jfazzer
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 4:02 am

Northwest To MAN

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:29 pm

I was talking to a fellow spotter at Manchester on Monday and he said that he had heard Northwest were considering a route from DTW to MAN.
Personally I think that KLM wouldn't be to happy about this but now I am not so sure. Have any of you out there herd about the route?
While we are on the subject of routes from MAN, there are some definite ones that I believe would be highly successful but are not currently served such as:
MAN - LAX - possibly United or American
MAN - DEL - Air India
MAN - HKG - Bring back Cathay Pacific!!!!
 
gkirk
Posts: 23347
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:33 pm

Theres been talk of NW starting DTW-MAN for years (even using 757-200s!).
CX are supposedly returning on pax flights from MAN next year routing MAN-SVO-HKG 2 x weekly and MAN-MUC-HKG 2 x weekly, both routes using A340-300 a.c

Air India, maybe.
MAN-LAX was tried a few years ago by BA using a 767 but didnt last long. Who knows, maybe AA could try this route now, but I would expect AA to start MAN-MIA before a MAN-LAX
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
oerk
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 10:41 pm

RE: Northwest To MAN

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:33 pm

NW to MAN would be excellent, but it would probably be done with DC-10 equipment if started in the coming year...
 
jfazzer
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 4:02 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:46 pm

Gkirk, thanks for the info,
Where did you hear about the Cathay routing? I half expected them to down-grade the equipment from 747-400's to A340-300's in the first place rather than stopping the route altogether.
I would be nice to see them back however.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2497
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:21 pm

Why would KL be mad about MAN-DTW service? Who would backtrack thru AMS? There's too many other options to fly direct to the states from MAN, I doubt KL is a big player in the MAN-US market.
 
MYT332
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:31 pm

RE: Northwest To MAN

Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:27 pm

Actually quite a few people will backtrack to AMS as it works out cheaper. A friend of mine and his family did this last year, although i personally would like to head in the right direction to start with.

NW at MAN, would love it. When MYT's DC-10's are gone who else will there be up here? No really, i cant think of the top of my head!

-
Alex

One Life, Live it.
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
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RE: Northwest To MAN

Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:31 pm

We have heard about MAN for years...
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
David_itl
Posts: 5970
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RE: Northwest To MAN

Fri Feb 20, 2004 11:31 pm


The rumours of Northwest at MAN began circulating in 1986. (Though the route they were after at the time was BOS).

David
 
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jetjack74
Posts: 6585
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 12:00 am

Yes it's been talked about, but doubt it'll happen anytime soon. The only route slated for announcement for the year so far is MSP-CDG. Maybe next year, right now I wouldn't bet on it.
Made from jets!
 
HUYfan
Posts: 1184
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 9:38 pm

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:05 am

NW DID operate some years back on the Manchester-Boston route.

I would say when the 332's are delivered, they would be the perfect a/c to serve the route to DTW, daily in summer and 5xweekly in the winter.

Regards

Mike
 
rutankrd
Posts: 2613
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:29 am

HUYfan unless you were in a packing crate the chance of ever flying NW on a scheduled flight from Manchester in the past was NIL( DIVs excluded) !
Yes NW922/3 did used to transit Manchester many moons ago but that was a 5 times a week B747-251F Cargo flight !
It was in fact a multi-point service routing East bound from Boston and/or Minneapolis to Stockholm/Amsterdam then Manchester back across the atlantic to JFK/Boston/Minneapolis then onto Seattle Anchorage and over the Pacific to Tokyo !
Eventually they transfered this service south to Gatwick then prompty withdrew the European Cargo links completely !
As David said the chatter of whether NorthWest would like to commence scheduled passenger services to Manchester is now an annual event and dates back to the late eighties!
Somehow their very large commitment to Amsterdam and KLM partnership with their frequent connecting flights to Schipol simply makes it rather to risky to start what are after all low yield routes from the likes of Manchester these days !
So are they coming NO TIME SOON !
 
KA501
Posts: 238
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:27 pm

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:31 am

Can't ever remember NW serving Boston from Manchester with passenger services.

As for the BA LAX service another case of BA messing up. According to a member of Manchester BA crew the route was profitable and yet stopped because the cargo was never included in the final analysis.

 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:31 am

At a company meeting a year or so ago the talk was M&M for NWA. Madrid and Manchester. Just a rumor. Madrid came to past.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
Capital146
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RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:03 am

I heard that loads on BA's MAN-LAX were superb, but only in economy, and that it was due to a shortfall in premium passenger the route struggled to make a decent profit. Seeing as AA are starting an all Y BOS-MAN service, maybe they can go one step further and offer an all Y LAX-MAN with a 763!  Wink/being sarcastic

(that was a joke before anyone starts to take me seriously!  Smile )
Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4344
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:05 am

CX is 100% starting MAN 4 times a week with A 343s ...twice a week each via MUNICH and MOSCOW respectively.

Yes MAN-DEL would be a money minting route for any UK/INDIAN carrier flying it 3-4 times a week. Since BMI specialize in long haul routes out of MAN, they should seriously give DEL a consideration 3 times a week with their A 332s which can then provide nice connections to their ORD-IAD and YYZ flights...all 3 cities popular with the Indian pax!!!

DTW-MAN would work with A 330s because DTW is NWs biggest hub so it can take pax anywhere in CAN or US via DTW so the potential of the route is good even in taking in high yield J WBC class pax. However MAN-LAX is mostly a leisure route and not high yield I think. It could support a nonstop flight if it was all economy class or eco + prem eco.
 
redtailmsp
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:05 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:13 am

Yes, there have been Marketing Studies done for flights to Man, as well as Gla and several other secondary cities in Europe. These have been done in the past, the present and will continue to be done in the future. At some point, you may see NWA doing such flights, but not in the immediate future - and certainly not with A330's in the foreseeable future. Maybe with surplus DC10 capacity due to A330 deliveries, something may come of it in 2005, but I would have thought the DC10/A330 too big for these markets. Yes, they did consider the 757-200 at one time from Bos, which would have been about right capacity-wise, but other carriers have jumped onto the Bos market. Also, this will not happen as the 757-200 will NOT become ETOPS certified with NWA.
 
NWAFA
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RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:19 am

RedTail

Correct me if Im wrong, are the 757-200's (5600 a/c) not partially ETOPS? I know the -300 is.
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
Guest

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:30 am

In the late 1990s, NW mentioned interest in the following routes ex-DTW:

Asia:
existing flights: NRT, KIX, NGO, PEK/PVG
interest: second NRT, HKG

Europe:
existing flights: 4xAMS (later operated as 5x), 2xLGW, CDG, FRA, FCO
interest: DUB-SNN, GLA, MAN, MUC (*some may have been seasonal)

- - -

Of course, the old NW terminal at DTW couldn't handle more flights than what they were operating... the airline could only handle two simultaneous B744 departures (three but it cut use of two more gates) -- but that added ~1200 people in the F satellite, which was built to accomodate maybe 400. Widebody gates at the old DTW were extremely limited, as was the Barry International terminal...

There was once a proposal in the early 1990s to built a permanent regional concourse (G was always temp.) and build a new 10-12 gate international terminal where G was... they also talked about the WorldGateway then... since DTW hampered NW's international expansion in the late 1990s, and focus was on 'what will become when we have our new terminal,' one wonders if they'd be a larger international player had they went with the new international terminal...
 
redtailmsp
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:05 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:42 am

Yes, they came out of the factory partially ETOPS equipped, but NWA bought them minus some mandatory equipment for ETOPS. This includes life-rafts as well as dual-hf radios and back-up engine-driven generators. To retrofit the fleet, or even a subfleet at this stage would be prohibitively expensive. They probably bought them like this to save money up-front. They did the same with the -300's because they said they would never do ETOPS with them. So a few months after they take delivery, Marketing decide that yes indeed, they really will do ETOPS with them. So guess, what, NWA now has to retrofit the -300s and get them certified at great expense. Boeing must love NWA, because they must be charging a real premium for this.
 
NWAFA
Posts: 1843
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 10:30 pm

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:43 am

Why does that not surprise me RedTail...Mgmnt can only see "today and tomorrow" and not next month!
THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
 
BillElliott9
Posts: 237
Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 8:10 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:58 am

NWAFA: Your still drawing a paycheck aren't you?
You can fight without ever winning but never really win without a fight.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23347
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 10:33 am

NW used to operate (quite profitable I may add) BOS-GLA using DC-10s. The route was withdrawn because the DC-10 was required to operate the more lucaritive Japanese markets.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
NWFltAttendant
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2003 4:41 pm

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 8:18 pm

On the ETOPS subject. Would they be able to do that... especially since theyre doing oceanic flying with the 757 our of NRT ?.. It would bea one time cost to make those aircraft ETOP qualified.
Go yakkin !!!!!!
 
jfazzer
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2001 4:02 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:49 pm

Thank you, everyone concerned with this post some excellent info from everyone.


I am surprised that Air India haven't looked at MAN though as I am sure that it would be a highly lucrative routing.
 
LHR001
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:56 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:55 am

Los Angeles to Manchester WILL NOT happen on United Airlines. United Airlines is more than happy with BMI and its daily connection possibilitys via Washington and Chicago. United is now focused on lucrative markets and in saying so...

Manchester is not excatly a high yielding market for business. Most of the traffic into and out of Manchester is leisure, and or ethnic. Many of the passengers that can be found on services from the USA to Manchester are Middle Eastern, Hindi, Pakistani or Biritsh ex-pats and their coninciding American counterparts.

American Airlines is an extreme long shot in the Los Angeles to Manchester market. If the route is opened up at best it would be a seasonal service that would operate using the 767-300! At present American is very happy with the code sharing agreement with Aer Lingus from LAX to Ireland with a quick connection into Manchester!

Northwest Airlines to Manchester would seem to be nothing more than an illusion. Northwest Airlines over the years has had very poor route networks between North America direct to the United Kingdom. For example Northwest opted to discontinue Boston and with it Manchester and Glasgow were immediately pulled from the market. Northwest has always had a London network that is the same if not worse than Delta Airlines. Northwest Airlines only operates 2 daily service to London.. One is from Minneapolis and one is from Detroit.... Both on the aging DC-10...Hopefully to be A330 by years end! Theses services at one time were complimented by Boston and the 747 as well. Instead Northwest has come to very heavily rely apon the shoulders of KLM Royal Dutch Airlines and the plethora of flights that can be offered via Amsterdam!


LHR001
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:05 am

Northwest never flew fron Boston to Manchester.
 
Mitchell Gant
Posts: 233
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2000 12:38 am

RE: Northwest To MAN

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:12 am

Pakistan International Airlines plans to start 2x weekly MAN-IAH service this summer, probably with 747-200 Combis to start off with, then maybe 777-200s.