akjetBlue
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Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:54 am

What are the odds on this one surviving?
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srbmod
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 7:10 am

Midwest Express is gone, airline has been renamed Midwest Airlines.
 
captcjmac
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 9:09 am

FOREVER!!!!

LONG LIVE MIDWEST AIRLINES!
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:12 am

http://www.midwestairlines.com

Maybe you should find out a thing or two about them yourself before you question their demise.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:30 am

Maybe you should find out a thing or two about them yourself before you question their demise.

Considering this airline has one of (if not THE) highest operating expenses in the country.... this post isnt exactly a stretch
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
luv2fly
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:33 am

I will say I have always wanted to fly them tho the connections offered from my home airport either means a long lay over on the outbound or the return, no good connections I can take. And since 9-11, and from what I have read, other than the more generous seating layout, just what does "Midwest" offer over the majors? Or for that matter the LCC's that give me PTV's, leather seats and do not charge for snacks.

[Edited 2004-03-01 02:34:35]
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rockyracoon
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:34 am

Hopefully forever! Although I've never flown them, they sound like a great airline. Plus they fly the 717, how can't you like that?


peace
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:47 am

ConcordeBoy-
I know as well as anyone that YX is not in the greatest financial state, but I do think they will continue to be around for some time (even though things wont be what they once were). Saver service seems to be doing well in florida winter markets, and LAS has been beefed up to 2 or 3 daily. For a luxurious product, you really cant beat the new 717 interiors. However, the true nature of my first post was mostly to have the thread starter find out a thing or two about them, and maybe bring a question with some real topic or information.

So, let a hard core YX discussion begin..

[Edited 2004-03-01 03:04:46]
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phxmkeflyer
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:58 am

They will be around for longer than most of you probably think. Although they will never be a "major" they serve a niche market and have taken the brunt of the industry downturn. They were the most attractive to business travelers, but the dip in business travelers hit them hard and are now focusing on leisure travelers as can be seen with the introduction of saver service to leisure markets.

The fleet renovation is also a move in the right direction with the 717's

Also the state of Wisconsin has alot invested in them and is likely going to give Midwest as much assistance as they can.
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:06 am

As a sidebar, when are the Embraers due to come online for Midwest Connect?!? I know that there's a mix of 135's, 140's, and 145's coming, but are there also any 145ER's? (just curious on that one...a bit off-topic, I know)
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
rockyracoon
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:02 pm

Mikey:

Would embraers coexist with the Dojets? Or are they thinking about dumping them? I would assume the Beech 1900s would be on their way out.

peace
 
UNITED777300
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:44 pm

The current plan only calls for ERJ145's; which won't come until after the inital batch of 717's has arrived. YX stated this at the time of the first 717 delivery. The 328's will replace the B1900's while the ERJ's will take the routes flown before by the 328's. Also, does anyoen know if YX has any plans for the MD80's?
/// U N I T E D: It's Time to Fly.
 
pilot727aa
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:55 pm

I flew on them in December and had a great trip from DFW-MSP. The FAs were the best. They were talking to me about the airline and sounded like they had all the confidence they would be around for a long time. Seems like they have a pretty good following in Milwaukee.
-Brady
 
MCIB757
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:55 pm

I love this airline, and fly on them as often as possible and hope to see them around for a long time. I think there doing ok, and things will get better.

Tom
"God bless catastrophe..."
 
MD-90
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:25 pm

They may have higher costs than the majors, but they also have better revenue potential. I tried to fly on them once from Nashville through Milwaukee to Connecticut just for fun (and get on the 328JET), but it just didn't work. Too long of a layover!

Ticket was only $400. Not bad compared to a $200 Delta ticket with far inferior accomodations and service.
 
717fan
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:30 pm

YX is said to be one of the airlines interested at the 717-300X as a MD-80 replacement..
 
SegmentKing
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:32 pm

I've heard that Midwest Saver is doing really well for YX. Most of the converted routes are actually flying a higher load factor than before the conversion from 118 to 146.

On a side note, I've flown Saver twice, and do your best to avoid rows 26 and higher.. the seat width was cut by 1/2 inch....

-nate
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
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mariner
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 3:00 pm

The Feds have issued some load factor stats for November. Remember that November is a slow-ish month.

Midwest appears to be holding its own at MKE. They have strong competition from NWA.

NWA: MKE/LAS = 83.8%, MKE/LAX = 46.6%, MKE/MCO = 66.9%. MKE/BOS = 34.9%, MKE/LGA = 36.4% and MKE/DCA was 32.4%.

Modwest: MKE/LAS = 88.5%, MKE/LAX = 76.5%, MKE/MCO = 78.8%. MKE/BOS = 62.9%, MKE/LGA = 68.8% and MKE/DCA = 62.9%.

Midwest is doing well, mostly, but it looks as if NWA is losing it's shirt on most of its routes out of MKE.

However, except for three routes, Midwest is not doing quite so well out of MCI:

MCI/SFO: 75.3% - excellent, especially for November.

MCI/LGA: 68.3% - very good.

MCI/DCA: 63.1% - good, but (as with MKE/DCA above) probably three or four points below break even.

After that it goes downhill, such as:

MCI/SAT: 57.3% - not good.

MCI/DSM: 37.5% - really not good.

Even though MCI/DSM is bad, DSM/DCA does better with 63.1% (OMA/DCA is 60.2%).

It's only one month, but the November l/fs followed a similar pattern to October.

On the MKE/DEN run, for example, Frontier's loads were consistently about 10 or 11 points higher than Midwest.

cheers

mariner
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SegmentKing
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:11 pm

YX only has 1 flight to DEN, mainly grabbing Midwest region & east coast traffic, where F9 has 3 flights in the market connecting west & south.

Out of FLL to MKE, Midwest is averaging about 92% load factors on Saver, and I'm hearing 90-numbers out of Tampa, Ft. Myers, and Orlando.

-n
~ ~ ~ ~ pRoFeSsIoNaL hUrRiCaNe DoDgEr ~ ~ ~ ~
 
Guest

RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Mon Mar 01, 2004 11:21 pm

Once they recoupe the flight crew training costs of $1200 an hour which they are currently incurring for the 717, they'll be making a killing. Right now crew costs are $1841 an hour. This training cost should be reduced to $500 this month and fall to $0 by August. A lot of upgrades.

Direct costs for them are $.1172 per available seat mile right now for the 717. This will fall to $.9013 when this cost goes away.
 
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mariner
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:57 am

SegmentKing:

Small thing: F9 has 2 x daily DEN/MKE/DEN, not 3.

Midwest: I'm not surprised by those Florida loads. Those routes are a gold mine in the winter, as shown by the November numbers.

Even before "season" began, Midwest was getting close to 80% MKE/MCO.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Guest

RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 2:02 am

Typo Correction... 11.7 cents per ASM to 9.013 cents per ASM.
 
slider
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 5:00 am

I think YX is the finest full service carrier in the U.S., bar none.

While they had historically been able to keep labor costs low, that began to creep up. Also, the fleet age, mx costs, etc, all began to rear their ugly head, hence the fleet renewal plan. The great thing about YX was when Kimberly-Clark divested them entirely, their balance sheet was wiped clean of long-term debt. They started with a clean slate, a great advantage.

I hope YX doesn't hedge from the premium quality that got them to this point. For spending far more on meals, etc than other carriers, they ought to be able to reclaim some revenue premium in turn. The structural problem with that is that I don't see that premium revenue coming back entirely: they're going to have to adjust the costs of premium service and really deal with the cost side more aggressively.

Long term, they can remain a viable niche carrier. They're well managed, they have a devoted following among fliers, solid local base, esp in MKE, and I think they'll be OK.
 
yxskip
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:08 am

MIDWEST will be around for a very long time. We offer great service (on the ground and in the air), comfortable seats...and respect our passengers--something many of the BIG airlines can't say.
We may not be the biggest, but we reamain at or very close to the top a lot of the airline ranking lists in travel publications,
The new 717's are an excellent aircraft and way more fuel efficent than the DC9's.
Saver service is very popular.
And we have employees that are enthusiastic and care about the future of the airline.

[Edited 2004-03-02 00:14:44]
 
MD-90
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:14 am

Why are the seats narrower towards the rear, Segment King?
 
yxskip
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:17 am

Seats in that area of the particular aircraft are near the galley. The Galley on that aircraft is wider, thus the seats in that area suffer a 1/2 inch. Those seats are usually given out last.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 10:59 am

I would hope they are around for a long time. I have always thought they were a nice little airline, even though they are smaller than most and don't have the greatest choices of destinations. They have the new 717's, but I personally always thought the shorter DC-9's they had were always fun to fly on. And the cookies have always been a big hit, as well as the plush seating. If I lived in MKE and they flew to where I was going, they would be worth a couple bucks more. They didn't get the name, "America's Favorite Little Airline" just by sitting on their thumbs.

"Sit back, relax, and pass out some more cookies, we'll get you to Milwaukee."
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LambertMan
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:15 am

Mariner, if you could direct me in the way of where I could find those stats I would appreciate it.

Those NW LF's are downright nasty. Looks like NW's plot to get YX while they were down (at least in my mind) is a miserable failure.

While from what I have heard about YX it seems like a great airline. I would really like to fly on them but they only serve us w/ Beech's and safe to say I don't want to fly on one if I'm going to go out of my way. Hopefully the E145's will allow them to fill some holes, and give markets only served with Beechs a chance to show their worthiness with the RJ's.

Regarding MCI-SAT...what gives with that route? Seems odd and out of place. MCI-DSM does too.
 
Mikey711MN
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 11:19 am

IIRC, that MCI-DSM leg continues on to DCA, the slot for which was given to YX once Access Air went under.
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
LambertMan
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 1:22 pm

Mariner...you've left me checking back and forth between homework and this board....link please. Smile

Bump.
 
N276AASTT
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:28 pm

I wish them well. I always hate to see/hear an airline is going out of business. They offer a great product. True that they have some of the highest expenses in the industry, but they're sticking to their guns while most carriers are going LCC. If money were no object, I would fly Midwest.
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mariner
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RE: Midwest Express How Long More Will They Be Around?

Tue Mar 02, 2004 4:31 pm

LambertMan:

Sorry, I've been off deck for a while.

I don't collect the numbers anymore, because it takes a bit of work. They are collected by a poster called knope2001, and he posts them on the Yahoo MEH (Midwest Airlines) stock board:

http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=7083055&tid=meh&sid=7083055&mid=15508

If you click "msg list" and them look for posts by knope2001 - usually the title will contain "T100" because that is what they are - he explains how to collect the data from the Federal agency.

If you get into trouble finding those "how to do it" posts, let me know and I'll check for you.

cheers

mariner
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