TG992
Topic Author
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L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:47 am

Thirteen Air New Zealand cabin crew members were flown home from the United States without their passengers after witnessing a suicide on their way to work.

Full story at the link below - pretty grim stuff.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3551192&thesection=news&thesubsection=general

I'm an employee of NZ so I may be biased - but the fact NZ took a $50,000 loss by cancelling this flight to ensure their employees received proper follow-up care and attention makes me damned proud to work for them!

[Edited 2004-02-25 03:02:24]
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FA4UA
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:57 am

WOW! That was absolutely the right thing for NZ to do with that crew! I would be hard pressed to believe that any of the American carriers would have been that kind unless the Unions stepped in and threw a fit.

You have to treat your crews well if you want a successful business! NZ showed class and compassion in this incident! Something that those 13 crew will likely never forget!

FA4UA
The debate continues... Starwood or Hyatt... which is better
 
luv2fly
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:03 am

That was a very caring and kind gesture that the management of NZ showed to there employees.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
sw733
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:08 am

Bravo for NZ....Bravo indeed...I agree that no American Airline would do that for their crew...
 
calvin99
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:16 am

wow.. good job air nz..!! thats the right thing to do
 
AA777MIA
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:19 am

Way to go NZ, and the crew of NZ for trying to save this person's life afterward. What a horrible thing to witness.
 
NIKV69
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 am

Hats off to Air NZ, that had to be a horrible day for the flight crew and it's nice to see a airline taking care of their own.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
IHadAPheo
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:51 am

This effort shows that NZ is a class act all around , first from the crew having had the horrific event happen to them and that they tried to provide aid to the person was outsanding, Second the way that AZ's managment treated their employee's was first class as well (no pun intended)

Yours,
IHadAPheo
Pray hard but pray with care For the tears that you are crying now Are just your answered prayers
 
ScarletHarlot
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:53 am

That is definitely classy of Air NZ but I am sure they were covering their own butts as well. Imagine if any crew members had lost it on the flight.
But that was when I ruled the world
 
ltbewr
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:31 pm

AirNZ did the right thing. (per the article, the crew was on the way to LAX and a person commited suicide by jumping from a freeway overpass and landing on/near their van). Obiously they were in no condition to work and they didn't have enought crew to cover for them so Air NZ made the only real decision without disruption to future flights. One question I have is what did they do with the passangers who were supposed to be on that flight? Put them on UA, Qantas or other airline flights or for the next day's flight?
 
NWFltAttendant
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:44 pm

Kudos to NZ management for making that decision. The human mind can play some real wacko games after an incident.... I bet the pilots loved that takeoff....hehehe....a 747-400 with NOBODY on it.... wheeee..... can you say climb rate !  Smile
Go yakkin !!!!!!
 
kevin752
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:49 pm

Air New Zealand is a great airline and I know that they would do something nice like that. Their F/a's are great and provide great service on their flights. NZ has a lot of class and I wish that I could fly with them again.
"Keep Climbing"
 
TG992
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 3:11 pm

In answer to LTBEWR's question, our passengers were transferred to the following flights that night:

NZ005 LAX-AKL
NZ001 LAX-AKL
NZ053 LAX-PPT-RAR-AKL
QF026 LAX-AKL

Some passengers elected to stay overnight (at Air NZ's expense) and travelled on NZ003 the following day.
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AMM744
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:01 pm

We've been with ANZ to LAX and back to LHR, both ways they were superb, very professional attentive service. A damn good airline and this incident just goes to show what a caring airline it is too.

Good on ya ANZ.
 
777ER
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:30 pm

AirNZ did the right thing. (per the article, the crew was on the way to LAX and a person commited suicide by jumping from a freeway overpass and landing on/near their van).

The person landed on the NZ crews van, The van was dented but it was still drive able

 Smile/happy/getting dizzyThe post is from a DAMN PROUD kiwi Smile/happy/getting dizzy
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northseatiger
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:05 am

I must agree good to show to the NZ management a bit of compassion.
T's And P's look good....Rotate
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:36 am

Sorry everyone, but I don't agree one bit.

I wonder what those crew members would have done if one of their passengers was seriously hurt or sick on board, or if their plane crashed and they had to help badly injured passengers get to safety.

Would they be shocked and disturbed, like they were when they saw the badly hurt (dead?) suicide victim?

I agree that it is disturbing to see someone commit suicide, but it is an eventuality like any other, say a plane crashing and cabin crew are supposed to be trained to face such disasters with presence of mind and maturity. They should not lose control and get sick like wussies when such events occur.

The crew in question should be grounded and put through retraining!

[Edited 2004-02-25 21:38:17]
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
LFutia
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:43 am

did NZ pay $50,000 to just fly w/o passengers or no? Glad to see that the Kiwi crew were very helpful after just witnessing a horrific thing.
Leo/ORD -- Groetjes uit de VS! -- Heeft u laatst nog met KLM gevlogen?
 
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PA110
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:48 am

DIJKKIJK,
You must live in a very dark world. Although the crew was on the way to the airport, the incident did not occur during the course of their professional duties. Comparing anticipated reactions on and off the aircraft is not a valid measurement. I think what NZ did shows integrity and class.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
jmy007
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:50 am

I respectfully disagree with DIJKKIJK,

If I was on my way to work, weather be here in an office, or a 14 hour trans pacific flight, and on my way to work, a guy jump off a bridge, landed on my car, that I was in, I don't think I would be in the best of conditions that day for work.
If I had to face 300 or so people that night, and be there for 12 hour flight, I think the security, safety, service, would certainly be compromised.
Would you want to still fly, knowing what the cabin crew just went through.
luckly ANZ has several flights from LAX to be reacommidate on.

In my mind, ANZ is not a heartless company, , and knowing that, that would influence my decision on selling the airline to clients, friends and family.

Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
rongotai
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:03 am

Dijkkijk

Your comment is almost uncomprehensibly stupid. As someone who works in the field of aviation safety I can tell you that it is extraordinarily dangerous to assume that training dehumanises flight crew such that they are not affected by any events of this nature, whether it be on board or elsewhere. It is exactly the reverse of what you say - any staff member who does NOT have a normal human emotional response to such incidents should be regarded as a potential problem.

Any intelligent airline stands down a crew member who has to deal with such an incident. It has nothing to do with being a 'wuss'. It is just good risk management. This crew (I hope ) had no choice in the matter. They were there - the flight crew were not. The crew members to be concerned about would be those who wanted to continue with their duty and pushed to do so.

I would imagine that most of them as professionals would have said something like 'I'm feeling shocked, but I'll be OK', and would then be stood down by their manager, and they would not have protested. If any of them got hysterical or excessively distressed at the scene - warning sign. If any of them assertively said that they wanted to keep working - bigger warning sign.

If it is true that there are airlines that would NOT have stood down a crew in such circumstances, then I would have big questions about their management practices and I would not want to fly with them. My response is neither to believe that the crew weak, nor that Air NZ were especially compassionate. I would just say ' sound management - just what I would expect as a safety professional'.
 
law4fun
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:10 am

Incredible CLASS shown by ANZ! Hats off to their management for their foresight.
Canon Shutter Slut
 
rongotai
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:14 am

More to Dijkdijk

I have just noticed that you are from the Netherlands. Your national passenger rail company, NSR, experiences about 50 people a year killed by trains - either as suicides or by accident. NS SOP's require the machinist (driver) to remain in the cab in such circumstances, and that the conductor deals with the mess on the track. Afterwards both driver and conductor are required by regulation to be stood down for two days, and are entitled to more days if necessary through their employment contract. The company also makes counsellors available on request.

I trust that KLM practices are similar. If you are, in fact, a KLM employee, or are reflecting a KLM attitude, then I will certainly never fly by them again.
 
azncsa4qf744er
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:27 am

This message is for DIJKKIJK

If you read the article it said the crew did help the person jumping off the freeway bridge. They said nothing about those crew walking away from the sense. The following statement was copied from the article.

Mr Sims said the crew went to assist but the person was dead and they were "faced with a horrific scene".

We are only human, it normal to react like this. Put yourself in their shoes, would you be able to work a 12hrs flight if you just witness a dead like that? I think not....

NO! The crew would not be considered or grounded and put through retraining. They are not their to deal with these kind of situation. They are their to help and assist. It's the aftermath that hurt.

However, I do agree that the flight shouldn't have cancelled. The crew could been placed on a later NZ flight. As NZ5 could have been delayed while back-up crew are called to work. That could of save the company USD50,000.
 
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eta unknown
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:33 am

You might find most of th NZ crew are on minium rest at LAX, so there wasn't any real alternative to recrew the cancelled flight.
 
azncsa4qf744er
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:46 am

I just realize that. Keep forgetting NZ crew rest operate differently than QF.
 
jcded
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 6:48 am

An airline that dealt with the situation in a humane way that should be the standard. I do believe other airlines would have followed similar procedures though.
You breathe to do good and have fun.
 
AA777MIA
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 8:53 am

DIJKKIJK:

Your post is way out of line buddy.. First off the NZ crew actually tried to help the person that jumped. It was NZ management that made the decision to fly the plane back empty. SMART! NOT STUPID! Working at a company where SAFETY is our #1 value, I say that NZ did the right thing!
 
LImamura
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:20 am

I think that NZ has a lot of class for doing what they did.
They clearly are very caring and a smart company.
However, I keep asking myself - If I was a passenger on that flight, even though I know what the crew just went through, but if I know that the airplane is leaving LAX for AKL anyway, even though there would be no cabin service or meals, I would want to have the option of taking that flight with no service or waiting for another flight later. Especially since I would just want to sleep and read onboard anyway.
But, I do understand why NZ would not allow this because of many reasons such as: safety, resposibility, physical & mental condition of crew, emergency situation, FAA(?), etc, etc, etc...
 
Noonerlicious
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:28 am

I think it was a nice gesture for NZ to "take care" of their crew but in reality they are in the industry where they would see things out of the norm. So what I'm trying to say is that I don't really think they should have been flown back like they were. In fact it would had been more beneficial if they had done it at LA and if any crew had any objections then those individuals should be dealt separately. Just my two cents!

Much love from delicious Noonerlicious.....PLEASE stop the applause, I've already left the room!
 
styles
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 9:38 am

Why does the flight deck crew take different transport from the hotel to the airport from the cabin crew? Do they stay at different hotels? Or, is it a union requirement that the flight deck crew negotiated in their contract?
 
anxebla
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 10:31 am

I only can to say one thing:
*I COULD HAVE BEEN PROUD FOR WORKING BY AIR NEW ZEALAND*
dikkijk: How do you can BE so INSENSITIVE??? I can't understand you
Like humans,we have feelings.Even animals like dogs,cats too have feelings.It's natural and normal.
With a bad mental conditional,safe can be in dangerous.BRAVO for NZ!!!!
In a similar situation,I would like to see IBERIA can do a similar thing.
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
tcfc424
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:03 pm

DIJ...

As a firefighter, I have seen such scenes. Nowhere here or in the article has it been said that the crew did not/was not capable of handling any duties during the incident. On the contrary, it says they went to assist. Just as firefighters do. The secen may be horrific, but we finction as we are trained to do, often putting aside personal feelings until AFTER the incident, as occured here. Firefighters, cops, paramedics are all relieved of duty following an event like this...often not at their request. By your comments, it would seem to me that you EXPECT a flight crew to be involved in an aircraft accident (300 pax did you say?) and THEN work a 12-hour flight...c'mon man! I am glad you don't live near me, because I would be tempted to give you a lesson in horror...come ride with my crew and see how you react.

-Mike in AUS

PS, great job NZ! Definitely good business.
 
aa777jr
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:12 pm

I have flown both QF and NW, both great airlines. I am glad to see that the airlines did the right thing. I disagree on the reference that no Domestic based carrier would offer to do the same thing. I thin UA or NW both would have taken care of their officers in flying them home if they felt any need to.
A liberal is a man who is right most of the time, but he's right too soon.
 
a340pilot
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 1:44 pm

OK, This is a typical thread that has started with something terrible that happened to a flight crew ( who gets the thumbs up from me!  Big thumbs up ) and pretty much everyone agrees with the fact that NZ flight crew did a wonderful job!
However, one person tries to rile a thread, DIJKKIJK had set the trap, and a lot of you have fallen into it! Where are his responses to your posts? If he doesn't have the guts to reply to posts all that he is doing is trying to rile you up and unfortunately he is winning this battle, there's an easy solution to this problem...................... IGNORE HIS POST!!! .........Simple!  Big grin

Just my own personal view not meant to offend anyone including DIJKKIJK! If this has offended anyone I apologise!

Best regards,
a340pilot
Go! Canucks Go!
 
rongotai
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:11 pm

a340pilot

Probably because he lives in the Netherlands and made his post in the evening, then went to bed, and will shortly wake up. Whether or not he reappears to respond will depend on:

(a) whether or not he accesses the web in the morning; and
(b) how quickly this thread drops off the bottom of the screen.

Personally i am quite curious to keep it alive long enough to see if he does respond and, if so, what that response is.
 
airlinelover
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:47 pm

First off, that was a real show of caring from the ANZ people. First, the crew, for going out to help from the shuttle when they didn't have to, second, for the management to take care of their crew like that.

DIJKKIJK:

While I can not speak for all crew members of all airlines, I know that when I was on the shuttlebus or in my car on the way to the airport, I wasn't in my "working" mode yet. Once I arrived AT my base office, and we started going over everything, procedures, etc etc, things started going into "work" mode. A lot of times what crews talk about on the busses or whatnot was the previous day, the hotel, or something similar. Not necessarily work related. It is a lot easier to get into the mind-set of being a F/A when you get to the base, or to your plane, etc etc. You were, and are, clearly out of line.

I trust that KLM practices are similar. If you are, in fact, a KLM employee, or are reflecting a KLM attitude, then I will certainly never fly by them again.

Amen to that

Chris

Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
v2fix
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Thu Feb 26, 2004 7:36 pm

Way to go Air New Zealand.

This is exactly how a repsonsible employer should react and behave to its employees and customers. With care, repsonsibility and diligence.

Shock Trauma can be one of the most debilitateing events that a human being can suffer. It can happen minutes later, in can happen days and even years later.

I wish the crew well and praise them for their kindness and compassion shown in trying to save another human being who was in a desparate state of affairs.
742; 744; DC10, DC3, 321, 320, 319, 170,190, 772, 773,333, 346, 343
 
ZK-NBT
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Fri Feb 27, 2004 7:06 pm

Way to go Air NZ! Proud to be a Kiwi!

Not all airlines would have done this, but I think most would of.
 
AFheart
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Sat Feb 28, 2004 12:24 am

I our dutchman friend DIJKKIJK is missing what's really important here. SAFETY. I am sure other airlines would have done somewhat the same. Obvious and expected judgement/management call by NZ. Hey, just think..AF, and other airlines I'm sure, cancels flights or changes crews because they don't get enough rest. How could they not do the same for when events such as this one occur? Good job NZ crew/mgmnt. Don't forget about the Airport agents!! they did most of the dirty job of rebooking the passengers and facing them at the airport I'm sure.
////AF C'EST MA VIE\\
 
irishmd11
Posts: 80
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:00 pm

Firstly, hats off to the NZ management!

DIJ...

I don't know what your profession is, but I believe that I wouldn't like to have you as a work colleague, and even less should you be my team boss...

Tcfc424
Thanks for your post. With regards to PTSD, have you ever read the excellent book "Copshock" written by Allen R. Kates(Tucson, AZ)?

A nice day to all of you folks out there...

Gerry
ATR 72,Avro 85,BAC 1-11,Concorde,Trident,BAE146,BN Islander,707,727,737,741,743,744757,767,772,773,DC-9,DC-10,MD-11,MD-8
 
LJ
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RE: L.A. Suicide Causes Air NZ Flight Cancellation

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:24 am

One thing I know for certain now: Air New Zealand is a great airline with good mangement and employees.

I trust that KLM practices are similar. If you are, in fact, a KLM employee, or are reflecting a KLM attitude, then I will certainly never fly by them again.

Rogontai, I doubt that DIJKIJK is a KLM employee. DIJKIJK's attitude isn't popular in The Netherlands (and beyond) and I know that KLM's practices are similar to those of the Dutch railways.

Moreover I doubt that he's ever been in a situation similar to what the NZ F/A's have been. If he would he would know what the impact of such an event can be on a person.

However, one person tries to rile a thread, DIJKKIJK had set the trap, and a lot of you have fallen into it!

A340Pilot, I hope you're correct. However, I hear sometimes strange things............

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