'd sure love to see that, but it's just a rumor. Even the LH chief technician in MUC denied it. But also to me that seems like a good possibility, since there is a lot of A340 traffic there.

--If traffic should grow over the next couple of years at MUC, they should really consider getting the Transrapid (extremely high-speed train) which will connect the airport to the Central Station.-- Not necessary. If the Bavarian government would just think for 5 cents about that, they would realize that a direct S-Bahn connection would to too. This plus an additional ICE connection would give MUC the same infrastructural advantages as FRA, but would cost only a fraction of the Transrapid costs.

IMO MUC will be the future LH main hub. There is still a lot of space for expansion and the importance of the Hallbergmoos area will increase in the future. In addition to that, Bavaria has much more soft site-related factors than the Frankfurt area.

Btw, does anyone know if FRA is capable of the A380?
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codeshare
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:31 am

Maybe decreasing the number of operations in FRA and transferring them to MUC, will allow for FRA to receive more foreign airlines?
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PW100
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:39 am

Did that LH financial HQ got flooded with the high waters a couple of years ago??

I always wonderd if the ultimate strategy of LH was to transform MUC into their main hub, and sort of abandon/downgrade FRA. I was and still am sceptical at airlines having two hubs so closely separated:
* AF ORY/CDG did not work as multi-hub. ORY now primarily servesomestic routes and overseas France;
* IB MAD/BAR does not work. IB decided on MAD with an amazingly new hub becoming reality shortly;
* BA LHR/LGW/MAN? Even LHR is the most slot contrained and overcrwoded airport in the world, BA decided to basically drop LGW hub wise.
* SK seems not to be able to decide on a single hub, and can not get any of their hubs working properly to the likes of FRA/CDG/AMS;
* AZ MXP/LIN/FCO, Rest my case.
* Multiple examples in the US [previously and currently] og close hubs that didn't/don't work.


I'm very curious to see the development of MUC in the next ten years relative to FRA, and the LH hub strategy [not to mention a possible new BER hub, who woiuld like to hub overthere in 10 years time!?].
Is there any talk at MUC on a third runway, and how about the satelite terminal for T2?

PW100
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UnitedFirst
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:45 am

* SK seems not to be able to decide on a single hub, and can not get any of their hubs working properly to the likes of FRA/CDG/AMS;

I personally feel as though that's an unfair way to look at that situation. Unlike most major European carriers, SAS is the national airline of three different countries; therefore, it's not surprising that its hub system is rather "messy."

However, I would credit them with making a decent longhaul hub in Copenhagen, as well as doing an admirable job serving the other two Scandinavian capitals, Stockholm and Oslo, with service to New York & Chicago (I'm pretty sure all 3 have service to Newark – O'Hare as well, right?), as well as many Scandinavian/European destinations.

Derek
 
yulguy
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:29 am

Is Lufthansa going to bring back the Montreal-Munich service?
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SailorOrion
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:47 pm

Yulguy:

Yes it will restart in June, and it is rumored to continue through the winter (possibly with a reduced frequency)

SailorOrion
 
mozart
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:26 pm

Really good news for Munich!! Although I still miss those 744s. I remember how great it looked back in 2001 when you had two of the big birds sitting next to each other at the terminal (both the LAX and SFO flights left in the 11h30 hub wave)

However, to throw in my user's point of view: if LH wants to upgrade MUC to a REAL hub, they should cease that nasty habit of using all those RJs (ARJ, CRJ, ATR). Munich must be one of the biggest RJ airports in Europe. It's OK for low volume routes like MUC-BOD, but honestly, MUC-AMS is EXCLUSIVELY served by CRJs (based on timetable for 23 Feb). Other routes like MXP see only one "real plane" (737 in this case), CDG for a long time was 2 737s and 5 CRJs, and so on... I know, some people will comment that this makes economic sense, and so would LH who always think in terms of economics by efficiency but never in terms of economics based on superior pax comfort and service. Granted. But then 1) I am arguing from a PAX point of view (pax hate those planes) and 2) as long as many of these routes can only be served by small planes, that is a sign of how under-developed the hub still is.
 
TriStar500
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:42 pm

Mozart,

I have to disagree with you. MUC is a RJ-dominated hub for now, but this makes sense in the long run. If Lufthansa would only be using mainline equipment, only a fraction of today's frequencies could be offered to the customers. This would result in not four, but probably just one or two daily connecting banks, which would make a hub operation totally unattractive to the customers.

Some routes need time to develop, and so it might take a few years until it they get upgraded to mainline equipment. Just remember that the LH hub in MUC is merely ten years old!

It might not be nice from the passenger comfort perspective, I have to agree with you about that point, but for passenger convenience and the attractiveness of LH's operation, it is the only solution for now.

Demanding to upgrade more services than necessary to mainline equipment would kill of a developing hub with a high potential, because it would be like throwing your moneydown the drain.

Just look at AF's LYS operation - do you think it would have ever come into existence if AF would still only be fliyng with 737's and A32S like 10-12 years ago?

 Smile
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
 
ETStar
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:43 pm

Mozart, your argument would support the reason why there are no 744s flying out of MUC. I personally tend to like those RJ's since they allow for quick loading/unloading. I hate having to wait at least 20 minutes for everyone to get on board and get going. RJs are great as long as the flights are not longer than 1.5 hours. I am 6'1 and found the CRJ to be comfy (leg room wise). Have not had a chance to try out the Jungle Jet.
 
Horus
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:59 am


Are Lufthansa going to reinstate their Munich-Cairo flights?

I think they terminated them in 2002. They were operating 4 weekly flights using A320/A319s
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Lufthansa747
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RE: Lufthansa Now Has MUC As #1 Hub ... Kind Of

Sun Feb 22, 2004 3:53 am

Just start a MUC-BKK 744 as the current LH9xxx won't price at LH usual price levels.
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