munich
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 3:46 pm

What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:22 pm

St. Louis ( STL ) airport has a dramatically lost of passenger in the last years. Since 2000 the loss is round about a third and 2002 to 2003 even 20,3%.

YEAR / PAX TOTAL / Change
2003 / 20,426,937 / -20,29
2002 / 25,626,114 / -4,00
2001 / 26,695,019 / -12,64
2000 / 30,558,991 / 1,23

What's the reason for this?

At Pittsburgh ( PIT ) this year there ist also a tremendous loss in passenger figures from 18,027,165 in the year 2002 to 14,266,984 in 2003, what means a loss of -20,86%. Why this?

Greets from Munich in Munich / Germany

[Edited 2004-02-29 14:29:22]
Regards! Robert alias munich
 
Guest

RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:39 pm

Because AA has decreaded the size of its STL hub while US has done the same for PIT.
 
UNITED777300
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:40 pm

There is a very simple explanation for this. In STL, TWA was the hub carrier; but they went Ch.7 in 2001. And when AA bought them out they drasticly reduced traffic from STL (dropping routes/changing routes to RJ's). And in PIT, that's because of US's downsizing.
/// U N I T E D: It's Time to Fly.
 
pilotpip
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Sun Feb 29, 2004 10:43 pm

Munich,

Greetings from STL. The drastic decline can be traced to one event. American Airlines buying TWA. With two hubs within a short distance (ORD and DFW), many of the flights and services that were done here on TWA aircraft became redundant. This has resulted in massive cutbacks in the flight schedule and massive layoffs as well. Last November, AA cut 200 flights including all international flights and many that were shorter in distance or had low demand due to competition from LCCs like Southwest. At that time, AA comprised about 80% of all operations out of STL. Two popular destinations that fall into this category are Kansas City, Missouri and Omaha, Nebraska. Other routes such as STL-LAX saw a reduction in capacity and frequency. Regional Jets have also replaced mainline jets on many routes.

Some of this void has been filled by Southwest, Delta, and Northwest adding flights and Frontier introducing service to Denver recently. However, only about 20 flights have been added by these carriers. STL has no more passenger widebody service and if you are familiar with the airport, the D concourse was recently vacated. AA uses the B and C concourses. Delta, Frontier, America West, Northwest, United and Continental use the A concourse as they had before. Southwest and charter service flies out of the East Terminal.

While it sounds like gloom and doom here, things are starting to turn around. The "which airline will start service to STL" threads are almost as common as the "when will NW retire the DC-9" threads here. Most airlines have recently added flights or increaced frequency as demand increaces. I've noticed that there have been more aircraft on approach in the evening recently as well.

I hope this helps you in your quest for info.
DMI
 
N670UW
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:07 pm

Within the past, say, six years, US Airways has downsized the PIT hub from over 500 daily departures (of mostly mainline) to the approximately 370 daily departures that they operate now (of which most are US Express).

On a good note, however, other carriers at the airport have seen increases in traffic within recent time.


670
 
atrude777
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:23 am

Ohhh I do love STL topics, everyoen pretty much said it all, reductions with major airlines at their respective hubs. I am still awating B6 and FL hehehe.


Any chance LH will start STL-MUC??, Munich, would be cool

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
munich
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 3:46 pm

RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:25 am

Thx. all, especially Pilotpip for the detailed information.

Btw! It's a little bit funny for me to read that STL to ORD, respecively DFW are short distances.  Smile STL-ORD is nearby the distance from Munich to Cologne and STL to DFW (550 mi) is more far as Munich to Rome (453 mi) or a little bit less as Munich to London (566 mi, all distances are like the crow flies). But I know, USA is a little bit bigger as Germany Big grin

But now back to the topic!

If I understand you right, noe it can be expected that the loss for STL (and PIT) is over respectively I can expect a smooth growth at STL in 2004.

Greets to USA
Robert
Regards! Robert alias munich
 
munich
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:42 am

Sorry atrude777, I think I must disappoint you. There is nearby no chance for a LH MUC-STL-flight. In a german forum there was a rumour about MUC-MSY, but I also can't believe it. LH serves mainly STAR Hubs and high yield destination with bizz traffic and I can't belive in high yield or bizz traffic to MSY.

Shortly LH cuts even the FRA-PHX-flights.
Regards! Robert alias munich
 
pilotpip
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:27 am

You know how us americans like it, BIG!! But in all honesty, it takes an hour on a bad day for STL-ORD flights and maybe 90 minutes for STL-DFW.

You'd be surprised I could see a demand for STL-MUC. St. Louis has a very strong German heritage. I can attest as my grandfather was born in Berlin. A number of very large corporations are based here and there are quite a few large companies that are owned by German immigrants. However, as long as there are empty seats on the flights crossing the pond from ORD and DFW I don't see this as likely. As I recall, TWA once had a decent presence in MUC. Maybe the route could have worked during the summer travel season?

While options from other carriers here have increased, they come nowhere near smoothing over the effects of the AA cutbacks. They won't for a long time unless something dramatic happens.
DMI
 
atrude777
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:21 am

Pilotpip- I know a businessman who is from Germany and he owns a business here in carbondale, and all of hsi workers transfer back and forth between STL and germany(munich I think he flies to) he has about 50 workers or so here in Carbondale, and over a hundred in Germnay, all the workers fly back and forth alot for business, so we definetly have a germnay based company here that flies it, and he said he flew STL-ORD-FRA/MUC because no n/.s and he wishes he had it to fly it.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
LambertMan
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:29 am

Atrude, of course we would have at least one business that commutes for Germany. For a metro area of 2.8 million I'd hope that we would have several in the area. The question is whether or not we have enough high yielding passengers for the flight, and my instincts tell me no. STL-MUC is a pipe dream without some type of bait (block seat guarantee or something along the lines) the flight is truthfully a long way away. I think we could fill it in the summers and do marginal in the winters, but I think it comes back to the fact that it would be leisure and therefore low-yield. Does PHX-FRA ring a bell?
 
jmy007
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:21 am

Of Course, TWA flew STL-FRA for many years.
As much as I would love to see a foreign carrier at lambert again (AC not included  Big grin )
I just don't think that the o/d traffic, and or buisness would support such a flight.

Again, saying that, there is LH flight to PDX and CLT. So who knows. But I would bet that a one world carrier might fill a void in STL, if AA expands again.

my two cents!
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
 
atrude777
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:55 pm

I think lambertman if enough business people did the block thing liek AA RDU-LGW then we might have a flight, but no one wants to come forward..hehehe oh well, its still nice to dream..

jmy007- CLT is for the US Airways hub, but I cant explain PDX?? STL has no feed for LH, it would have to be a oneworld carier liek it was said., I still think a Mexican airline could do great on the STL-MEX run for connecting into the AA flights and outward. BA is to similiar to AA so i dont see it working.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
LambertMan
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:45 pm

Munich, while we have lost many many flights, we still sustain a decent amount of service for the demand in the area. Large AA and WN presence, and a limited presence throughout the other top 9 carriers and Frontier. There was a projection by the StL-PD that we could hit some 14 million passengers this year (near the PIT figure) but it has been scaled back according to an article from kmov.com that shows we'll be right at 13.5 million pax. Not that bad, as long as we still beat our intra-state rivals. Big thumbs up
 
jmy007
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RE: What's About St. Louis (STL) And PIT

Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:34 pm

Also, I think sometimes we forget with the scale back of the STL hub, we truly lost service to only a few cities, Honolulu, Anchorage, London, etc. Other cities, which AA cut, STL to still has service to, such as Kansas City etc.
So as a hub, STL lost frequency (and widebodies), for sure, but in terms of where you can go from St.Louis, not many city connections where lost.

Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.