behramjee
Posts: 4367
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:50 am

From : ATWONLINE.COM

Emirates is examining the feasibility of setting up a major hub at Auckland, according to New Zealand and Dubai sources, which would put intense competitive pressure on Qantas and Air New Zealand.

It is looking at services from Auckland to Fiji, Los Angeles/San Francisco and Buenos Aires as part of a major South Pacific expansion that would give it round-the-world capability.

Emirates is expected to be granted a second daily flight between Sydney and Dubai this year and will use its new Australia-New Zealand rights to draw Australian passengers onto its South Pacific network.

Planning also is well advanced for an Oct. start of a new flight from Perth to Auckland or Christchurch that will be part of increased services to western Australia.

The carrier currently flies a daily Dubai-Perth flight. It will increase to 11 times a week from Oct. with a four-times-weekly Dubai-Perth-Auckland or Christchurch service.
 
COTXDFW777AA
Posts: 314
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:36 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:04 pm

Where would passengers at this hub go to? Connect to go on to Dubai? Why not set up a hub at a more centrally located location?

-COTXDFW777AA
Texas- it's like a whole different country!
 
scottysair
Posts: 6442
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 4:07 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:13 pm

Yeah, My guess that would likely make added new hub in AKL and could get expansion into the south pacific ocean flight. It would be very good to go into LAX.
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7573
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:17 pm

LOL...the thought of Auckland with any more Intl. flights is mind boggling. To be honest I'd be surprised if we got anything more than that Perth flight and direct AKL-DXB flights from now. The Market is saturated right now.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:18 pm

mmmm I don't particulalry see AKL as a great choice for a hub.
Unless there is a major refurbishment of AKL airport, the excess flights would cause chaos.
Aside from that, they would have very strong competition from the likes of QF/ANZ/Air Pacific/Aerolineas/Lan Chile etc etc
 
teahan
Posts: 4993
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 1999 11:18 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:22 pm

Such a move would not be particularly unexpected. The potential for an Emirates African hub was mentioned on a number of occasions; an Auckland hub would not be far removed either.

Also an explanation for their fleet ambitions.

Jeremiah


[Edited 2004-02-23 04:27:12]
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
Qantasclub
Posts: 729
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 2:48 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:24 pm

This thread sounds like a joke. Auckland is just not suitable as an airhub. It is at the end of line as far as air traffic goes, the local market is way too small (as evidenced by Air NZ's repeated and unsuccessful attempts to gain more market share elsewhere) and where would the flights connect to? The immediate aread, apart from Australia, consists of Pacific islands and South America is far, with a low concentration of business traffic. It's just the sort of stunt a subsidised carrier like Emirates with emptyless pockets would try.
As for drawing more Australian passengers via Auckland....maybe, but they would have to offer substantially cheaper fares than QF or Air NZ. Air NZ at the moment is dirt cheap to the US, which goes to show how serious they are about defending their already bite-sized market share.
Long Haul is the only way to go
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:09 pm

Hmmmm, sounds kinda ridiculous.

Surely Sydney's a better option. This just sounds stupid.
 
fuffla
Posts: 381
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:41 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:30 pm

Yeah, SYD would be a better hub option. AKL would not be able to fit any more flights into their scheduals could they? SYD has room to expand and Emirates would be a good airline to do it. It would boost their performance levels and give out economy a shove in the right direction, which it does not really need at the moment. OF and NZ have enough competition at the moment anyway, with Pacific and Virgin Blue running up behind them, they have been forced to enter the low cost market themselves.


Go to http://www.chiefcodemonkey.com
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9875
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:52 pm

Emirates is considering MEL-CHC with 3-4 return flights per week. This flight would be done with the A345, so it would be direct from MEL to Dubai. Emirates is also planning on doing direct Dubai to AKL flights also using the A345
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net for all Moderator contact
 
kaitak
Posts: 9031
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:10 pm

Wouldn't it make more sense to build up their hub at DXB before doing something at AKL. After all, given ANZ's recent financial trouble, I really can't see why the NZ govt would want to give them such extensive rights.

With widebody acft of the types EK wants being at a premium, EK really needs to get its priorities right. It's already had to cancel its second daily at BHX, its third daily MAN seems constantly put back and most importantly, when is the DUB flight coming?

It would make far more sense for EK to follow a specific market development plan - as it has been doing, not just allowing itself to be diverted by ideas like this.
 
airbrasil
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:12 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:37 pm

Here is the info:


Emirates looking at setting up hub in Auckland
Dateline: Monday February 23, 2004

Emirates is examining the feasibility of setting up a major hub at Auckland, according to New Zealand and Dubai sources, which would put intense competitive pressure on Qantas and Air New Zealand.

The Dubai-based airline is looking at services from Auckland to Fiji, Los Angeles/San Francisco and Buenos Aires as part of a major South Pacific expansion that would give it round-the-world capability.
Emirates is expected to be granted a second daily flight between Sydney and Dubai this year and will use its new Australia-New Zealand rights to draw Australian passengers onto its South Pacific network. Planning also is well advanced for an Oct. start of a new flight from Perth to Auckland or Christchurch that will be part of increased services to western Australia.

The carrier currently flies a daily Dubai-Perth flight. It will increase to 11 times a week from Oct. with a four-times-weekly Dubai-Perth-Auckland or Christchurch service.--Geoffrey Thomas

 
flyinghighboy
Posts: 722
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:06 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 4:42 pm

well i think AKL would be an alright idea, QF would scream if EK set up a hub in SYD, if EK did offer nice prices and a decent schedule, they go use this for their Australian-LAX services and compete against UA and QF.
With UA you have to go through SYD anyway, with QF there are dialy flights from Melbourne but with EK on their back it would put a bit of pressure on QF to lower their airfares a bit.
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:01 pm

Even to South America QF have had a nice ride with Lan Chile operating their flights. If Emirates taps into the South American market, it could cause a bit of a headache for Lan and AR!!
Emirates have already been recruiting in Argentina, Venezuela and Brasil. They where planning on connecting up Dubai with Buenos Aires either direct or via Brasil.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:13 pm

Sounds to me like their global ambitions and options are being explored.

New Zealand offers a very free market economy, evidenced by our open skies agreements. A couple of well located hubs like DXB, Johannesburg and AKL would give EK a commanding global presence beyond any other carrier. Emirates are looking at how world markets are emerging, not at how they are currently. South America is touted as the new continent for an economic boom and New Zealand (and AKL) provide a pretty impressive link to this market from Australasia.

Auckland's airport plans are well documented in regards to their growth aspirations - second runway, regional/turbo prop runway, new terminals etc - so infrastructural problems are not insurmountable and are being dealt with.

New Zealand is a good place to base a regional hub. We have technical skills in abundance, a stable upward trending economy, stable politics, great tourism, great business (very much part of the greater Australia-New Zealand market) and above all, governments that are not renowned for ranging on open sky agreements.

Don't totally quash the idea yet.

MH
come visit the south pacific
 
behramjee
Posts: 4367
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:40 pm

This is what I think is the way EK is thinking :

1. Theyre going to base a few aircraft at AKL...most likely A 345s and A 343s.

2. They will fly them to Australia-US West Coast and Latin America from AKL nonstop.

3. They do not intend on taking pax from Latin Amer and SFO-LAX via AKL to DXB...no their main focus is on taking a chunk of the lucurative USA-AUST route which QF dominates with ANZ...QF has been well known to exploit its dominant position in this market segment so EK may want to curtail that!!!

4. EK will take pax from USA via AKL to all the major Aussie cities such as SYD-MEL-PER and BNE and the same applies to Latin American pax flying to Australia.

Doesnt this remind you of the way PAN AM use to operate in the 70s and 80s by basing 727s and 747s here and there around the world !!!

 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:11 pm

EK setting up a hub in AKL is not a surprise at all, QF and EK have been talking to airport management about a new international terminal at AKL for sometime now.

EK has also made it clear to AKL airport they are wanting to fly the A380 to AKL in the near future so future terminal developments would be necessary

-
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7573
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:29 pm

that second runway as all the 'new' plans show is a pipe dream and won't happen in that form at least. Last plan I saw favoured the cross runway formation. That would be better than having such a short runway running parallel. I'm sorry but short of AIAL flattening the current Intl. airport and rebuilding it will never manage to cope effectively with what Emirates have planned even if by some fluke Whenuapai did go ahead as a domestic/regional.
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:52 pm

From what I understand, AKL's second runway is due to begin in 2006. It will be a parallel runway, shortened from the original plans and will thus most likely be confined to domestic flights. This would suggest that newer domestic terminals will have to be built north of the current international terminal.

I believe all objections to these plans have now been dealt with.

Meanwhile, this Emirates story is starting to sound more and more ridiculous. Take Australian pax from East Coast Oz cities, via AKL to the US? Meaning, if their final destination was anywhere other than LA, their flight would entail at least 2 stops. Unless EK offered considerably lower prices, and to date they have not on the Tasman, QF would respond accordingly and absolutely swamp this.

AKL-South America? HA! you're kidding right? Not only is this market notoriously low yielding, but almost the entire continent of South America is an absolute basket case at the moment (Chile aside). Argentina is still crippled from recent economic and political meltdowns (was it 4 presidents in 3 weeks? Or the other way around?), Brazil is an absolute mess, and the northern countries are busy fighting pseudo-civil wars.

South America has been "tipped" to be an economic goldmine for decades. Instead, it's become an absolute basketcase. Thje demand for travel isn't there. The demand for business isn't there. The logic of this is seriously warped. "Create an international network based on startegic hubs" - eh? "Like Pan Am" - whazza?! Pan Am went bust people, big time. Emirates has no alliance network behind it, and is desperately trying to become completely dominant in aviation and the sectors it serves so that within a few years time, when its massive (and growing) fleet comes up for maintenance/replacement, it has the leverage to deal with it affordably. EK has a very small window of opportunity to do this. If it fails, I see dark clouds ahead. And I don't see AKL as being a 'strategic hub'.

 
User avatar
BNE
Posts: 2922
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2000 9:37 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:36 pm

Emirates making AKL are hub, are they kidding. I am surprised that they are flying 3 large planes, 777s and A340 between AKL-BNE/SYD/MEL; I just can't see how they would be making a profit. Now they want to add more service. AKL-LAX might be feasible, but AKL-South America, Emirates are kidding themselves.

I thing in Emirates favour is that they have better times for travelling across the Tasman especially coming from Brisbane, Qantas run 1 plane a day between BNE-AKL which leaves around Midday, connecting to LAX, while the return flight from Auckland leaves at 7;30am, meaning you have too get up at 4;30am(1;30am Brisbane time)to get to the airport. Totally stuffs me for a few days due to the time difference. Qantas seem so worried about getting enough profit from each flight, that Emirates seem happy to grow the market.

Too me, Auckland Airport has a messy layout, with International, Qantas and Air NZ each being in a separate buildings. If they do want to add a 2nd runway, remove the domestic buildings and link them to the International buildings on the northern side.

When they built the international terminal why did they have Arrivals and Departures on the same floor. They could do worse than knock it all down and start again.  Big grin





Why fly non stop when you can connect
 
qantas747
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2000 12:51 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:30 pm

Here's a thought, maybe starting direct flights from SYD/MEL to either Rio, Sao Paulo or Santiago, their A345's would surely be able to make the range. thrice-weekly could do I I suppose. I figure QF would probably start Brazil flights if the ever got a 7E7 with enough range.........

But AKL as a hub? I agree that it is saturated. One of the airlines out of the major 4 will have to go. And my thinking is that it will be Pacific Blue Or Emirate, because QF are able to give dirt cheap fares and handle the business well, same with Air NZ ( to a lesser extent) but the Kiwi's would never not support their natiuonal airline... would they? Emirates may pull out, but I think they are just using up aircraft stand time, to get more out of their aircraft. The only one left is Pacific Blue. I just get that funny feeling they won;t be on the circuit for too long with some of the fares I have seen by QF ( last I saw it was about $280 RETURN from SYD to WLG and CHC. 4 airlines is way to big for trans-tasman.. Think of TT as Ozzie domestic, neither could support 4 full airlines... it is becoming very unreasonable..
 
767er
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:10 am

I agree, AKL is almost at saturation point. Has anyone been there in the afternoon when it is straining at the seams with every gate being utilised and loads of a/c on remote stands??????

Mmmmhhhh me thinks Pacific Blue won't last the distance either. Way too much excess capacity. NZ appears to be enjoying healthy loads ex AKL & WLG to Australia these days.
Aircraft flown:F27,Viscount. EMB120, SAAB340, ATR70, 737-200.737-300,DC8, DC10,747-100,747-200,747-300,747-400, A320, A3
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:04 am

Aerokiwi just to educate you:

The Economic condition of places like Argentina and Brasil have changed since the demise of most countries at the end of 2001. Yes a WHOLE 3 years ago!
Coutries like Aargentina, Brasil and even Chile have had to pay a heafty price for policies implemented by the IMF(but that is another issue).

Argentina ;
The Economy grew a whopping 8.3% in 2003 compared to -10.9% in 2002 so as you can see why people still refer to South America as "the next boom".
Brasil
The economy may have shrunk to 2% in 2001-2003.But it is still the largest economy in Latin Aamerica (maybe behind Mexico)
Chile
Has a GDP of 2.1%, and one of the most stable Goverments in South America.

So where does the "Chile aside" comment come from. All that Chile has is a free trade agreement with the US and a stable Goverment

If there is no demand for people to travel there, then why was there not a single seat available to travel between SYD-EZE/SCL with either Lan or AR from December of last year till around the end of this month? Even with AUD$2500 for a return ticket to South America, planes are still going back and forth full.
Take a good look next time you are in the streets of AKL and you will find a big Brasilian community.

Please don't take this info as a personal attack, i simply wanted to point some things out.

I do agree though with you that the logistics for EK to set up a hub in AKL is 'ridiculous'. Although with the ability that EK has to 'print money' I am sure that any new venture will not harm their bottom line.





 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:20 am

TBIT - just checked our records for AR and LA's loads to South America ex New Zealand and Australia. As I'm fairly busy I only had time to check 2 dates for each.

AR - on January 18th they had 81 pax, on January 11th they had 87.

LA had over 40 empty seats on one date in January I checked and 20 empty on the other.

Perhaps time to get a new travel agent?!
-
 
brutie
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:28 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:06 am

Very interesting (and surprising!) topic. I'd love to know what NZ (airline and country) is getting in return for giving EK a free run!

Following is a link to a story in today's NZ Herald - it answers some of the questions raised re runways, stands etc.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?thesection=news&thesubsection=&storyID=3550870
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 10:19 am

TBCITDG:

Perhaps you should look at your figures again. It's not hard to grow in double digit growth right after your economy has shrunk 10-20% in a year! Growing 10% the following year does not mean everything's back to how it was, because the gorwth is being measured from a reduced base level. After the currency crises of 1997/8 in Asia and Brazil, the foreign debt holdings in Latin American nations like Brazil became untenable, and their economies have contracted accordingly.

Meanwhile, Argentina's pegging to the US currency has resulted in what can mildly be described as a cataclysmic. What was once the most developed country of the South American region has become a basket case like the rest of them.

South American economies are debt-laden, economic black holes, riddled with corruption at the highest levels. And by corruption I mean practices which may be the norm in these countries and part of their social framework, but which are considered abhorrent in the OECD nations.

I wish it wasn't like this, but it is. That is why there is no business traffic between Australasia and South America. And that is why additional airline services just aren't feasible. Just look at the figures above for Lan Chile. Hardly inspiring.
 
aussie747
Posts: 1005
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:15 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:37 pm

Ridiculous as this sounds the most telling tale is where does Emirates expect to gain approval to operate to LAX, Fiji etc. some market routes are already overserviced, and / or difficult to gain approval. Emirates is just getting too big for it's boots, why doesn'y it concentrate on North / South America a market it is yet to serve.

 
flyinghighboy
Posts: 722
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2001 8:06 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:18 pm

i don't see anything wrong with EK expanding in diffrent markets, EK has really put the heat on some of the other carriers to shape up. I doubt they'll ever get rights to fly direct from Australia to the US, SQ is having enough trouble with that right now but if they were to start AKL-LAX, they most certainly would have this daily and have it timed with their MEL/SYD/BNE flights arriving into AKL. How much more can AKL take?
 
AirAotearoa
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:37 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:21 pm

Has anybody thought of the scenario that EK might take a mighty chunk of NZ. They then have a hub in AKL (not to mention CHC as well on a lesser scale), a loyal population base and landing rights between NZ and just about anywhere they want. They are already saying that they don't have enough aircraft to keep up with demand so buying into another airline like NZ gives them the aircraft they need to fulfill their immediate plans in the South Pacific. Entry into Star Alliance and the deals done. If you think about it, it's not a silly theory. The New Zealand government is a reluctant shareholder that may be all too willing to part with an asset they didn't necessarily want but were forced to bail out in 2001. Could this be the reason why Qantas are still so keen on getting into bed with NZ - they may have already predicted this as a possibility. NZ have been quiet on this issue for a couple of months now. If it became reality, QF would have something serious to worry about.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:36 pm

BNE you should know that emirates are now the number one carrier between BNE and AKL! Thats right, the new kid on the block is kicking everybodys butt in a big way. I had a friend last week take the flight, and he told me every seat was full, and he spoke to the flight attendents and it had been consistantly like that all the time lately. So, even at the cheapest price they are charging which is about $411, they are well and truely making profits with loads like that! Well done emirates!
 
AVANTI
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:01 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:43 pm

It's just the sort of stunt a subsidised carrier like Emirates with emptyless pockets would try.

Hmmm... EK's critics often claim that it is a 'subidised' operation but I've never seen any evidence to prove it. If anything, they are quite transparent about the financing of each batch of aircraft (especially the more recent orders) they order.

And what does "emptyless pockets" mean? Dubai is not a rich city state. They don't have hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars to throw away.

I am not sure about the accuracy of EK's annual financial statements, but I would give them the benefit of the doubt. I flew with them soon after their inaugural flight in the mid eighties and since then they have accomplished a great deal against the predictions of lots of naysayers.

They may be making a mistake with this new hub strategy of theirs, but then again, maybe their thinking is strategically sound over the long term and one day we'll all understand their strategy.

So far, EK's track record is nothing to laugh at or call silly names.
 
Lufthansa
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:04 am

hey QFclub...... give em a go, they not as evil as u think

AVOID THE PAPARAZZI - FLY EMIRATES
 
toltommy
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:16 am

DXB sounded like a bad place for a hub at one time as well....

Air NZ is weak, QF is not. They'd have a much harder time taking biz away from QF. Hence an AKL focus city, rather than SYD.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:54 am

TOLtommy

Air NZ is weak, QF is not. They'd have a much harder time taking biz away from QF.


What gives you this impression? Are you confusing size with strength? Is it part of that "might is right" mentality that Republican America has become very good at (apologies to free thinking Americans)?

QF and NZ are national carriers serving their countries and regions very successfully. Both airlines have been posting profits when seeing red is an international airline predilection - and NZ in spite of its massive loss with the AN débacle.

The majority of travellers on NZ are New Zealanders. Given comparable airfares, ammenities and service, I know which airline I'd continue to choose.

MH
come visit the south pacific
 
toltommy
Posts: 2519
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:12 am

Actually Motorhussy, I was comparing the government bailout of Air NZ, versus the free market strength of QF. Don't confuse being propped up by the NZ taxpayers with the true operating profit that QF posts. If Air NZ were burdened with having to pay back the government dole, they'd be lucky to turn a profit. Your national carrier has it's strengths, I grant you that. However, the "near socialist" government of Ms. Clark feels that it is in their interest to protect the government jobs that Air NZ currently offers. The free market hasn't truly been able to offer Kiwi travellers a true choice.

As you put it, "Given comparable airfares, amenities and service, I know which airline I'd continue to choose." So do I.
 
brutie
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:28 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:33 am

TOLtommy,

I'd like to take issue with a few things in your last post:

1) Claiming that QF operates in a "free market" is a bit of a joke - NZ operates in a far more deregulated environment.

2) NZ was bailed out to protect the tourism industry here, which is enormously important to us. I'm not sure what government jobs you're referring to.

3) NZ operated very successfully for many years and is operating profitably again now. Its problems were caused solely by its disastrous decision to purchase Ansett, because of the Australian government reneging on an open-skies agreement between the 2 countries (which harks back to my point 1).
Whether or not it will continue to operate profitably long-term is up for debate.

4) We'll probably never know but I'd be amazed that if Qantas ever found itself in a similar position the Aussie government wouldn't bail them out in a similar fashion, given that they're just as important to Oz as NZ is to us.
 
Jet-lagged
Posts: 819
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:58 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:25 pm

Emerites is very agressive. I wonder if they won't end up like Brannif. Over-extended and in financial troubles.
 
toBEYwithMEA
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:22 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Thu Feb 26, 2004 12:57 am


God, This airline won't stop. Do they have any concern for money,
But what the hey, It'll be cool to see them around Auckland
MEA FLYING HIGH AND RETURING TO IT FORMER GLORY!
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4995
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:54 pm

This is not surprising at all, we are after all talking about Emirates!

AKL is in at least as good a spot as SYD really for mine! I mean EK wouldn't get SYD-LAX non-stop anyway I doubt due to QF and the Australian goverment. It's only about 3 hours longer to stop in AKL anyway and they have connections from MEL and BNE anyway.

South America is the same they almost overfly NZ anyway from Australia to South America so why not stop and pick up NZ pax, I can't see that much of a market though for EK from NZ to South America but we'll see.
 
VH-BZF
Posts: 740
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:28 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:09 pm

I gather from a recent business trip I made to AKL, it currently struggles around early afternoon to cope with so many flights!

I have a friend who works for Menzies ground handling in Melbourne (yep, they handle EK's flights in Mel, Syd & Akl) & she told me that on the daily MEL-AKL flights, their B777's average between 80 to 120 pax, compared to Qantas who fly a smaller B767-300, which constantly carry loads of 236 pax, morning & night!

She stated that the QF flights do conx with Lan Chile & Aerolineas Argentinas flights, as well as their own Akl-Lax service, whereas the EK flights don't have any specified conx flights currently beyond AKL. She also stated (as posted above) that EK start their second Melbourne service in June & it will probably go onto to CHC on some of the services, how many is TBA!

Cheers - BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 4995
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:25 am

AKL is starting to expand now with more new layovers and eventually a new pier, which should help them cope a little better at peak times!

I have a friend who works for Menzies ground handling in Melbourne (yep, they handle EK's flights in Mel, Syd & Akl) & she told me that on the daily MEL-AKL flights, their B777's average between 80 to 120 pax, compared to Qantas who fly a smaller B767-300, which constantly carry loads of 236 pax, morning & night!

That sounds about right VH-BZF!

I believe EK do alot better on their SYD and BNE-AKL flights load wise.
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:38 am

EK's loads on the SYD-AKL are usually in the low 100s. They don't have a good yield from what I hear.

BNE-AKL flights are doing better than MEL and SYD - but BNE yields are always low.

EK's true motivation for being here is obviously not for the profits, but part of their overall strategy to take over the aviation world and crush all local airlines into submission.
-
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:52 am

ummm.... above all,this seem just a joke...."TAKE OVER THE AVIATION WORLD"???
Anyway...EK is the last one in to arrive.Let's wait and see.Don't be scared,TG992  Big grin
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
BA
Posts: 10166
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Sat Feb 28, 2004 9:53 am

Anyone know how EK's loads are on DXB-SYD?

I'm sure they are high, but I am pretty sure yields are low. I hear Lebanese fill the flight because of the large Lebanese population in Sydney.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
TG992
Posts: 2310
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2001 12:03 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:02 pm

Anxeble - I'm deadly serious.

National airlines in countries that have full freedom for foreign carriers (such as New Zealand, for example) now have to compete against a carrier that seems to be able to offer unsustainable fares and frequencies. How do they do it? I have some theories but I'm not going to speculate on here!
-
 
brutie
Posts: 107
Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:28 am

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:08 pm

Quite right TG992. Why the hell do we give full freedom? Seems like the equivalent of walking round with a "Kick Me" sign on our back!
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7573
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: Emirates Wants To Make Auckland A Hub

Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:18 pm

It'll work the same has Flight Centre runs it I suspect. They apparently have huge term deposits & various slush funds that gains interest like you wouldn't believe, and when they have to undercut they just draw cash from that without losing too much cash at all. And its not like the UAE is low on money or investors anyway. I don't think EK is set on global domination exactly, they just want to stamp their name all over the world, and maybe buy out a few airlines along the way.  Big thumbs up lol
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos