Alitalia744
Topic Author
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:19 am

So with Alitalia publically stating intent to order the 7E7, do you think they'll be the first airline to order?
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
netdhaka
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 2:13 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:26 am

Few weeks ago I was hearing that LH would be the launch customer and now Alitalia. Has anybody placed any order for 7e7 yet?
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:29 am

Alitalia will probably have 10 new B773 soon and some B7E7, but it will be not the airline that will make the order, but the Financial Holding 'Sviluppo Italia' that it should then lease at AZ those planes according to some 'good' sources Smile
 
backfire
Posts: 3467
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:01 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:29 am

Alitalia has also publicly stated that it will be profitable...still waiting for that one, too.
 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:32 am

Alitalia has also publicly stated that it will be profitable...still waiting for that one, too.

True, and what about LH? Anyway probably you didn't follow the last news in AZ..
 
Jean Leloup
Posts: 1953
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 10:46 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:52 am

No thin wrong with writing a bit of Italian, but please provide a translation for we ignorant non-italian speakers, please. Otherwise you are breaking the rules. Can't have secret conversations starting up!
Next flight.... who knows.
 
Alitalia744
Topic Author
Posts: 3777
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 8:22 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:59 am

Jean.

My bad!

Translation:

I hope Alitalia buys the new 773 and 7E7...

-G
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
behramjee
Posts: 4323
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 4:56 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:30 am

The new CEO of AZ and the FCO Govt said that AZ will be looking to add 10 B 773ERs and 10 B 7E7s over a period of time and restart flights to prospective destinations with a bright future such as LAX-CHINA-CENTRAL AMERICA etc and increase frequencies on high demand-high yielding routes.

I think that AZ will order the BASIC B 7E7 version as it will ultimately be replacing their entire B 767 fleet by 2010 I guess??? Plus the price tag for launch customers for the B 7E7 program is going to be around $ 100 million per airplane compared to the $ 125 million official price tag I bet!!! So its a dam good deal-investment to make!!!
 
Alitalia7e7
Posts: 184
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:10 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:26 am

It looks as if the Italian Government is looking at the 777 and 7e7 options as per this article - AGI Online.

ALITALIA: NEW INDUSTRIAL PLAN SETS SIGHTS ON MORE HAULS
(AGI) – Rome, Italy, Mar. 3 – Boosting long haul, increased domestic flight quotas – through trading with other operators – renegotiating route repartitions with Air France toward Italy: these were the guidelines concerning Alitalia’s industrial plan. According to anonymous sources the company is looking into low impact negotiated solutions: solidarity contracts, subsidised layoffs and golden handshakes. With regards to boosting fleet numbers Alitalia is looking at buying 10 long haul wide bodies: either Boeing’s 777 or the super efficient 7E7 "Dreamliner” which has fuel requirements 20 pct lower than its competitors. With regards to increasing domestic quotas Alitalia appears to have shifted emphasis from Meridiana or similar small airlines to the acquiring domestic flight seats on other airlines. The decision appears preferable to other forms of commercial agreement such as "code sharing". A “buying seats” arrangements increases Alitalia’s offer increases feedering and diverts domestic passengers onto its international flights. In order to not lose its share in the feedering market Alitalia may opt to renegotiate its agreements with Air France concerning flight between Italy and France. Negotiations would focus on handing Alitalia a majority share of the hub to hub market, with France in charge of short hauls between small Italian airports and France. Alitalia risks losing out, with such an arrangement, on intercontinental flights.
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 10:25 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:43 pm

LH has made their disinterest clear.

...with the sidestick challenge being Boeing's only out.

N
 
Greg
Posts: 5539
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:11 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:50 pm

I think this is easy.....Emirates.
Right size, right time....and they capture more headlines.
With ONLY $22 Billion of aircraft on backlog...they can order all they want.
They will long be out of business before the first 7e7 gets delivered.
The only mystery will be 'who' will get their delivery slots.
 
paxromana
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:51 pm

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 6:32 pm

Please....any drawings, virtual photo and so on about 7E7!!!
Grateful!!!
 
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 17053
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Thu Mar 04, 2004 7:31 pm

Gigneil said:
...with the sidestick challenge being Boeing's only out.



Depends on the size of the order. If it's 50+, MAYBE Boeing will build a sidestick version. LH is a prestigious carrier to have as launch customer.

This can be compared to the 767's with a flight engineer's station. I think it was Air NZ. Anyway it was a union requirement and Boeing complied.


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
cloudy
Posts: 1613
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:23 pm

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:46 am

Depends on the size of the order. If it's 50+, MAYBE Boeing will build a sidestick version. LH is a prestigious carrier to have as launch customer.
-----

That all depends. Gordon Bethune said that Boeing should politely refuse to make as many custom modifications to airplanes as it has in the past. The resulting commonality would keep resale values up and manufacturing costs down. Maybe the relatively low announced price means Boeing is following Bethune's advice, and is intending to save costs by offering fewer variations on the basic design.

 
VCE
Posts: 575
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:31 pm

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:48 am

I think that my thread "The new Industrial Plan of Alitalia" can help the discussion.
 
bluethunder
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:22 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:46 am

Greg:

Emirates going out of Business - dream on. You obviously have no clue as to how popular that airline is. Over ambitious may be, but bankrupt - No way.
Emirates is tied to the growth of Dubai and i cant think of a place that is growing as fast as Dubai.

And yeah i do agree with you - they might want to be a launch customer just to grab head lines.
 
OmShanti
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:27 am

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:51 am

What is the actual size difference between the 7E7 and a 747. Is it actually bigger and longer? Does it hold more passangers?

THanks

Omshanti
 
AOMlover
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2001 6:03 pm

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:40 am

Wow ! a 7E7 would rock in the Alitalia colors !


MyAviation.net photo:
Click here for bigger photo!
Photo © AAA Clement Guivarc h

 
planemaker
Posts: 5411
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2003 12:53 pm

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:10 am

Just a technical side note... no one will be able to order a 7E7 until the engine suppliers have been selected. So, wait until after Boeing has selected who will be allowed to hang their engines under the wing before you hear a first order.

By the way, Boeing has said that they would like the engines from the selected manufacturers to be interchangeable in order to help increase the residual value of the 7E7.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 8544
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

Fri Mar 05, 2004 9:11 am

What is the actual size difference between the 7E7 and a 747. Is it actually bigger and longer? Does it hold more passangers?

The gap is quite large, the 7E7 is only a 757/767, A300/A310, and A330 replacement. When the 7E7 joins Boeing's wide-body lineup, the 7E7 will be the baby with the 747 being the largest and the 777 between them.

The 7E7 will most likely be offered in two lengths, but three versions. The Base will provide a replacement for 767s and A300s, the Short Range will replace A310s and 757s, and the Stretch will compete with the A330 and probably open new markets that haven't been tapped-

(aircraft)(passengers)(length)(range)
  • Base 7E7- 200 pax in 3 class; 182 ft; 7,800nm

  • Short Range 7E7- 300 pax in 1 class; 182 ft; 3,500nm

  • Stretch 7E7- 250 pax in 3 class; 202 ft; 8,300nm


  • Since you asked about the 747, here's a comparison-
    (aircraft)(passengers)(length)(range)
  • 747-400ER- 416 pax in 3 class; 231 ft; 7,670nm

  • 777-300ER- 365 pax in 3 class; 242 ft; 7,705nm

  • 777-200ER- 301 pax in 3 class; 209 ft; 7,730nm


  • Hope that helps, if you would like to compare these numbers to Airbus aircraft this should be useful- http://www.airbus.com I can't wait for this plane!

    ~ R y a n
     
    travellin'man
    Posts: 469
    Joined: Sun May 13, 2001 1:55 am

    RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

    Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:05 pm

    Lufthansa may not have the luxury of refusing an aircraft it very much needs (to replace the AB6's), one which the side-sticking competition is not yet matching! I think they're trying to throw their weight around, but they need this kind of plane as much as Boeing needs to sell it to them. I see them lining up along with SIA as launchers.
    It is not enough to be rude; one must also be incorrect.
     
    DfwRevolution
    Posts: 8544
    Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

    RE: Boeing 7E7 - Alitalia First Customer?

    Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:31 pm

    I think Boeing will play ball with Lufthansa.

    Boeing has been stressing interchangeability of the 7E7 almost from day one. Nearly all 7E7 variants will be available within a 2 year window of EOS, so launch customers don't get screwed with the beta version. Boeing announced this week that they want engine manufactures to use a common engine pylon, allowing engines to be swapped easily. Boeing is cutting the options available to an airline to stress uniformity. And... Boeing has let it slip "we are working on a neat little side stick of our own."

    That last one can only be targeted at Lufthansa. What Boeing means by a "neat little side stick" I have no idea, but it won't be a me-too of the Airbus stick. If anything it's probably a side stick with tactile feedback, and in going with Boeing's philosophy for the 7E7, can probably be changed out for a yoke at any time. But like I said, that's just my best guess.

    I think we will see launch customers before Farnborough, which isn't far off

    Who is online