Thrust
Topic Author
Posts: 2585
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UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:32 pm

When I saw photos of UAL 777s in storage, I was shocked. Even the prototype 777 is still relatively young compared to other types. Does UAL plan to put these birds back into service, or are the 744s proving to be of more use to United than 777s. Apparently, I heard that the idea that two engines are better than four in terms of fuel economics cannot be generalized. Was I shocked to find out that the 744s were more economical than some 777s to operate. Since UA is apparently reactivating many of their gorgeous 744s, does this mean curtains for the ones in storage? Or will these 777 birds be returned to the skies to fly the many good years they have left on them?
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:44 pm

THRUST,
good thread....i was in gyr this past weekend....ual has 9 777 out here.....when ual went to judge genes courtroom in chicago...ual renegotiated the rates on all the a/c they have ...it turns out post 9-11 there is a glut of 400s and ual was able to op the 400 cheaper vs the 777 due to lower lease rates than the 777.....even though gyr has no ua 747s......there are alot of late model a/c that i wish were doing rev runs for the major lines in the usa.....my 2 pence
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
na
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:21 pm

Some of these UA 777s will no be reactivated whatever happens to UA. They are for sale or lease via Boeings website. A few are wfu for a year already (even almost new ERs since last summer!). Seems airlines are not queuing for 777s even anymore...
The 777-200ER costs about as much as a 744, and so will be the leasing rates. If you can fill them, a 744 is surely the better deal!
 
ual777
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:49 pm

Na, I believe that MAY be incorrect. I have heard from someone at UA that they are sitting in the desert until their leases expire so that they can hand them back to the lessor because the leases on them are sky-high from what I understand.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
QIguy24
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:53 pm

I wonder if cimber Air will buy som of them. hehe
It would be great.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
 
slider
Posts: 6806
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Wed Mar 03, 2004 10:14 pm

I hate to think of how bad those aircraft lessors are getting screwed. EEK!
 
Thrust
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:24 am

I hate to think of how aircraft as valuable as these are put in storage like they are as old as the 762s. N205UA, one of the 777s in storage, is a 772ER, probably not more than seven or eight years old. The Boeing 777 is one of the most remarkable jetliners ever produced, reknown for its great fuel-efficiency, high passenger capacity, and advanced digital qualities. They are treasures that should not be sent to the desert or stored at any time now. Aircraft like the 777 probably could remain highly operated by passenger aircraft for up to well over 20 years into the future I would imagine.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
EMBQA
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:42 am

I hate to think of how bad those aircraft lessors are getting screwed

Correct me if I'm wrong....... but stored in the desert or flying the Friendly Skies, UAL is writing a big check every month on all those jets..?
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
ual777contrail
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:24 pm

EMB,
I was just going to say that, I wonder if there is a clause in the contract that says if parked it is at half price? I couldn't see them parking the planes and not running them to NRT or LHR.

Maybe the 777man knows, he has a lot of knowledge on this topic.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:49 pm

I have always been oon the understanding that UAL doesn't lease aircraft. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, they may finance them, but I didn't think they leased them.
 
UA744Flagship
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:06 pm

I don't know what the current breakdown is regarding the proportion of UA leased to owned a/c, as the BK process secion 11whatever is still going on....

But I do know that pre-Ch 11 most of the 777s were owned. The remainder were on capital leases.

EMBQA:
"Correct me if I'm wrong....... but stored in the desert or flying the Friendly Skies, UAL is writing a big check every month on all those jets..?"

The reason they are parked, regardless of whether the a/c is owned or not, is the same reason other relatively new a/c are parked.

It may be better to eat the fixed, monthly costs than have to incur additional losses by way of operating costs being more than the revenue generated by that aircraft.

Basically the fixed costs of an operating lease, capital lease, or financing arrangement are sunk costs...spilt milk.

So why operate the aircraft if you're sure you're going to lose money with it?
no wire hangers!
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:29 pm

Sad really to see such beautiful and modern airliners rotting away in the desert.



CanadianNorth

[Edited 2004-03-04 06:29:44]
What could possibly go wrong?
 
LAXintl
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Thu Mar 04, 2004 3:59 pm

Within the BK process companies can reject leases they deem no longer required. Thus many of the parked aircraft have leases that were rejected and currently cost United zero dollars. The are aircraft thus parked pending further disposition from their leasing companies or banks involved.

Some other stored aircraft however are still in the midst of talks regarding their leases, while the last group are parked as they require maintenance checks. Why outlay millions in expenditures to perform a check if the aircraft is really not needed for the current schedule.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
The777Man
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:27 pm

UA's intranet, Skynet, doesn't list any 777s as "nonoperative". N766UA, N777UA (777-222s), N789UA, N205UA, N207UA and N208UA (777-222/ER) are apperently no longer a part of the UA fleet and appears to have been on capital leases and were rejected. Very sad to see this happen, particulary with N777UA since that operated the first ever 777 revenue flight.

I do agree that it may be possible for UA to negotiate lower rates for these 777s and perhaps get them back in a while, not sure how likely that is.

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
The777Man
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage:UPDATE

Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:41 pm

Hi !

UPDATE! Noticed in Skynet that UA now lists N777UA as being in the non-operative fleet but at least it's in the UA fleet. Probably going back into service. Perhaps more will be brought back ?

The777Man
Boeing 777s flown: UA, TG, KE, BA, CX, NH, JD, JL, CZ, SQ, EK, NG, CO, AF, SV, KU, DL, AA, MH, OZ, CA, MS, SU, LY, RG, PE, AZ, KL, VN, PK, EY, NZ, AM, BR, AC, DT, UU, OS, AI, 9W, KQ, QR, VA, JJ, ET, TK, PR, BG, T5, CI, MU and LX.. Further to fly.. LH 777
 
Thrust
Topic Author
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:45 pm

Thanks you to all the particaptors in this discussion. Hope everything turns out OK with the UA situation, and hopefully all will be brought back into service either with UA or with other airlines. Though I would really like UA to take them back, servicing any airline is much better for these aircraft than being sent to their graves at so young, modern, and useful.
Fly one thing; Fly it well
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:55 pm

Is there a possibility that the ones that have been taken "out-of" the fleet getting their respective lease cost's brought down and returned to the fleet, kind of saying we don't need the plane so you can have it back, but i'm sure we could find a use for it if you wanted to bring the cost down?
 
ktliem@YVR
Posts: 158
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:42 pm

5 B777s for sale or lease have been listed for some time at http://www.airtrading.com/jta.htm#b777

"B777-222 Aircraft available for immediate sale or lease. PW4077 engines. Manf. 1995. TT=33K, TC=6.5Kcy.

B777-222ER Four aircraft available for immediate sale or lease. PW4090 engines. Manf. 1997-99. TT=16-28Khr, TC=2.6-4.0Kcy."


These are definitely UA's B777s. Anybody knows who the seller is? Is it United or is the lessor?
 
asuflyer05
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RE: UAL Boeing 777s In Storage

Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:24 pm

I hate to think of how bad those aircraft lessors are getting screwed

Correct me if I'm wrong....... but stored in the desert or flying the Friendly Skies, UAL is writing a big check every month on all those jets..?

If UA has not rejected the leases on these 777s via BK then they are actually doing the lessors a favor. Leasing is based on the depreciation of the equipment being leased.

Less flying/cycles = Less Depreciation

So when the lessor originally leased the aircraft to UA they estimated the value of the aircraft at lease termination. Now the aircraft will have a higher residual value at the end of the lease.

Matt

Note the time this is posted. Can anyone else tell it's mid-term time?  Nuts