Cory6188
Topic Author
Posts: 2609
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:25 am

Here's the press release from CO:

HOUSTON, March 2 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL) today was rated the most admired airline among FORTUNE magazine's annual list of Most Admired Global Companies. The carrier ranked No. 1 in several key categories including innovation, employee talent, quality of management, use of corporate assets, social responsibility, long-term investment value and globalness. In addition, the airline ranked No. 45 on FORTUNE's Global Most-Admired "Top 50" list, which ranks companies in a wide variety of industries. Continental was the only U.S. carrier to rank on the "Top 50" list.

Continental was also rated the most admired international U.S. airline among FORTUNE magazine's annual list of America's Most Admired Companies. For the fifth consecutive year, Continental ranked No. 2 as the Most Admired U.S. Airline. Of the top-nine U.S. carriers ranked, Continental rated highest for the quality of its products and services. The Global Most Admired and America's Most Admired rankings are published in the magazine's March 8, 2004 issue and online at fortune.com .

"Continental continues to outperform its competition because of an unwavering focus on the fundamentals of our business -- to provide clean, safe and reliable air transportation," said Gordon Bethune, Continental's chairman and CEO. "That, coupled with the thousands of professional men and women that have made this airline great, is the basis of our success and the reason that our operation is considered one of the best in the world."

Corporate and airline executives, boards of directors and industry analysts ranked the U.S. airlines based on eight criteria: innovativeness, employee talent, use of corporate assets, social responsibility, quality of management, financial soundness, long-term investment value, and quality of products and services. Airlines appearing on the Global Most Admired lists were also ranked for globalness.

In January 2004, FORTUNE named Continental to its "100 Best Companies to Work For" list for the sixth consecutive year. The only passenger airline on the list, Continental ranked No. 62.

Continental Airlines is the world's seventh-largest airline with more than 2,300 daily departures to 126 domestic and 101 international destinations throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia. With 42,000 mainline employees, the airline has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and carries approximately 51 million passengers per year. For more company information, visit continental.com .

SOURCE Continental Airlines


The title of the press release is somewhat taken out of context, but on the whole, I say bravo, CO! It's no surprise that the quality of their products and services came in first place.
 
WindowSeat
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:40 am


From Worst to First, and now always First. Bravo, Gordo! (affectionately called 'Gordo' by my dear friend dave, before he flames me again for using his term), and the thousands of people at CO who make it happen everyday.

cheers
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
 
AA787
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 7:46 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:42 am

How did the rest of the list go?

AA787
ET In NYC
 
TonyBurr
Posts: 1059
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 1:00 pm

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:49 am

I just flew them Sunday from EWR-LIM and I have to agree, they are good! Great personal service, good meal, goot attitude. It goes to show arilines can still be a service industry, without crying about bankruptcy, lousy management, etc.

Good for CO!
 
COEWRNJ
Posts: 1000
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 9:46 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:57 am

Should we be surprised? They deserve it in every way..Go Gordo!! Keep on Rockin' CO!!
 
netdhaka
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:13 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:17 am

Good for CO. It would be nice to see how other global airlines did in those categories according to FORTUNE.
 
MarcoPolo747
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 7:37 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:33 am


Congratulations to CO ! It has been my airline of choice to the US since 2001 and I don't regret having changed to CO since then.
 
Delta767300ER
Posts: 2436
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:12 pm

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 7:44 am

I will say that I havent seen the level of service that Furtune has advisted about Continental, However the many times I have never had a bad experience. My only gripe with Continental is if you dont live in IAH, EWR, or CLE you usually have to make a Connection. I'm not saying thats a bad thing (Unless your going thru CLE  Big thumbs up) but for the routes I fly CO isnt practical. Another thing is it is kind of hard to get on one of their wide-body flights domestically. I'm a spoiled Delta 767 dude though!

-Delta767300ER
 
futureualpilot
Posts: 2402
Joined: Thu May 25, 2000 10:52 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:19 pm

Last time I flew CO I had a great experience with them. I can see how they would rank so high on the list.

"From Worst to First"....how true.
Life is better when you surf.
 
Guest

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:23 pm

Amazing how each publication comes up with a different #1 airline...
 
COIAH99
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:41 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:42 pm

And what other publications would that be IP?
Work Hard Fly Right
 
CO737800
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 6:53 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:45 pm

I have been on CO lots and I can tell you that no other US airline even comes close to the service you get on CO
 
SR 103
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 12:58 pm

Excellent news. Good to know CO is recognized for their excellent service. On the whole, most of their employees work hard to provide great experiences for us frequent flyers. No doubt CO keeps winning this category. Good job CO.

SR 103
 
Guest

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:04 pm

And what other publications would that be IP?

If you frequent boards like airliners.net, US Aviation, FlyerTalk, etc. you'll know that numerous publications, not just Forbes, have their own 'best airline,' 'most admired airline,' etc. survey. Qantas, Singapore Airlines and heck - even NW (a major Japanese publication voted NW the best USA airline) - have won awards.

I will maintain that well CO offers a very good in-flight product, they lack in most other areas.
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:06 pm

I find their fleet very boring

And what does that have to do with making a profit? Or having good service? Or running a good route structure? Or winning awards? Care to tell me?  Laugh out loud

You are going to fly a 767 or 777 unless you fly internationally!!!!

Maybe the fact that UA, DL, AA have a glut of widebodies and can't fill all of them is an essential reason why they can't come close to make an operating profit right now. CO? They're flyihg the right sized aircraft in the right markets, and are pretty close to break even. Maybe it's boring to you to fly a 738 EWR-LAX, but it makes operational and fiscal sense for the airline. Isn't that the bottom line?

I do not like their idea of 757 trans-Atlantic service.

Maybe you don't, but it's safe, and it obviously works. Tell me, what other American carries fly NYC-BHX? NYC-LIS? CLE-LGW? NYC-OSL? None you say? Well maybe that's because CO found a nice niche with the 75B to run routes that wouldn't be profitable with a 767 or 777.

CO's hub system does not make geographic sense for the majority of the country.

How is that? EWR: serves the east coast, is the main International gateway, and serves siginficant traffic to Florida. IAH: gateway to Mexico, has a lot of International service, and is a conduit from the southeast to the west coast. CLE: serves the Midwest in a way EWR and IAH cannot. Provides secondary routings to Florida and the west coast. The hub structure obviously works well, or else CO wouldn't be doing as well as it has.

CLE is all 737 and regional jet service.

 Laugh out loud So? Both fit the market perfectly. It's a mid-sized market, and you don't dump a load of widebodies in a mid-sized market when New York beckons to worldwide destinations.  Laugh out loud

IAH is to far south for most

It's not much farther south than ATL for DL, or DFW for AA. It serves more Mexican cities than any carrier; it has global service. If it's such a bad hub, why is it constantly expanding and getting bigger?

EWR does not serve much purpose other than servicing the New York and New Jersey population.

If you can't even see that it's the largest financial market in the world; it serves one of the largest tourist destinations in the world, in New York; it's got a base of 20 million people at least, who are from every part of the globe; and that every other airline would kill to have a hub like CO has in Newark, then you've missed the whole point of it. Newark is a gold mine for CO. Can you say the same thing for UA in Denver? I doubt it.

Please explain!!!! I live in Chicago and fly predominately UA. For example, I am going next week to LAX and look and look at all the aircraft options I have to choose from for this flight; 757, 767, 747-400 (soon), A319 and A320. Now that is exciting to me.

UA is in bankruptcy, is it not? UA is losing money head over heals, is it not? UA is in deep doo-doo, is it not?

If you want to make arguments, make them on common sense and facts, not how "exciting" the aircraft is. CO right now is the cream of the crop among the big 6, financially and operationally, and none of your "arguments" even address that fact.
 
UAORD
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:01 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 1:53 pm

Well I guess that Alpha1 did not read CNN today:


"Continental Airlines warned Tuesday its plans to break even or be profitable this year are "at great risk" due to high jet fuel and oil prices. A monumental problem out there for all the carriers," Continental's chief financial officer, Jeff Misner, said at an airline conference in New York. Shares of Continental (CAL: down $0.72 to $14.75, Research, Estimates), the nation's No. 5 airline, tumbled nearly 5 percent in active New York Stock Exchange trading.


Late on Monday, Continental reported that system-wide unit revenue, measuring how much money is taken in per available seat mile, fell an estimated 2.5 to 3.5 percent in February. UBS Warburg analyst Sam Buttrick called the results "disappointing" and well below his expectation of 2 percent growth. He widened his first-quarter estimated loss for Houston-based Continental to $1.20 per share from a previously estimated loss of 85 cents a share. "



New York:


CO will continue to lose market share to the likes of Jetblue and Song out of New York. JFK is a more important international port and served by many more international airlines than EWR and CO.



757 Transatlantic Service


CO has dropped the CLE-LGW flight, if there was really a fantastic demand for all the routes you listed above, other airlines would follow.



Domestic widebody service


The likes of DL, AA, and UA use widebody aircraft for domestic routes in part because of the large demand between their hubs, a little more than EWR-CLE or IAH-CLE. I realize they also ferry the aircraft for maintenance and rotation purposes.


Financial Standing

Unfortunately CO is heading like all the major airlines into BK. How many times has CO emerged from BK? Twice? I do not think DL or AA have previously filed for BK and nor had UA until this past summer. The high price of unions is what will drive the airlines out of business and as USAirways has learned, it is hard to have the lowest operating costs when you have a stong union and higher east-cost operating expenses. CO needs to maintain a hub on the west coast, that is where the population is shifting!!!!





Fleet


If CO operated a more fuel efficient fleet such as Airbus versus the 737 and MD-80, the higher cost of fuel would not be such an issue. CO still operate 767-200's (most airlines have retired the 200-series) and CO' were one of the last airlines to retire the DC-10. How old are CO's MD-80? No wonder they code-share with NWA.




.






[Edited 2004-03-03 06:02:31]

[Edited 2004-03-03 06:04:36]

 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:00 pm

This is almost getting to be as amusing as the Turkish to YYZ thread!!!
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:13 pm

Continental Airlines warned Tuesday its plans to break even or be profitable this year are "at great risk" due to high jet fuel and oil prices. A monumental problem out there for all the carriers,"

I read it. What do you think that will do to UA, who is still hemmhoraging money? CO can withstand that right now. Can UA, with that "exciting" fleet stand such huge increases in fuel? THAT'S a question you should ask, not what kind of planes they're fly in a given market.

CO will continue to lose market share to the likes of Jetblue and Song out of New York.

To some extent? Perhaps. But not to the extent it will hurt AA, since AA is directly competing aginst B6 at JFK. But CO is firmly entrenced in EWR, and that hub can withstand B6 and Song.

CO has dropped the CLE-LGW flight, if there was really a fantastic demand for all the routes you listed above, other airlines would follow.

CO has not dropped the flight. They run it during peak summer seasons, when there is the best chance to make a profit. Does it make sense to fly it during off-peak times, when a profit cannot be made? And why would other airlines follow? It's a medium sized market, and more than one flight wouldn't make much sense. The flight does very well in the summer-it's damn near full every day during the peak times. I know-I've worked that flight a lot. CO runs it exactly the way they should, in a soft economy. If demands picks up, they'll increase the service. But for now, it doesn't make sense economically to do so.

The likes of DL, AA, and UA use widebody aircraft for domestic routes in part because of the large demand between their hubs.

That may be, but the other reason they use them is that they have so many of the friggin' things, and they have to fly them somewhere. And that's just killing their bottom line right now. CO, on the other hand, instead of flying empty seats between EWR-LAX with a 767-400, is flying 738's, and optimizing their chance to make a profit. A "sexy" plane doesn't lead to profits, as you obviously haven't learned.

Unfortunately CO is heading like all the major airlines into BK.

Actually, CO will be the last major to do so, if they ever do. Operationally, they're heads and shoulders ahead of UA and their "exciting" fleet. CO is on the right track, and your pitiful little arguments don't change tha fact.

I won't further dignify the ignorance of what you say. You understand nothing about the economics of airlines. You understand little if anything about what makes an airline successful-it isn't big "exciting" aircraft, or exotic hubs, or running a widebody just to show what big ball-bearings you have. It's crafting a sensible business plan, and giving your employees the tools to execute that plan properly. CO has done that, which is why we are successful, and a carrier like UA is struggling.


[Edited 2004-03-03 06:16:27]
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:23 pm

Gordon Bethune is the man! I surprised though, I know CO is a great airline and my personal favorite, but to get this honor is great. Go Gordo!

Bethune 2004
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
Guest

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:24 pm

Oh boy, I'd defending CO - what have I reduced myself to?

Well I guess that Alpha1 did not read CNN today:

I guess Uaord doesn't realize that CO's stock has been on the rise lately, today's decrease was a routine/minor set back.

CO will continue to lose market share to the likes of Jetblue and Song out of New York. JFK is a more important international port and served by many more international airlines than EWR and CO.

- Song’s not expanding in the near future, so how could it steal CO’s markshare?

- If JFK is more of an “international port,” than how is B6 going to steal significant marketshare from CO? EWR is certainly more attractive than JFK to most people when it comes to getting to/from Manhattan vs. JFK.

- CO’s international presence has increased at EWR every year for awhile now.

CO has dropped the CLE-LGW flight, if there was really a fantastic demand for all the routes you listed above, other airlines would follow.

No, CLE-LGW will re-inaugurate this spring. The facet that CO was willing to drop routes like CLE-LGW and EWR-DUS should indicate that their other B752 services are stable… and AA will try B752 transatlantic service again this year.

The likes of DL, AA, and UA use widebody aircraft for domestic routes in part because of the large demand between their hubs…

The bulk of DL’s domestic widebody service is ex-ATL, a region in which they dominate (no surprise ATL is near the top in movements worldwide); more than 80% of their domestic flights ex-CVG, SLC and DFW (their other hubs) are operated with regional jets.

Other than repositional/Hawaii flights/three-cabin transcon, AA operates domestic widebodies on flights between MIA & the Northeast and LAX – that’s it.

Virtually all of UA’s widebody service is concentrated between its hubs/focus cities, Hawaii & transcontinental. The airline has indicated three-cabin 757 will replace its three-cabin 762 on transcontinental routes. If UA did not control the Gold Coast, you would see few domestic widebody flights.

How many times has CO emerged from BK? Twice?

Thank you for your armature analysis. The CO of today is not the CO of bankrupt yesteryear…

CO needs to maintain a hub on the west coast, that is where the population is shifting!!!!

While the bulk of the population, including key business cities, are still in the Eastern USA?

If CO operated a more fuel efficient fleet such as Airbus versus the 737 and MD-80, the higher cost of fuel would not be such an issue.

Huh? CO’s fleet is young & fuel-efficient… the MD-80s will be gone within a year, leaving the ~50 B733 as the only aircraft delivered before 1994, with most of the fleet delivered since 1998. The A319/A320 certainly isn’t that much more fuel efficient than the B737-300/500 and is comparable to the B737NG.

CO still operate 767-200's (most airlines have retired the 200-series) and CO' were one of the last airlines to retire the DC-10.

CO’s B762 are less than 4-years-old. Not a single USA-based passenger airline has retired the B762; AA, UA, DL and US still operate the majority of their fleet (and all operate more than CO’s 10). And CO retired the DC-10 within MONTHS of AA and UA…

How old are CO's MD-80?

About the same age as UA/US’s B733 and most of AA’s MD80.

No wonder they code-share with NWA.

This statement is just as pathetic as the rest of your argument.

[Edited 2004-03-03 06:27:57]
 
QIguy24
Posts: 2744
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:13 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 2:27 pm

I have flewn CO many times in the last few years I have been flying domestic in the US. And I must also agree that they provide very good service. That's for sure. Thumbs up for them  Big thumbs up

But I would say that I am also satisfied wit the other US carriers that I have tried.
 
COIAH99
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2003 3:41 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:00 pm

IndustrialPate and Alpha1

Thank you for your posts. I know you in particular IP are not much of a CO fan but I appreciate what you have said. I was on my way home from work when this thread took off( no pun intended!) and was about to respond to what Uaord had said. I'll save it for another time since you two did a great job!  Big thumbs up
Work Hard Fly Right
 
Russophile
Posts: 1304
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:22 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:48 pm

The most admired global airline as voted by Fortune magazine readers -- a readership based which is heavily slanted towards the American readership -- nearly 90% American circulation I believe (correct me if I am wrong). So of course you won't see a much better run international airline in there.

HOLD THE PRESSES!!!



What's this I see....

http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/23/news/companies/fortune_best/

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Wal-Mart Stores topped Fortune magazine's list of most admired companies for a second year in a row while International Business Machines made the list after a 17-year absence.

Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway (BRK.B: Research, Estimates) grabbed the No. 2 spot as Southwest Airlines (LUV: Research, Estimates) flew in at No. 3.

Hmmmmm.....
 
CLEfan
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 5:10 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:57 pm

Russophile,

If you read the CO press release it says specifically "Continental was also rated the most admired international U.S. airline..."

WN does not serve any international destinations, hence they cannot be the most admired international airline.
 
Russophile
Posts: 1304
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:22 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:03 pm

Yeah I know that -- but CO's doing a song and dance over the receival of this award doesn't mean diddly squat when they lag behind another airline in their most important market.

Anyway, magazine and internet surveys really don't mean a thing -- would be very interesting to see just how many non-American readers voted for CO though.

But it could have been worse -- they could have paid Skytrax, the joke of the industry, to put them in the top spot.  Big grin
 
ND
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:48 pm

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:10 pm

I think the fact that Continental has been bankrupt many times before helps them because they now have experience in getting themselves out of it. Whereas airlines such as United and American are coming across this hurdle for the first time and are dealing with it like amateurs.

The rising fuel costs is not unique to Continental, it is occuring to every American airline, so regardless of whether Continental is unexpectedly losing money, other carriers are also losing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since most other carriers have a plethora of widebodies, wouldn't they consume more fuel? Thus making the hightened fuel costs cause more damage to those airlines?

I don't know, I'm not an analyst here, but I am a frequent flyer of Continental, and a lot of people on this board are, if the airline sucks so damn much, then those of us who do fly Continental are just a bunch of walking, talking contradictions. Although contradiction is good for deconstructionism, I know for sure that Continental is one of the best airlines I've ever flown and it ranks second best on my list (right after Emirates).

ND
Hated By Many
Confronted By None
ND - Hated By Many, Confronted By None
 
Russophile
Posts: 1304
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:22 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:25 pm

Also, I do want to add -- I do believe CO is a reasonably well run airline -- I just don't believe that this is the case on a global scale, and from a magazine is not a valid way of doing this  Big grin
 
slider
Posts: 6805
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:51 pm

While it's tempting to also engage in an attempt to respond to UAORD, I'll digress. Great posts by Alpha and IP...kudos gents.

Instead, I'll celebrate the fact that Continental's product has held up remarkably well over the past near decade, and that's a direct reflection of not only all of my co-workers, but the awesome leadership that Gordon, Larry, et al have shown. Gordon just celebrated his 10 year anniversary at CO, and while he's on his way out, the leadership he has shown is something seldom shown at most companies.

It is an amazing testament to the operating integrity (as well as long term outlook) of CO that the airline has stayed atop these kind of lists, regardless of how much credence you put in them. CO is highly regarded, and also has stayed atop the Fortune Best Companies to Work For list for an unprecedented 5th CONSECUTIVE time, an accomplishment that surpasses WN (no disrespect intended).

I'm proud as hell to work for Continental, proud of our accomplishments, strategic direction, and operational achievement. Financially, we're sound but not out of the woods, but I'm optimistic. We're only as good as our last customer and our last flight.  Smile
 
cadet93
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:56 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:10 am

I agree.....CO is a great airline. They go almost every where you want to go out of EWR non-stop.....Makes for easier flying.
The thing I cant stand about them now, is the fact that they charge you $800.00 bucks to use your frequent flyer miles to upgrade to Business First now. They double the price of the ticket to fly in the front of the plane. Plus they want the miles on top of it. What is the sense of having miles to upgrade?......Not very Frequent Flyer friendly.......
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:44 am

They double the price of the ticket to fly in the front of the plane. Plus they want the miles on top of it. What is the sense of having miles to upgrade?......Not very Frequent Flyer friendly.......

For a product that, on an average Trans-Atlantic flight, is $3000 to $4500 ONE WAY, that doesn't sound like a bad deal, now does it?
 
AeroAussie
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 1999 10:47 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:28 am

BRAVO CO! I am a Silver Elite with CO, and for good reason. Their product is consistently good, they have brand-spanking new airplanes, the service is always good, the staff friendly, and they have always treated me well. They have yet to give me an excuse to take my business elsewhere, and I will continue to fly with CO over NW, AA, UA, etc. even if it means spending a few extra dollars. Keep up the good work CO! You have my praises!

Happy Flying (well, if you're on CO...)
-Nick
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:45 am

alpha1,
your postings on this topic grow old, you claim CO is such an awesome carrier and that should speak for itself, why is it that you always have to sling mud when someone doesn't agree with you? uaord, made a comment and said what he said, you came back and said " at least were not in BK" don't compare apples to oranges, defend your carrier without comparing it to a bigger US carrier.

what does this award get you? It isn't filling your planes, CO average per plane is what? 70%?

you claim we don't have all those friggin widebodies? Your right on that, and like those who have responded would rather fly a 757 or 777 than a 73G. Now I know this forum makes up like .001% of the rest of the flying public, but you aren't filling any better on your planes as AA is on theirs OR NWA is on theirs.

You guys only posted a 43 million dollar profit a few months back, because you guys got a one time kick back, lets see how well you do now, you are such a smaller airline(#7) that YOU should be making a profit, you have such an awesome CEO(for now)

maybe if you guys didn't lose DEN, you might have a better route structure, but what am I? Were in BK.
thought I'd be you to the punch

UAL 777 CONTRAIL

 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:00 am

CO has some strange habits.

Being Houston based we sent our travel bid out to UA, CO, AA, and DL for consideration of domestic travel. Basically, we pay full or minor discount Y but get space positive F seats. It's a good deal for the carrier--but CO would not deal. AA was selected.

International travel was sent out to BA, AF, CO, and LH. BA had been the legacy travel partner for five years. We asked for space positive discounted C tickets worldwide. This time, however, CO was the winner.

The first five times we tried to use them, we couldn't get seats--even though they were clearly available in their system (and onboard).

Additionaly, we were told that they would not accrue the same mileage as normal Biz First tickets because they were discounted (sure, maybe 15%!)

It took us about three weeks of this to (happily) move back to BA for another year.

It's strange since my travel tops out at about $14,000/monthly...and I'm only one of ten in my group that travels....plus several hundred other atty's.
 
Unicorn
Posts: 101
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:57 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:32 am

I note that it was voted #1 by a US based magazine, and voted the top US airline.

I have some issues with a US magazine that selects a US based airline as the "Best in the world" when airlines such as Singapore, Cathay, Qantas, Emirates and others consistently deliver outstanding service, excellent value, regular annual profits, fleet refurbisments and expansions, and innovative offerings (SQs Singapore - LA and soon Singapore - NY services for example).

This is not a "bash the US" post, I work for a US company and reside in the US for significant parts of the year, but I have issues with the US centric view of the world.

Its like the Baseball "World Series", which is only contested by US teams. Same with American football or ice hockey. "World Champions" claims only count when you compete against the rest of the world.

When seeing a US claim to be the best in the "world", caveat emptor.

Unicorn
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 2997
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:35 am

IndustrialPate-

WOW! I could not have said it better myself! You nailed everything right on the head.

Good for Continetnal, they really deserve this accolade!

JBLU
 
klwright69
Posts: 2314
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:31 am

Oh my goodness, Ual777contrail, you crack me up! That was one of the funniests post I have ever read on here.

"Alpha 1, your postings on this topic grow old,"

But you read and respond to them......

"You claim CO is such an awesome carrier and that should speak for itself, why is it that you always have to sling mud when someone doesn't agree with you?"

Sling mud? Which part of his post are you referring to? I read it many times and I couldn't find it. It seemed completely factual and straightforward. I didn't see any name calling or putdowns.....

Ual777contrail continues.....
"aord, made a comment and said what he said, you came back and said "at least were not in BK" don't compare apples to oranges, defend your carrier without comparing it to a bigger US carrier."

I don't get that at all. No one can comment that UAL is in chapter 11 unless you are from a carrier as big as UAL? What does "bigness" have to do with anything? Huh??

"what does this award get you? It isn't filling your planes, CO average per plane is what? 70%?"

No one said it was "getting" them anything. Why don't you research the load factor and come back and share it when you know. OK?

"You claim we don't have all those friggin widebodies?"

He did? not just widebodies, but "friggin" widebodies?

"Your right on that, and like those who have responded would rather fly a 757 or 777 than a 73G. Now I know this forum makes up like .001% of the rest of the flying public but you aren't filling any better on your planes as AA is on theirs OR NWA is on theirs."

I keep trying to figure this fixation with aircraft size. I have never quite gotten it. As you correctly noted, just about nobody in the real world really cares. But ok, whatever.

"You guys only posted a 43 million dollar profit a few months back, because you guys got a one time kick back, lets see how well you do now, you are such a smaller airline(#7)"

Only? What is wrong with that? What was everyone else's profit? It must be all downhill for CO here on out I guess. CO is the #7 carrier? That is a new one. What is your source?

"maybe if you guys didn't lose DEN, you might have a better route structure, but what am I? Were in BK."

Well if they didn't lose DEN they probably would not have stayed in business let alone have a "better route structure" (whatever that means). Has their current route structure somehow been failing them?

"but what am I?"

Yes, what are you? Go ahead and answer your own question.

Were in BK."

No, really?.....you don't say!?

"thought I'd be you to the punch"

Wow! you got everyone with this one! Wow!






 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:55 am

alpha1,
your postings on this topic grow old, you claim CO is such an awesome carrier and that should speak for itself, why is it that you always have to sling mud when someone doesn't agree with you?


Show me the mud, my friend? There's no "mud" up there. I responded with facts for someone who is obvious ignorant about CO. I never said anything derrogatory about that person-just they are mis-informed, and didn't really know what they were talking about. So "show me the mud".

defend your carrier without comparing it to a bigger US carrier.

Well, gee, I defended it comparing it to some of the other Big Six. CO is part of that Big Six. Fair enough?

Have you looked at where your carrier and mine are lately? It was funny to you, wasn't it, in the 80's and 90's, when CO was the butt of jokes. Now, look at where UA and CO are. CO is breaking even, where UA is struggling mightily. CO is highly regareded, whereas UA's rep has taken some hits in recent years. I sense a bit of jealousy in you. I surely don't feel good about what's going on at UA-I've been through hard times with CO, and it'd be a shame if UA weren't around. But again, argue FACTS, not your own personal bias because you hate CO.

You guys only posted a 43 million dollar profit a few months back.

Yes, we did. And show me another major that made as much? Again, check your own company's bottom line lately? $43 million, anyway you can get it in this economic climate, is like scaling Everest. I don't see UA making that much these days, do I?

maybe if you guys didn't lose DEN, you might have a better route structure,

Maybe because YOU'RE in DEN, and we aren't, is one reason why YOU'RE in Chapter 11, and we aren't? Ever think of that?  Smile

ROTFL. Maybe had we stayed in DEN, we'd have been out of business, losing in excess of $100 million annualy there. DEN was not going to serve CO well as long as another Major-UA-has a hub there. DEN cannot support two full-sized hubs for majors, period. If I have to explain that to you, you haven't done your homework.

CO wouldn't be winning all these awards if it wasn't doing things right. Maybe that's what irks you most of all.

[Edited 2004-03-04 04:06:11]

[Edited 2004-03-04 04:06:47]
 
ual777contrail
Posts: 2914
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2002 11:33 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:12 pm

apha1,
There you go again using UAL as your bench mark, it is nice to see UAL has a place in your argument. You brought up UAL because of a guys user name.

once the dust settles and the tears have tried from laughter I can respond.

where is my carrier? And where is yours?

we are still here, aren't going anywhere. UAL's rep has taken hits? From people on this forum, we still are filling planes, we are in BK we aren't going to show a profit until we emerge.

You will losing you CEO soon, we just got one who has turned our company around. WE On this forum don't know what UAL is doing to restructure, you don't either alpha1, copy that tango bravo? CO Has always been the brunt of jokes even by HP employees who work them.

you have to state facts now alpha, when did I say I didn't like CO? All I said was don't use UAL as your bench mark when describing a small carrier like CO and a huge one like UAL, jealous of what? CO? Because a magazine named them #1 that is awesome, credit to them, but I would rather be with UAL right now or even Dec 12th of 2002, UAL will emerge and once again you will be the brunt of all the jokes, and will continue your struggle through the industry when uncle gordo leaves.so back to the main topic, because someone's name has a ua in it, don't assume that they are comparing airlines, and we all know what happens when you assume, eh, alpha 1



UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
dc10hound
Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2000 4:18 pm

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:23 pm

I guess Uaord doesn't realize that CO's stock has been on the rise lately, today's decrease was a routine/minor set back.

Whoa, hold on thar!

I own stock in that airline. It was down over seven per cent on Monday. Closed at $14.60 today. Fifty-Two week high was $21.70 in October.

At $15.62 a share AMR stock is doing better than CAL lately.

Which is OK, I own stock in that airline, too. Silly me.

 Nuts

And no, I'm not about to sell either....
"Eagles soar. But weasels never get sucked into jet intakes.."
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:26 pm

,
There you go again using UAL as your bench mark.


Well, let's see: they both had hubs in DEN at one time; they both have been through Chapter 11. Well, UA isn't thorugh it yet-still praying for Uncle Sam to bail them out; they're both considered one of the Six major hub carriers in the U.S. So, why not compare them? Because UA is bigger? Doesn't make much sense to me.  Smile

You brought up UAL because of a guys user name.

No, I brought them up with you, because YOU work for them? As for the original poster, I only used UA as a comparison, because UA is having major problems right now, and CO is, relatively speaking, doing very well, thank you.
I could have used AA, or DL, but I simply chose CO. Obviously, that bothers you for some reason, or does the truth simply hurt?

where is my carrier? And where is yours?

Yours is in Chapter 11, awating a government bailout. Ours made a small profit last year. And even if it was from write-offs, or anything else, in this day and age, a profit looks mighty damned good, doesn't it?

we are still here, aren't going anywhere.

I hope you're right. I certainly don't want to see the good folks at UA lose their jobs. I really don't, so we're in agreement there.

CO Has always been the brunt of jokes even by HP employees who work them.

See, now your real feelings come out. You still see CO as a joke, even though CO turned it around a decade ago, became profitable, became an consistently reliable airline. You still see us as a "joke"? Why is that? Again, care to look at where our two carriers are lately?

Want to know about HP? In 1998, all but two of the stations that led our system in complaints were stations where CO outsourced the ground operations to HP. When we took back over our Ops, the complaints about "our" service in stations like PHX, LAS, MKE, SEA dried up.

The CO stations handling HP were always garnering the praises of HP. But why we're arguing that, I don't know. It's irrelevant.

Maybe we're the butt of jokes, but perhaps UA IS the joke, and that's what gnaws at you.

you have to state facts now alpha, when did I say I didn't like CO?

ROTFL. Do you have to? It's obvious! I guess it was easy to make fun of others when you were on top, but now that you've hit the bottom of the barrel, and have to bounce back, it's easier to try and make fun of those who are doing better than you.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to show me the mud.


[Edited 2004-03-04 04:27:48]
 
B747-437B
Posts: 8777
Joined: Thu May 30, 2002 6:54 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:28 pm

CO Has always been the brunt of jokes

CO may have been the brunt of jokes.

Alas UAL IS the biggest joke today.

Spare us the crap about UAL having turned around. To quite Jerry Maguire, "Show me the money". As long as UA is losing money and CO is making it, the joke is on you bud.
"The A340-300 may boast a long range, but the A340 is underpowered" -- Robert Milton, CEO - Air Canada
 
Guest

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:11 pm

For a product that, on an average Trans-Atlantic flight, is $3000 to $4500 ONE WAY, that doesn't sound like a bad deal, now does it?

Sorry Alpha 1, but this is one of my biggest complains with CO. There are many passengers who’ve paid additional monies for upgradeable fares (with the intent on upgrading with miles if inventory is released) and others who’ve placed themselves on a waiting list that are willing to pay + use miles to upgrade… yet many of these consumers never travel in the BusinessFirst cabin while non-revenue passengers do so. I think it’s despicable. I believe that every revenue passenger who has the miles and fare class (or is willing to pay) should be able to upgrade to the premium cabin in lieu of a non-revenue passenger.

Sorry, but quite frankly it pisses me off that a $1,200 “T” fare to AMS during peak isn’t upgradeable without paying additional fees, and even if I’m willing to pay those fees & miles, I still might not make it to the premium cabin… yet a 19-year-old CO “ramper” at GRR pays ~$150 or so and gets up there instead. Meanwhile, you blast me because I’ve paid only a fraction of CO’s rape fare & proclaim the employee paying practically NOTHING deserving.

Work hard, fly right.

Ridiculous!
 
UAORD
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:01 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:11 pm

As a frequent flyer who flies 100,000 + miles per year, domestic widebody service is important. Meetings often end early or are cancelled at the last minute. Even with status you have a hell of a better chance getting on a flight standby on a UA, DL, or AA widebody than you do on a CO 737 or RJ.


Alpha1 how many miles or trips do you fly per year? it seems to me as though you never leave the computer. People talk about great CO service and friendly desk agents. I guess CO must put on an extra smile when they hand out peanuts and coke. I can not remember the last time I talked to a gate agent? You print your boarding card on-line or from a Kiosk and board the plane when your row is called.


The majority of the people on this website, are frequent flyers who enjoy different aircraft and their configurations, we are not claiming to be financial wizards in the airline industry unlike you who claim that CO is in far better financial standing than the other airlines and will not file for BK. "CO will be the last major to do so, if they ever do. Operationally, they're heads and shoulders ahead of UA History has a way of repeating itself!!! The financial side of the business is left to the airlines, as a FF we chose the flights, routes, and aircraft that make the most sense to us.


P.S. You must know the financial secret as to why CO was the only airline to continue to buy the 757. You would think that such a strong and important airline such as CO would not allow Boeing to halt the production of such an aircraft?








[Edited 2004-03-04 05:15:11]

 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:12 pm

Well, IP, we've agreed to disagree on that one, so I'll let you have the last, definative word on the subject.  Smile
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:16 pm

As a frequent flyer who flies 100,000 + miles per year, domestic widebody service is important.

Maybe it is, but 1. CO does not have the plethora of widebodies that UA, AA, DL and NW have, therefore prudence dictates that they have to pick and choose-wisely-where to put them, is that not so? If CO had double the widebodies they have now, you'd see more on domestic markets. But CO doesn't, therefore we put them where they're needed. And, actually, after 9/11 and the economic downturn, that under-abundance of widebodies and the presence of RJ's that you seemingly loath may have been a savior for CO. Smart business doesn't mean putting a plane somewhere because it's sexy? It means deploying the resources you have with intelligence and prudence.

As for the rest, you're throwing sticks and stones now. I'm not going to respond to those. CO has been successful since 1994 by being consistent, and being smart. I can't help it if you can't see that.
 
SR 103
Posts: 1618
Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2000 6:19 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:49 pm

For a product that, on an average Trans-Atlantic flight, is $3000 to $4500 ONE WAY, that doesn't sound like a bad deal, now does it?

HELL! For a one way that is too much. Especially for the likes of any US airline. And don't give me any of the "CO is better than anyone else" excuse. We all have our opinions and in mine CO does not hold a candle when compared to the European or Asian airlines.

This is not meant to be a flame or anything. I fly a lot of CO out of choice, but I don't think the service warrants such a fare when I could easily buy a ticket on any of the International carriers that have better service. Sorry Alpha 1, I respect CO a lot, but that is not a cheap fare.

SR 103
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:56 pm

HELL! For a one way that is too much.

Maybe so. I know it is for me.  Big grin But people DO pay it. I remember one agent at our counter got TWO paid upgrades in one day-the guys shelled out about $3400 apiece to sit up there. If the market will bear it, then it's not overpriced-at least for some people, I guess.  Smile

And don't give me any of the "CO is better than anyone else" excuse.

I don't plan to. But since 1994, CO has been pretty smart and pretty prudent in how it's gone about it's business. Gordon and Greg went back to some basics, and gave the employees a lot of latitude in telling them what would work, and it's pretty much history now, what has happened. CO may not be "better" than anyone else, but I'm proud of what we've accomplished, and I will say we're as consistent as anyone out there at this time.

We all have our opinions and in mine CO does not hold a candle when compared to the European or Asian airlines.

Maybe they don't, adn I cannot speak to that. But someone obviously thinks they can. And in stacking them up against the U.S. carriers, I think they're right there at the top in regards to service and consistency.

Sorry Alpha 1, I respect CO a lot, but that is not a cheap fare.

No, it's not-not the full fare. I was more referring to using miles and $800 for that $3000 to $4000 seat. That still sounds like a good deal to me, even if you and I agree that perhaps that seat isn't worth that.
 
Guest

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:32 pm

…domestic widebody service is important.

Your reasoning is bogus. Let’s look at the widebody flying of AA, UA and DL:

UA:
* transcontinental - and FWIW, reputable sources are indicating UA will begin utilizing three-class B757 (although J on the 757 will be a step-up from domestic F)
* to set-up intercontinental flights, e.g. ORD-MIA-GRU (although this practice will likely end when the MIA gateway is eliminated)
* to shuttle passengers between its hubs/gateways

Those ORD-SFO/LAX B777 and B744 are carrying numerous persons onward to Hawaii, Australia and many small, Western cities. I challenge you to prove to me that a B777 ORD-LAX carrying more than a hundred passengers onward to Hawaii, Australia or San Diego is easier to standby compared to a CO B757 IAH-LAX that has maybe two or three passengers connecting to Eagle.

AA:
* transcontinental
* repositional flights (e.g. the B777 between DFW/ORD)
* between its hubs/focus cities
* MIA to the Northeast or LAX (sometimes SFO) - with little frequency

Again, not a very extensive network… and again, the only

DL:
* from their ATL SuperHub to many large cities
* between its hubs/focus cities
* some transcontinental
* some odds-and-ends

The only airline to extensively use Domestic Widebodies… but again, their ATL hub is so huge (ATL is a valid connecting point on most fares to, say DTW-CHI and DTW-NCY) they get the passengers.

CO:
* between IAH/EWR
* some transcontinental (two-three daily EWR-LAX)
* some flights ex-IAH to LAX and sometimes SFO
* some flights ex-EWR and IAH to Florida

Now again, tell me why CO’s so weak in this department… THEY AREN’T.



* set-up intercontinental flights (e.g. ORD-MIA-GRU - this will soon end)
* to sh

- - -
The majority of the people on this website, are frequent flyers…

They are? What are you smokin’?

.… unlike you who claim that CO is in far better financial standing than the other airlines and will not file for BK.

But CO is in far better financial shape than AA, UA, DL and US. So what’s your point?

The financial side of the business is left to the airlines, as a FF we chose the flights, routes, and aircraft that make the most sense to us.

So you’re saying that when somebody comes on here and says “I love Continental Airlines! They’re the bestest airline in the world! They should buy B744 with PTV and fly them between PSP and LAX because I frequent that route and love widebodies and PTVs and Boeings!!!” and Alpha 1 explains why this will not happen, he should be knocked?

You must know the financial secret as to why CO was the only airline to continue to buy the 757. You would think that such a strong and important airline such as CO would not allow Boeing to halt the production of such an aircraft?

What the heck are you trying to say anyway? CO has half the B757 fleet of UA, a third of DL’s and almost less than 100 less than AA… they ordered the aircraft about 5 years after AA and DL, and spread their orders out… CO actually wanted to convert most of its remaining B757 to B737NG, but Boeing refused them to do so b/c the aircraft were too far in production…

No offense but when you don't have an argument, don't argue.
 
bigb
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:30 pm

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:48 pm

You must know the financial secret as to why CO was the only airline to continue to buy the 757. You would think that such a strong and important airline such as CO would not allow Boeing to halt the production of such an aircraft?

Dude, CO bought the 757 because it worked with their business plan, and still does. What type of problem do you have with that. Delta and Northwest both ordered 757s late down the line. So don't give us that CO would not allow boeing to halt production of the 757 crap. As far as they care, CO can careless about Boeing halting 757 line. Hence, converted 757-300 orders to 737-800s.
ETSN Baber, USN
 
Alpha 1
Posts: 12343
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 12:12 am

RE: CO Ranked No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:21 pm

UAL777contrail, I'm not "attacking" you on here, and I've yet to see any mud that you've been talking about.

My point is this: you and a few others on here are attacking CO, and calling it a sub-par airline for reasons that don't have anything to do with what kind of airline it is. Fleet size does not make a good carrier; running widebodies in certain markets does not make a good carrier; hub location, while it can be imporation, in and of itself, does not make a good carrier. It's how you manage all those assets, and to put them into a smart business plan that makes sense for that carrier, is what makes a good carrier. And, whether you and UAord like it or not, CO HAS made wise business decisions that have made them a good carrier since 1994. That is undeniable.

I have no problem if someone doesn't like the fact CO doesn't run widebodies transcon. If that's their preference, that's fine. I have no problem with IP not liking some parts of the FF program. That's his perrogative, and, although we disagree on it sometimes, I respect him for it because he makes his arguments based on facts, as he sees them. But I do have a problem with what you and UAord did on here, because all your arguments and "facts" are based on things that make absolutely no difference whether a carrier is successful or not.

Arguing about their service is one thing; arguing because they are doing things right vis-a-vis fleet and routes, that IS keeping them competitive and close to profitability is a non-starter.

Who is online