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Twa Opts For 753 And 777

Tue Jan 25, 2000 5:53 pm

TWA is looking at ordering 753 and 777 to replace 767s!

i hope they will place an order for the 753! this will swell the orderbook!
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RE: Twa Opts For 753 And 777

Tue Jan 25, 2000 6:09 pm

Where did you here the 777? I knew about the 757-300 but in my last conversation with people at TWA I was specifically told no to the 777! Further I just checked all the wires and sources and cannot find any reference to the 777... Where or how did you here on the 777? And if it is real what variant... 777-200, 777-200IGW, or 777-300?

Seriously, Please respond to this post as if there is validity it means a lot to me...

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RE: Twa Opts For 753 And 777

Tue Jan 25, 2000 6:42 pm

Mmm, the 753 will probably looks especially cute in TWA's scheme (just as it looks better on the 752 and MD83 than on the 762). I have no inside-info but I doubt TWA will order the 777. They got rid of all their high capacity aircraft and many European routes. I guess their fleet of 767s and 757s works out best for their trunk routes like STL-JFK and JFK-San Juan, where it's hard to fill a 777 all the time.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
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Flight International

Tue Jan 25, 2000 8:22 pm

it mentioned about looking at 777s in the flight international mag with the 767-400 on the cover.
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RE: Flight International

Tue Jan 25, 2000 8:41 pm

Please don´t forget that FI can be wrong, too. Some weeks ago they reported that Sichuan Airlines was extremly close to order the 328JET but they went for the ERJ-145. They are very good but they don´t know everything.

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RE: Flight International

Tue Jan 25, 2000 9:18 pm

777s in TWA colours . . .
Mmmm. Like that!!
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RE: Flight International

Tue Jan 25, 2000 9:42 pm

While I agree it would be one of the more attractive liveries on a 777. I just cannot see TWA getting them at current... The only route that "might" make sense would be JFK-TLV and maybe STL-NRT if they actually begin service on the dormant authority.

RE: Flight International

Tue Jan 25, 2000 10:29 pm

Pandora: It is unbelievable how you distorted the information in the FA article.
FYI: It's based on an interview with TWA's Senior Vice President for Planning, Jack Stelzer at the delivery ceremony for the last MD-80. That was on December 21, 1999.
In this interview Stelzer said that TWA is "in discussion" with Boeing over the possible acquisition of B757-300s. He also said that "we are not anywhere close to an announcement yet".

Stelzer also confirmed that the original order for 10 A330s is "still on the books" and added that there were no plans to remove them. In this context, he threw in that the B777 also figures in long-term studies.

Based on this article, it's probablty safe to say that TWA will order the B757-300. (Personally, I expect an announcement at one of the European air shows, this summer, maybe in Berlin, since TWA is planning the resumption of serviceto Germany this spring).
How you can derive from this article that TWA "opts" for the B777 is beyond me. That's totally unsubstantiated. TWA has meanwhile canceled the A330 order, but that doesn't mean that the A330/40 is not considered anymore. The primary reasons for this cancelation is the delivery date (2001), which is too early for TWA, the engines (TWA would prefer P&W, the A330 were supposed to come with RR engines), the range (the A330 wouldn't be able to make it from JFK to the Middle East or from STL to NRT). But TWA may still go for a mix of A330-200 and A340.
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Major Confusion Here....

Wed Jan 26, 2000 2:10 am

ok, I am totally confused now. Just last week there were posts that the A330 orders were for sure cancelled. Now it says that they are still in the books.
UK-TWA, from what I understand you are saying that TWA did cancel the orders, but will still consider them in the future. I am assuming even if they do consider the purchase of A330's it wont be for a long time. Most likely after they recieve all their A318's and A320 aircraft. And this isnt supposed to happen until 2003 and beyond. I think it is just to hard to discuss this topic when no one really knows what TWA is going to do in the future with their widebodies. I would personally love to see A330/40's or B777's in TWA paint. That would be absolutely awesome, but in reality, it sounds like this will not be happening anytime soon.
Am I correct?

RE: Major Confusion Here....

Wed Jan 26, 2000 3:39 am

TrnsWrld: Yes, the A330 order, as it was (10 A330-300 with RR Trent engines for delivery in 2001 and 2002), has been canceled.
Also, you are right in that the narrowbody fleet has priority for TWA. However, this involves primarily the replacement of the DC-9 fleet, and the remaining 10 B727s. The latter will be gone by the end of the year. The replacement a/c will be primarily B717s, and maybe some vintage MD80s. TWA is also looking at leasing additional B717s to accelerate the retirement of the nines. At the same time the replacement of B767-200s with -300s (and maybe some B757-300) is ongoing.

I would expect new, larger widebodies around 2003. In the fall of 2003, TWA's ticket sales agreement with its former owner Icahn will expire (it allows his company "Karabu" to sell a nearly unlimited amount of seats on TWA flights at discount prices, and has a negative impact on TWA's yields, particularly on the transatlantic flights out of New York). Once TWA is freed of Karabu, the JFK hub will likely be redeveloped.
Secondly, TWA was recently awarded route authority to Japan. Currently they have no aircraft in the fleet that could reach Tokyo nonstop from St. Louis. TWA claims that the company has been unable to obtain viable slots at Narita, and therefore has deferred this service. My hunch is that TWA will keep deferring it until the second runway at NRT opens (I have forgotten, when exactly that is, but I believe, it's around 2002 or 2003). So, at this time TWA needs to have an aircraft at hand that can fly the route. You may not have to wait until the A320s come on line.
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RE: Major Confusion Here....

Wed Jan 26, 2000 4:32 am

gee, i had my hopes up when i saw the article..

oh yeah, flt int can bullshi* sometimes, like when they did an interview with American airlines last year. AA said they will order 753s but still haven't.

i would personally love to see TWA going for Boeing widebodies. anyway they haven't ordered much Boeing planes recently (except for the 717).

imagine a 777-300 or a 767-400 in TWA colours...
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Wed Jan 26, 2000 5:32 am

TWA HAS cancelled the 10 A330-300s.
TWA will most likely order 757-300s
TWA has confirmed 25 A318s, 12 of which will be leased from ILFC
TWA is rumored to be in discussions with Pembroke for 'several extra 717s.'
As Ive said time and time again, before and now after the 330 cancellation, we will NEVER see a TWA A330-300. There is a small possibility for an order for 6-8 A340/777 to serve JFK-TLV/CAI-RUH,STL-NRT, but that order is still a ways away and contingent of TWA actually making a profit at least once!
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What A TWA 777 Would Look Like...

Wed Jan 26, 2000 8:26 am

Took me FOREVER to find this again!

That would be sweet!
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RE: Twa Opts For 753 And 777

Wed Jan 26, 2000 8:55 am

Now that all goes back to what I have been hearing and saying...

TWA for the record also cancelled the A320 order...

The only Airbus aircraft TWA has planned is for 25 A318 aircraft. All the A320 family and A330 aircraft have been cancelled.

TWA is leasing AS MD82/83 aircraft as they are retired from AS. TWA is making the leasing company compensate TWA for the C and D check maint. and refurbs before introducing them into the fleet.

TWA is releasing 767-200 aircraft for 767-300ER aircraft equiped with PW engines when they can get a good deal on the used market. (ie 2 coming on line Q3 this year after D check and overhaul)

Much more rational than TWA picking up 777's when they cannot fill them year round at enough yield to make them viable.

TWA's management team is making the best of a bad situation resulting from years of mismanagement in keeping the carrier afloat. Revitalizing the fleet. Improving operational proformance etc etc .

Kudos to TWA employees for running one of the best airlines out there with minimal resources!

Kudos to TWA management for not doing stupid things like buying "big" "pretty" aircraft they cannot afford that sink the carrier, And not continuing money losing markets that don't have enough yield to support them.

Lets hope we see a JFK or STL to LHR in the future....

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RE: Twa Opts For 753 And 777

Wed Jan 26, 2000 9:53 am

Garbage. An airline cannot "cancel" orders that never existed.

Have no fear, onlookers, the remaining A318s and A320s still figure in TWA's future plans. The airline is in no rush to speed the ordering of A320s as they are not due before 2007.
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RE: Twa Opts For 753 And 777

Wed Jan 26, 2000 10:01 am

The order placed by TWA replaced the MOU. The A320 family A319/320/321 is out unless you can show me anything after the MOU which was cancelled and replaced by the firm order. It also cancelled the A330 order and freed up the deposit money paid almost a decade ago.
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A320s Still On Order?

Wed Jan 26, 2000 7:29 pm

ravi and activale, can you guys tell me are the a320s planes are still on order? who is right here?
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RE: Twa Opts For 753 And 777

Wed Jan 26, 2000 10:21 pm

The MOU signed by TWA involving A320s included a clause with respect to offering the PW8000 on the A320 for delivery from 2007/8 onwards. During 1999 Airbus showed that it was less likely to put the PW8000 on the A320 and instead PW began looking at uprating the engine for use on the A340-500/600 from 2006 onwards.

The A320s were never officially on order. However, the SEPARATE MOU for A320s remains intact between TWA and Airbus. The MOU for A318s and A320s was announced on the same day in 1998, but involved two separate tentative agreements. As you will witness, with delivery not scheduled before 2008, there is no reason for TWA to firm up this order now. That would be a senseless waste of deposit cash that the airline could well use.

TWA and Boeing are haggling on the B753 whether or not the airline will be capable of turning the airplanes in less than 60 minutes. Condor has been turning its -300s in as little as 55 minutes. TWA will order 10 plus take 10 options.

TWA has long term plans for a 300-seat airplane for 2008 and beyond. So an order for A330/340s or B777s isn't likely to be within the next five years.
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Ravi Is On The Money

Thu Jan 27, 2000 5:21 pm

Ravi I could not have said it better myself. The A320 was an MOU that currently does NOT look like it will be executed. They did get the deposit cash from the A330 put towards the A318 order hence killing that firm contract. The total number of A318 aircraft now looks to be 25 not 50 as originally anticipated in 1998. On the other hand the number of B717 aircraft is 50 firm orders plus an unspecified nu,ber to be leased in addition to those through Pembroke Aircraft Leasing. In addition to options on 50 more B717's

I would anticipate that if TWA looks for anything larger (not likely) it would be in the 767-400 or 777 group. TWA seems to have a very strong and good relation growing with Boeing. (My guess would be a 767-400 order in around 3-4 years for delivery in 2006-2007 range assuming all is well at TWA)

Further, The 757-300's would probably only replace 2-4 of the 767-200's and the rest would be used for growth. The remaining 767-200's will be replaced with used 767-300er's and it looks like the tail numbers are reserved for a few from what I am hearing.

Hope that helps

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