shlomoz
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 9:36 pm

Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:43 pm

Very often I see commerical aircraft flying in Israeli airspace, way east of TLV environs, seemingly on their way to Jordan, flying eastbound about 30km north of Jerusalem. There are quite a few every day and they seem to include 747's (or A340's?) and 767's and 777's.

For example, yesterday (Monday) I saw a 747 at 13:30 GMT.

Any insights? Are these all bound for Jordan? Are they headed elsewhere? Where can I get info on these flights (to figure out what they are)?

Thanks
 
voodoo
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:14 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:50 pm

El Al training flights? IDF 707s? USAF aircraft to, as you say, Jordan?
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
Kempa
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:22 pm

Can't aircraft from countries that have diplomatic relations with Israel fly over Israeli airspace? Let's say, Air France flying to some place in South Asia could overfly Israel, then Jordan, and on. Even if it was flying to Saudi Arabia, couldn't it overfly Israel?
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:45 pm

Kempa, that's a good question. I dont think though that there are any instances like your example.
AirFrance enroute to Asia flies North of Israel, as do all the other European Airlines. Those flights are most probably for Jordan or EL AL flights that departed TLV for the Far east and Africa. They depart TLV toward Jerusalem, then south to dead sea - eilat - red sea - sharm.
 
avi
Posts: 887
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:57 am

As said, it can be only an aircraft from TLV or Jordanian aircraft on its way to Jordan. Nothing else. Foreign airlines don’t fly to Jordan, not to mention ant other destination, over Israel even if they fly to Israel (like AF).

Long live the B747
 
AMS
Posts: 1620
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:44 am

AVI,

KL,AF is having service to AMM.
 
avi
Posts: 887
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:18 am

Ams:
AVI,
KL,AF is having service to AMM.


I know, but they don't fly over Israel on their way to AMM.
Long live the B747
 
RonE
Posts: 324
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 12:31 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Wed Feb 25, 2004 4:35 am

Maybe some South East Asian carrier flying to a central/southern European destination: eg flights between Rome and Singapore.
 
avi
Posts: 887
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2001 1:27 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:03 am

No way.
Israel has no way to control the security checks on these flights and for security reasons there are no flights of foreign companies over Israel except the Jordanian company.
Still, if we put the security problems aside, I don’t think Israel is under any important route from the Far East to Europe.

I’m sure that in the Middle East reality, Israeli security personals will be very happy if Jordanian flights don’t fly over Israel, but this has enormous political effect, so Israel let these flights to continue and everybody hope that everything will be ok.
However, Israel demanded from the Jordanian authorities to put arm security guards on these flights and they did.

Long live the B747
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:47 am

They are propably heading for the Persian Gulf, Iran, Pakistan or the likes, I have never heard any ban of schedueled airlines, be it Saudi Arabian, Emirates, Iran or Syrian...

They can fly over selected routes if they file and comply with ATC, like anywhere else in the world...

I remember I saw 3 Jordanian Air Force helicopters flying over Israel...So there is a lot of air traffic and of every kind...

Boaz...
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
amirs
Posts: 1184
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:20 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:56 am

WINDSHEAR:
"They can fly over selected routes if they file and comply with ATC, like anywhere else in the world"??????!!!!!??????
NO WAY!!!!
Most definetly not .... Saudi Arabian, Emirates, Iranian or Syrian a/c or heading to these countries cannot fly over Israel. It is not allowed by the Israeli authorities and not allowed by the authorities of the Arab states.
Jordanian as mentioned by Avi are the only ones. They too only after permission.
 
shlomoz
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2000 9:36 pm

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:12 am

So, Amir, Avi: bottom line is that any commercial plane flying overhead here in "Eastern Mateh Binyamin" is Jordanian?
 
EL-AL
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 8:29 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Sun Feb 29, 2004 5:52 am

While i was wacthing in Tzrifin I saw Royal Jordanian A340-200 flying right over Ben Gurion in something like 10.000-15.000 feet.

EL-AL
every day is a good day to fly
 
flyboy36y
Posts: 2897
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2000 1:45 pm

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:13 am

You could be seeing israeli domistic flights.... no?
 
voodoo
Posts: 1959
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:14 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Sun Feb 29, 2004 7:30 am

Hmmm now I recall visiting Jerusalem and seeing some sort of MD-80/90 flying directly overhead from the southeast (i.e. south of Amman but from say mid-Dead Sea) making contrails at altitude and thinking....huh?
My only guess (this was 1999) was Austrian MD-80 coming from Dubai or somesuch.
` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
 
coa764
Posts: 309
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2004 1:32 am

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:33 am

You can overfly a country as long as you get and overfly permit. An airline has to request one from the country's government and if approved, would be paying a nice fee to the country in question. You may have seen a charter flight running troops back and forth to Kuwait. Charters are also overlying Iraq airspace now to cut down on the time and fuel it take to route around it. The Ironic thing is that at altitude that airspace is one of the safest in the world.
Please oh please Mr Moderator Nazi, dont delete my thread.
 
LY744
Posts: 5185
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 11:55 pm

RE: Non-TLV Commercial Aircraft In Israeli Airspace

Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:34 pm

There are plenty of USAF heavies out there, a lot of them stop over at Nevatim AFB.


LY744.
Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it

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