anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:10 pm

Why do AF buy the B777-300?
Really do they a new plane into his fleet?With a great fleet for long-haul flights (A-330/340,B-747/772) and being a next customer of A-380...is there need for a new type in AF's fleet?I can't understand it.
If so...why didn't choose A340-600?
BTW...How many US-carriers have "wides" Airbus with the exception of US Airways?
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
thaigold
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:22 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:16 pm

BTW...How many US-carriers have "wides" Airbus with the exception of US Airways?

NW's got a few 330's and will probably get quite a few more widebody from Airbus when they eventually start to retire 747's...
Dunbar Rovers forever
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:17 pm

American and Northwest spring to mind.

AA: A300
NW: A330

old Pan Am: A310s

and then those were transferred to DL who are no longer flying them.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:18 pm

NW also flies the A330, AA flies the A300 and Hooters Air recently ordered the A340-600.
AF refuses to go all-Airbus or all-Boeing, preferring not to put their eggs in the same basket.
This way thet have a negotiating edge when purchasing new aircraft, also, if a problem arises with either one of the manufacturers and aircraft are grounder, they are less affected than if they were running an all-A or B fleet.

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:22 pm

BTW...How many US-carriers have "wides" Airbus with the exception of US Airways?

American has A300-600s for caribbean routes
Northwest has A330-300s, and will be getting -200s soon.

I'm not entirely sure why AF decided to go with the 777-300ER, but I think it has something to do with replacing their 744s, which are getting kind of old. I guess the plan is to reduce capacity on some 744 routes with the 773ER, and increase capacity on others with the 380. As for why it wasn't the 346, I think it was mostly because they were happy with how their 772s were doing. It also might have had something to do with the 346s being powered solely by Rolls-Royce. AF has always had something for GE.

They are adding a new type, but at least it can be flown by the 772 pilots, and maintenance will probably be close to the 772s. It's not like before when AF had the 742,744,310,767 and 340, with each having its own pilot group and maintenance. Now they'll have the 332, 343, 772,773, 744 and 380. That's four pilot groups, but it'll go down to three when the 744s are gone.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:30 pm

Sorry!
My 2º question is...Really do they NEED a new plane into his fleet?I think,the right answer is not at all.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
Paddy
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 12:03 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:33 pm

Hooters Air recently ordered the A340-600.

 Wow!


 
UTA_flyinghigh
Posts: 6304
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2001 8:46 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:35 pm

The 773 is replacing the 747 Classics in AF's fleet, not the 744's.
BTW, took 2 posts to notice the Hooters Air thingy  Smile

UTA
Fly to live, live to fly - Air France/KLM Flying Blue Platinum, BMI Diamond Club Gold, Emirates Skywards
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:42 pm

UTA:
Yes,I know AA flies A300 (I did a journey SDQ-MIA ten years ago) But, my question is nowdays, not in 1990.Your are right....I've forgotten to mention NW.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
hoons90
Posts: 3134
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:43 pm

Could it be also because of engine commonality? AF mostly uses GE engines, and the A346 is RR.. Maybe AF wants engine commonality with it's existing 772ERs ?
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:49 pm

Only RR for the A-346? and what about CFM??
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
hoons90
Posts: 3134
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:00 pm

Only available engines for the A340-500 and 600 are Rolls Royce Trent 500s.
CFM-56 engines are on A340-200 and 300.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4343
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:16 pm

When did Hooters Air order the A 340-600???
 
ND
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:27 pm

My reaction is just the same as everybody else's about the Hooters A346... my jaw dropped...

How will the F/A's dress?
ND - Hated By Many, Confronted By None
 
DeltaMD11
Posts: 1678
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 4:56 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:33 pm

ND,
I'd prefer if the Hooters' gals didn't even bother to dress. In a world where everything is about cost savings/effectiveness, all Hooters would have to do is set them up with some tassles and they're all set Big grin

In response to the question of the poster---the 772 has been a huge success for AF. With the 773ER, they're going to have that same great aircraft that the 772 is, except it's going to be able to carry more people and cargo---and go further. As a few people mentioned above, I think that the engine choices had a lot to do with this. Why add another engine type to the fleet which will be an oddball when they can stick with the GE's? You still have parts/crew commonality on the 773 as you do the 772. I don't think the question should be about WHY they added them to the fleet, I think that should be WHY NOT?

Just my $.02
Too often we ... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought. - John Fitzgerald Kennedy
 
warren747sp
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:51 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:58 pm

they put the 777-200 on premium routes and the A340 on secondary routes.
most premium passengers prefer the former anyway?
747SP
 
Guest

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:09 pm

Warren, could you please explain what you mean? lol
 
SafetyDude
Posts: 3654
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2001 10:02 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:13 pm

I'm more curious why they have both the 777 and 340...perhaps they are trying to solve Airbus v. Boeing once and for all? (No side taken.)

 Smile
-Will
"She Flew For What We Stand For"
 
warren747sp
Posts: 981
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 7:51 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 10:21 pm

AF flies 777 CDG to JFK and A340 CDG to EWR. Given to chocie I would suspect most busienss traveler would take the 777 becasue it gets to your destination faster in a wider plane.
777 used on high yield premium routs and A340 used on thin routes which is a commom strategy.
747SP
 
lalone
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:49 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:15 pm

AF is very well managed, and its fleet purchase decicisons are made on technical aspects and not political. Unlike IB they have decided to purchase the best product depending on their needs, so they will stick to Airbus for the short/ medium range (A320 family). On the long haul they have decided to buy from both mnf (wise decision). The A340 was mainly a political compromise (they had to buy something from Airbus) but they clearly favour the 777 on heavy routes, as well as the 7474. Now they are adding A330. Here´s a link for you guys with an excellent coment on AF fleet. www.airtransportbiz.com. I am sorry Anxebla the 777 is outselling the A340....don´t ever ride in a 777, you won´t find the french plastic that you like so much
 
User avatar
RayChuang
Posts: 8007
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2000 7:43 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:19 am

I think there were two reasons why AF bought the 777-200ER first and now the 777-300ER: 1) they offered more space for premium class seating and 2) the planes used GE90 engines, which are 50% assembled by SNECMA (France's primary jet engine company). Indeed, that's the reason why AF's A380-800's will be powered by Engine Alliance GP7270 engines.  Smile
 
BWIA 772
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sun May 12, 2002 2:33 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:41 am

even the french realise the 777 is the better aircraft

Yes about the hooters thing where will they fly with teh 346??
Eagles Soar!
 
767-332ER
Posts: 1974
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2001 1:20 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:50 am


Hooters Air will fly their A340-600's from ATL-Myrtle Beach...hehe

Anyways, about IB buying from both manufacturers, well...Airbus seems to be the only manufacturer they are purchasing a/c from and that's all folks.

Regards
Twinjets...if one fails, work the other one twice as hard!!!
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15323
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:52 am

Hooters and the 346????

Can you all say gullible????
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5184
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:22 am

AF bought the 777-300ER because it's the best plane for its network !!! And AF is already very very happy with the B772ER.

The B773ER will replace the B744, while the B744 will replace the remaining B742 & B743.

The B744, A343, A332 are now being reconfigured in a 2 class layout only : Business and Economy, while the B772ER and B773ER will remain configured with 3 Classes First/Business/Economy. AF is currently operating 25 B772ER and will operate 16 B773ER, this plane family becoming AF's workhorse, on its "Golden routes".

AF is currently operating 22 A343 and 13 A332.

In a medium term, AF plans to get rid of its A343 and order more A332 & B772ER to to operate a long-haul fleet of : A380 / A332 & B744 / B772ER / B773ER


PS : The A380 will also be configured with First/Business/Economy.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:18 pm

AF loves their 777-200ERs while the A343s were a political compromise, not that they were bad for AF as AF found a great balance between aircraft selection on routes.

Now, AF has their 777s configued for high yielding routes as the 777s have more premium seating and can haul more cargo.

Also, many people think the A380s coming will mean that the 744 is leaving the fleet. I couldn't disagree with that more (with all airlines, not just AF). The A380 will augment and/or replace the 747 on super high capacity routes but the 744 will still have a niche that the A380 and 773ER/A346 can't replicate. Which is exactly why I expect Boeing to build an updated 747.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
airxliban
Posts: 4285
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 12:14 pm

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Tue Feb 24, 2004 6:51 pm

personally i am a little bit sad that the 773ER will be replacing the 744.

Not from a technical standpoint, the 773ER of course has the merit but there is just somethin majestic about the 747-400 that no other aircraft has, at least in my eyes.

It is like comparing a Lexus GX 470 to a current generation Cadillac Escalade, black with chrome 23" rims, grille, exhaust, 3" lift kit, multiple LCDs and tinted windows.

Of course the GX470 is a smooth ride and technologically speaking very advanced. however there is no denying the appeal of the more low-tech yet much more pimp caddy.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Air France And A340-600.Why Not?

Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:42 pm

I don't think AFs 747s are going anywhere anyime soon.....
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"