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American 767
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If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:08 am

I would love that. I know it's very unlikely but it's not impossible, the probability that American ever orders from Airbus again is tiny but not zero. We all know that American's only Airbus product in its 70 year history is the A300-600, but if they ever add a new Airbus which do you think it could be? I think it could be the A340-500, not the 600, because it's a very long haul aircraft medium sized capacity wise. American would need such an aircraft if they add new routes in the Pacific Ocean or if they add a nonstop flight from MIA to CPT like SAA used to have.
American has 777ER's in its long haul sector but, unlike most poeple here may think, they could choose the A340-500 over the 777-300ER for three reasons:
-no ETOPS restrictions
-the 777-300ER is offered with only GE engines and the A340-500 is offered with RR engines which power the 777 at American.
-a 2-4-2 seat layout better than a 2-5-2 seat layout, no seat is more than one seat away from an aisle. It's not fun to have a middle seat in a set of 5 seats on a long flight.
Then the choice is, either choose the Boeing and keep airframe commonality but not engine commonality or vice versa, choose the Airbus and keep the engine commonality but no airframe commonality. American doesn't seem to be interested in the 777-300ER and they don't need to add a new "queen of the sky" right now, but if they ever go shopping for a new "flagship" long haul, then Airbus may negociate a good deal with American. Wouldn't the A340-500 in American Airlines colours look great? And do you think they would be wholly painted in gray like the A300's were? That I don't think so because the A300's are wearing a bare metal scheme like all other aircrafts.

Folks, this post is not a Boeing versus Airbus war. It's just a thought that I have in mind now. I said in another post that if American adds a new type it would be the 7E7, but I would not exclude the A340-500.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano
 
VSlover
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:15 am

why are there no ETOPS restrictions on the A345?

Thanks!
 
propjock04
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:17 am

VSLover,

Because it has more than two engines.
 
warren747sp
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:17 am

I think the A340-500 maybe to small in load for their transpacific flights.
I believe the A300 maybe inherited from a carrier they purchased many years ago?
747SP
 
Spaceman
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:18 am

How about ordering some 777LR first.
 
texan
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:21 am

Warren: AA actually bought the planes from Airbus, but received a special deal as they were the North American launch customer for the series, or some deal like that. It was an attempt by Airbus to have AA purchase more aircraft from them, but AA ended up sticking with Boeing and MD for the most part. They do provide terrific cargo capacity, though, which is a major reason for their use on the Caribbean routes.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
VSlover
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:29 am

Propjock04-

Ha. For some reason, I thought it applied to all jets. My bad.

Thanks!
 
Thrust
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:31 am

AA is Boeing-loyal. I suspect that AA will continue to be that way for a long time. But if Airbus presents to them an aircraft that seems to extend Boeing's ability to reach their needs, I am sure AA will chose the Airbus aircraft. If they didn't, that would simply be poor business management. Putting myself in the shoes of AA's owner, though certainly angry with them for the Airbus accident (just because he was), I would not bypass the better product, Airbus, Boeing, or whoever. Believe me, it may last awhile, but if Airbus is able to suit AA the best, I would put aside my own hate for Airbus in order to keep my airline up and running as efficiently as possible. Need I say more?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
AA787
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:36 am

Amen to Thrust for the most part.

AA thinks first- Boeing, Boeing, Boeing
THEN-Commonality,Commonality,Commonality

They both point against Airbus,

AA787
ET In NYC
 
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solnabo
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:41 am

Isnt DL the only major UScarrier that doesnt have any Airbus in their fleet??
Anyone else? Major UScarrier....

Hejdå  Big thumbs up

Michael//SE
www.moveon.org
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
scottysair
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:43 am

Is that AA still thinking about buy with new planes by Boeing or Airbus? Either way that can be choose with those new airplanes of Airbus or Boeing. Exactly I am not sure which one of them.
 
Guest

RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:44 am

"Isnt DL the only major UScarrier that doesnt have any Airbus in their fleet??"

AS doesn't.
WN doesn't
CO doesn't

 
propjock04
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:46 am

Solnabo,

Both Continental and Southwest (obviously) don't have any airbus planes in their fleets.
 
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STT757
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:53 am

I think the reaction from Airbus after AA flight #587 crash has solidified the fact that AA is not buying Airbus, Airbus blamed AA's Maintenance practices, and pilot training for the accident.

Playing the blame game with the World's Largest Airline is not the best way to win orders, AA will order Boeing.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Flyinround731
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 9:58 am

Continental did have some Airbus A300s in their fleets in the late 80's and early 90's, I remember seeing them fly over Beltway 8 after departing 15L (now 14L) at IAH and making that turn when I was a little boy from the Greenspoint Mall parking lot.

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-Joe
 
texan
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:55 am

DL also had A310s in their fleet which they acquired with some of Pan Am's other assets. If the question is which major US carriers, in operation today, have never had Airbii in their fleet, WN and AS are the only ones, I believe. Also, TWA had ordered A330s, but Icahn reneged on the deal costing TWA more money. Otherwise, TWA could have been added to the list of US airlines who had at one time or another used Airbus aircraft. But that's a little off topic, so that'll be it.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
rjpieces
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:11 am

Besides the whole argument over the A300 crash, Airbus just doesn't have any model right now that AA needs. The 7E7 is the most likely aircraft to enter their fleet in the coming years as it could replace their 767s, A300s, and some of their 757s.

Back when Boeing was first getting started with the 777NGs, AA wanted them to have it with an RR engine option but Boeing needed to get going on the project. AA was very angry with them and even asked Airbus for prices on the A345, however that was most likely just to anger/scare Boeing. Bottom line, I think there is little to no chance of AA ordering a brand new expensive plane that could only be operated in a handful of markets which AA isn't in.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
tommy767
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:24 am

If american decided to purchase airbus, my vote would go to the A330, for the A300 replacement. The A330 would be ideal for cargo and passenger needs on leasure routes, and caribbean routes. "Plane" and simple. Just my 2 Cents.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
9v-svc
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:30 am

A330 is the perfect replacement of the A300s but I am doubt that they will purchase Airbus planes . More likely they will either buy more 767s or go with the 7E7.
Airliners is the wings of my life.
 
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yyz717
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:31 am

More used GE A300-600's.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
ozzie
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:35 am

I doubt American will ever buy any more Airbus planes.

I will go crazy if they do.  Smile
 
dc10hound
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:36 am

I think the reaction from Airbus after AA flight #587 crash has solidified the fact that AA is not buying Airbus, Airbus blamed AA's Maintenance practices, and pilot training for the accident.

And what part of my maintenance practices did they blame? Could you please site a reference or quote? What was it about the vertical stabilizer mounts that we were supposed to "maintain"? Does anybody routinely remove the tails to inspect them?
"Eagles soar. But weasels never get sucked into jet intakes.."
 
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STT757
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:37 am

AA is in the process of reducing their fleet types, the A300 will be gone by 2008.

AA's future fleet will be..

777s
737-800s (replace M80s)
757/767s transitioning to the 7E7

Three types = more $avings
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
sllevin
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:43 am

A330 is the perfect replacement of the A300s

I would disagree. The A330-200 weighs 70,000 pounds more than the A300. Sure, it's got a lot more range, but AA isn't flying the A300's to the max right now.

Steve
 
rjpieces
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:50 am

Plus doesn't the 330 carry less cargo than the 300?

I agree with STT. They might get some other 737NGs, other than the -800.
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
ckfred
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:13 pm

When AA signed its Boeing contract in 1997 or 1998, it got the right to 600+ production slots over 20 years. I think AA has taken delivery of about 200 planes since then, so there are still 400 slots for AA. So, there is no reason to go shopping at Airbus.

Another reason that AA may not go Airbus is that a number of AA pilots test flew the 777 and the A330/A340. It was overwhelming support for the 777. A friend of mine flies for AA, and he hasn't meet anyone who is willing to go to a sidestick with the Airbus level of automation. A lot of pilots at AA started as F/Es on 727s, and they've loved Boeings ever since.

Not that pilot opinion matters horribly when spending millions for aircraft, but certainly, no one wants pilots flying planes they don't like.

I think the most likely additions to the fleet will be the 7E7, as replacement for the 757 and 767, and the 737-700, to replace the F100 and MD-80. AA probably will also order more 737-800s.
 
flyingbronco05
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:28 pm

If AA wants a plane that Boeing doesn't have, you can bet that Boeing will build it.

FB05
Never Trust Your Fuel Gauge
 
aa777223er
Posts: 217
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:32 pm

STT757:

AA has told us employees that they have no plans of retiring the A300 in the foreseeable future. I personally wish it were gone already, but I think with the economic environment we are currently operating in, "the bus" is going to be around for awhile at AA. And that MD80 too, is going to be around forever. AA operates 335 of them (about 25% of all MD80/90's ever built!) and makes up roughly 50% of AA's fleet. The only for sure thing is the F100 will be gone by the end of the year. I like your fleet outlook, I wish it were going to be that way sooner rather than way later  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
time flies, seize the day
 
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STT757
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:56 pm

Apparently some of your "co-workers" have been told different, as seen in another thread on the topic.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1389167/
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
aa777223er
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:25 pm

STT757:

Thanks for the direction to that thread. I'm new here and had not seen it. I guess us frontline employees aren't as privy to this info even when we ask for it (as I did last fall and was told what I posted). My "co-worker" sounds like management considering the reference to "senior management power point presentations". Thanks again for the info  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
time flies, seize the day
 
TradewindL1011
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:13 pm

The chances of American buying Airbus again are as likely as the chances of TAP, RJ, BMI, or AerLingus buying Boeing again.

-Trent
 
747-451
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 2:13 pm

"I think the reaction from Airbus after AA flight #587 crash has solidified the fact that AA is not buying Airbus, Airbus blamed AA's Maintenance practices, and pilot training for the accident.

And what part of my maintenance practices did they blame? Could you please site a reference or quote? What was it about the vertical stabilizer mounts that we were supposed to "maintain"? Does anybody routinely remove the tails to inspect them?"

Wasn't an AA A300 involved in a turbulence problem once before and wasn't the 587 plane involved in a rough landing incident once before? PS I doubt anyone inspects those mounts unless it is during a D-check.

Secondly what sort of "training" issues does Airbus have with AA--or maybe it should be "why doesn't Airbus make a plane that can withstand the corrective pilot inputs neccessary (without the tail braking off)when compensating wake turbulence from a 747-400...it goes both ways..




"
 
gigneil
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Wed Feb 25, 2004 5:53 pm

DL ordered new A310-300s, not just the Pan Am ones.

AA was so furious with Boeing over the selection of the GE-90 over the Trent for the longer range 777s that they actually issued a public RFP for the 345.

New transpolar routes prevented them from taking action.

N
 
Guest

RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:22 am

"AA787:

AA thinks first: Boeing - Boeing - Boeing "

Is that the reason why AA is under Chapter 11?
 
gigneil
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:25 am

They aren't.

dot dot dot

N
 
NWA742
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:31 am

Is that the reason why AA is under Chapter 11?

Are you saying that it would be different if they had an Airbus fleet?

They're not under Chapter 11 anyway.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:39 am

American has 777ER's in its long haul sector but, unlike most poeple here may think, they could choose the A340-500 over the 777-300ER for three reasons:
-no ETOPS restrictions


the 773ER, by its own merit, will not be ETOPS "restricted" on any route AA has the rights/ambitions for. That, and 3 & 4engined aircraft most likely will not be exempt from the protection of ETOPS for much longer.


-the 777-300ER is offered with only GE engines and the A340-500 is offered with RR engines which power the 777 at American.

Aside from the engines, the former would also have nigh-perfect commonality with AA's eventual 54-aircraft 772ER fleet.

The exact opposite is true of the A345 (which does not by the way, directly compete with the 773ER)... a major disadvantage to the Airbus.



-a 2-4-2 seat layout better than a 2-5-2 seat layout, no seat is more than one seat away from an aisle. It's not fun to have a middle seat in a set of 5 seats on a long flight.

You actually think USA airlines care about how "fun" you feel the seating arrangement might be...?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
contrails
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RE: If American Ever Buys Airbus Planes Again...

Thu Feb 26, 2004 4:52 am

I don't think AA will buy from Airbus again any time soon. The relationship between the two companies is strained, to say the least.

As for A340's, I think AA is going to be a two-engine airline from now on. But if they ever do change their mind, I'd love to see a 21st. century version of the 707.
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