ssides
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Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:10 am

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/local/8103579.htm

Even more AA expansion at DFW? Sure, I'd love to see more diversity, but overall, this would be good for the airport. More destinations, more flights, more passengers -- I'll take it!

[Edited 2004-03-04 17:12:20]
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
KKMolokai
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:36 am

Very interesting article. It'll be great to see AA expand. I was a little surprised however, that the article mentioned that Terminal D would be used for a mix of domestic and international flights. I was under the impression Terminal D was to be used as a International terminal exclusively, used by all airlines.

Do you suppose AA will shift their Eagle RJs (currently operated out of Terminal B), back to Terminal A, closer to their Eagle satellite terminal, and in turn, consolidate all AA flights in/out of Terminal A, C and D?
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
ssides
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:45 am

I too was a bit surprised to see that Terminal D will be a mix of domestic and international, but given the dropoff in international flights after 9/11, they probably had no choice. It would really look bad if they opened the terminal and a quarter of the gates were unused due to lack of demand. Hopefully the new terminal will attract a new international carrier or two and be able to be fully dedicated to international flights in the near future.

I don't know if AA will move their Eagle operation, although I think it would make sense. Many of the "A" gates near the Satellite Terminal can only deal with small aircraft (I don't even know if they can handle MD-80s), so that might be a good move. If the RJ trend continues for a few years, we might possibly see Terminal A being an all-Eagle, all-RJ operation.

I think the biggest question for DFW post-Terminal D will be what to do with Terminal B. BA, Lufthansa, Korean Air, TACA, Aeromexico, and Air Canada will all be moving over to Terminal D. If AA were to leave Terminal B as well, B would become an even bigger eyesore. AirTran is planning on expanding in B, of course, but I don't know if that will be enough.

Oops ... I mentioned two airlines that aren't in B ... Aeromexico operates out of E with its Delta codeshare, and TACA operates out of A. So B won't be losing quite as many airlines



[Edited 2004-03-04 17:48:20]
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
contrails
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:57 am

I am glad to be hearing good news about airlines and airports for a change. This will no doubt make DFW the busiest airport in the world in a few years.

Great news for the Ft. Worth/Dallas area.
Flying Colors Forever!
 
ssides
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:02 am

This will no doubt make DFW the busiest airport in the world in a few years.


I'd love to see it, Contrails, but that's a big step. It will take a lot more passengers to catch up with ATL and ORD. If UA were to go under, I could see DFW moving to the #2 slot, but with DL feeding more and more pax thru ATL, and AA flying more point-to-point markets, I think it's a long shot.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
jsnww81
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:13 am

I don't know that American would decide to consolidate Eagle ops in Terminal A. They just spent quite a bit of money reconfiguring their Terminal B gates for RJs (granted, those gates were only about five years old) and should have some room to expand there.

The gates on the north side of Terminal A might work for RJs, but the southern-side gates (the current international area) all have HUGE departure lounges and widely spaced jetbridges. I see those gates handling American's limited widebody domestic flights (there aren't many anymore) and 757 flights.

I'm still waiting for the day when the horrible Terminal C 'addition' that was constructed circa 1990 (on the south side) is brought up to the same standards as the rest of the airport. Right now it looks like a bunch of brown mobile homes all tacked together.

Good news on Terminal D - I think that with international expansion being a major focus of AA in the coming years, eventually Terminal D will be used solely for international flights.
 
bartond
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:27 am

I'm with whoever said that it's just good to see airlines/airports expanding, with all the crap that's gone on in the past few years. It seems like I heard something about Terminal D being a domestic/international terminal early last year. Why the hell are they calling it an international terminal if it's not totally international? Maybe it will be someday.

So AA's international flights along with the (limited number of) international carriers we have can't fill up the new terminal? I'm guessing the domestic flights that will be at Terminal D will be for international connections (i.e. - flights to Miami to connect to Madrid)?

It will be interesting to see what happens to terminal B in the future - I'm guessing it might be an all low cost carrier terminal. ATA might add some flights and AirTran might go over there and maybe Jetblue will get in the game, too.

But what everyone's hoping for is for a foreign carrier or two to grace DFW's presence with the new international terminal. Qantas and/or Eva are my picks.
 
ssides
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:40 am

Bartond --

The original plan was for an all-international terminal, and all international operations will be consolidated in Terminal D when it is complete. In my view, that justifies calling it an "international" terminal.

I think that Terminal A will probably undergo renovation after Terminal D is complete, because there will be no need for the customs facilities there (similar renovations are also likely for Terminals B and E).

I'm trying to figure out the gate allocation at Terminal D. There will be 28 gates, and AA will have 19 of them. BA will have one, LH will have one, Korean will have one, AM will have one, TACA will have one (but could share with AA), and AC will have one. That makes 25, with three left over for charters and expansion. Based on that configuration, it might not take long for the terminal to go all-international. WIth 19 gates, I doubt AA will have much room for domestic flights. They need dedicated gates (if I'm not mistaken) for LGW (probably 2 gates), FRA, ZRH, CDG, and AA), Japan">NRT flights, and then they'll have to split the others up between the Canada, Mexico, and South American flights. So I could see just 7 or 8 gates being used for domestic flights from the outset, and hopefully that number will decrease.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
atcboy73
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:43 am

I think part of the reasoning behind both international and domestic flights at the new terminal might be this.

If an AA MD80 comes in from MEX and then AA wants that flight to continue on to LGA, they might have to reposition it if terminal D was only for international flights. But the way it is going to operate it gives the airlines using it more flexability.

I dont know about a/c seating configurations but could there also be a 777 doing something like MIA-DFW-AA), Japan">NRT some day?

Just something to think about.
 
ti717
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:57 am

ATCboy you hit the nail on the head. It not that operational wise to use a terminal for only international fights when the terminal is used by a Hub carrier. It been plan this way for a while (5 years +) By what I understand the new 28 gates at DFW will replace the AE hardstand gates and maybe even the AE terminal. This way DFW did not have to a EPA report when they built the terminal. (save money and time)

We will see the "temporary" part of C (south end) go away anytime soon unless it falls down.

With the gate Allocation you have to include schedules charters (all the 727 to Mexico) An by what I understand the other 6 gates (I know 19 + 6 does not equal 28) are all common use therefore there could be a high rate of use if DFW can get the airline to fly in there.


TI717
Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
 
jsnww81
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:26 am

TI717:

I wouldn't be surprised to see the "temporary" part of C fall down. It's really disgraceful looking, although the interior is up to par with the rest of DFW.

The repositioning argument makes sense, particularly since aircraft would have to be taxied all the way around the airport to Terminals A and C.

A few domestic flights certainly won't hurt Terminal D's prestige - particularly if they relocate the "big ticket" domestic ops there (LAX, LGA/EWR, BOS, SFO, MIA, ORD/MDW, etc.) When the Terminal B extension was opened in 1999, it was used for those flights, since they don't typically have as many connecting passengers. I can see American applying that logic to Terminal D as well.
 
atcboy73
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:15 am

What gets me is its HUGE!!!

I mean, have you seen it?

I have taxied by it a few times now and its gona dwarf 747s. From the air side it looks like its 10 times bigger than the other terminals.

Well

ok

maybe not 10 times but its big.
 
adh214
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:16 am

Frankly, I will a little concerned with AA taking over 2/3rds of D. Granted, 28 gates will be plenty for DFW's current international operations (Remember gates can be used more than once per day) but will AA swat on those 19 gates in a few years when a new international carrier wants to start flying to DFW such as Air France. UA has done the same thing at DEN and Frontier is not able to expand as fast or as much as they would like. It looks like this might be a predatory move on AA's part.

Andrew
 
PUDFW
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 7:16 am

A few people have mentioned this before but I cant see them not allowing terminal D to be full. This will be the best facility in the country maybe even the world, it makes no sense they wouldn't have it filled up.

I cant see AA leaving Terminal B, they spent a lot of money on that part of the airport and currently its the nicest looking part. I think the Eagle Operation from there has been working out pretty well, I haven't heard much different.

Terminal B will lose some big tenants but I am thinking this will allow Airtran to expand more. In my opinion they are the most likely case. No offense to Jet Blue fans but they will get trounced if and when they come to DFW. DFW travelers are very loyal to AA and American will run them out of town. ATL was a good lesson in that.

I think ATA will also expand, along with perhaps more traffic from CO and UAL. I think that will be enough to fill the vacant gates in B pretty well.

It will be interesting to see what is next for DFW though. I think redoing some of the older terminals is probably a good idea. I think B will get an update, although it may not be all of it. And I believe A will get a total redesign but I don't expect that for six years or so. DFW likes to keep American happy so thats where they invest the money.

PUDFW
 
blink182
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 8:42 am

PUDFW- It's a smart move on DFW's part to keep AA happy. If AA were to leave DFW, DFW would lose 70% of its pax traffic.

I thought DFW was trying to go the way of european airports in not having dedicated gates to xxx airline as a way to increase gate utilization. Sure, AA has a large international operation out of DFW, but I'm not sure they need 19 gates exclusively for their use.

I hope that once D opens, DFW starts some refreshing of A,B,C, and E.

blink

Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
nickofatlanta
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:12 pm

"I'm trying to figure out the gate allocation at Terminal D. There will be 28 gates, and AA will have 19 of them. BA will have one, LH will have one, Korean will have one, AM will have one, TACA will have one (but could share with AA), and AC will have one. That makes 25, with three left over for charters and expansion. Based on that configuration, it might not take long for the terminal to go all-international. WIth 19 gates, I doubt AA will have much room for domestic flights. They need dedicated gates (if I'm not mistaken) for LGW (probably 2 gates), FRA, ZRH, CDG, and AA), Japan">AA), Japan">NRT flights, and then they'll have to split the others up between the Canada, Mexico, and South American flights. So I could see just 7 or 8 gates being used for domestic flights from the outset, and hopefully that number will decrease."

With all due respect, I am not quite sure I follow this logic, SSides. It seems like a bit of a waste for AA to (or be allowed by DFW to) dedicate 2 gates at a brand spanking new terminal just for LGW flights as well as one each for FRA, ZRH, AA), Japan">NRT and CDG. Similarly, why would KE get a dedicated gate for their thrice weekly service to ICN.
 
ckfred
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 1:23 pm

I'm just curious as to why AC is leaving Terminal B for Terminal D. If UA stays put in B, it makes no sense for a Star partner to move. Most Canadian airports have U.S. Customs and Immigration (I've been through U.S. facilities at YYZ and YYC), so AC doesn't need to be in a terminal with customs facilities.
 
Delta767300ER
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:28 pm

I dont think DFW will overtake ATL as the worlds busiest airport, but I think it can take the #2 spot away from ORD.

-Delta767300ER
 
bartond
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:08 am

Yep the new terminal looks great from a distance, but does anyone know what type of progress they're making on the terminal overall? DFW's website gives you once-a-year pictures of the progress and I think the last ones were from July 2003.

Does anyone with an inside source know if it will be finished by early 2005, like initially planned?
 
ssides
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:15 am

I'm just curious as to why AC is leaving Terminal B for Terminal D. If UA stays put in B, it makes no sense for a Star partner to move. Most Canadian airports have U.S. Customs and Immigration (I've been through U.S. facilities at YYZ and YYC), so AC doesn't need to be in a terminal with customs facilities.

You may be right, especially since DFW service has been downgraded to Jazz  Sad
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
bartond
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:17 am

Scratch my last comment - there are some new pics of the int'l. terminal on dfwairport.com as of February 2004. It's going to be a great facility and I can't wait to take my first flight through there.
 
AluminumShower
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:11 am

The press release is a little misleading. Probably 1/3 of AA's expansion has already happened. The percentage of growth that is mentioned is off of a base schedule size from June of last year. Between then and now, AA has already added more flights at DFW. For example, when AA pulled the plug on the STL hub, the added additional DFW-STL flights.
 
ssides
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:58 am

Scratch my last comment - there are some new pics of the int'l. terminal on dfwairport.com as of February 2004.

I just checked out the web site and couldn't find any new pics. Can you give us a direct link, Bartond?
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
PVD757
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:52 am

Been hearing some strong rumors of another PVD-DFW soon, as the one they started in November is a great performer...
 
blink182
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:48 am

NickofAtlanta- I think SSides said 2 gates would be allocated for AA's LGW flights because there are two AA flights to LGW that I believe depart roughly around the same time, and you can't exactly fit two aircraft at one gate  Nuts.

I think more than likely, AA won't have 19 gates exclusive to their use, but will have the rights to use 19 gates at a time. The Dallas Morning News reported that DFW was trying to get rid of exclusive-long term leases as it hurt gate utilization.
Case in point, Terminal E. Delta owns the terminal and have sole rights to the gates(with the exception of some charters, AM,CO,and NW). With Delta's mainline flights totalling around 60, that means that most jetways are used no more than twice a day. If DFW owned the rights to the gates(which they will when the lease expires), DFW could allow other operators to use them as a way of increasing utilization.

Basically, I think say, gate D3 won't be to AA's exclusive use, just like say, D21 will not be for KE or BA's exclusive use.

blink
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
 
atrude777
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:51 pm

aluminumshower- i wouldn't say AA add3ed flights for DFW-STL, more liekly repositioned them we still had/have 10 flights, but since STL cut back they were repositined to leave every hour ON the hour, so we have a flight to/from DFW leaving every hour. same wtih STL-ORD, but thats something else. also STL-DFW was downgraded to all S80 from 2/3 757's alng wiht a string of S80 flights, but maybe a flight was added or changed but most likely im betting it was repositioned.

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
jcs17
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:25 pm

AA might get 19 gates at terminal D, I'm not really surprised though. They probably could get pretty good utilization out of them with the numerous flights to Mexico, Canada, and Latin America (in addition to the European and Japan flights). As for the rest of the gates, I'd expect to see something that happens in a few places, notably ATL Concourse E. Gates that aren't necessarily leased to a single airline, but instead are flexible by not branding the gate signs and flight information boards with a specific airline name. Most of the time the same airlines go to the same gate as they always do, but it allows the flexibility for charters, weather delays, and such.

m still waiting for the day when the horrible Terminal C 'addition' that was constructed circa 1990 (on the south side) is brought up to the same standards as the rest of the airport. Right now it looks like a bunch of brown mobile homes all tacked together.

I agree with that!
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
bartond
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:49 pm

See if this link works. It's under Capital Development/Photo Gallery.

http://www.dfwairport.com/cdp/photos.htm
 
JayDavis
Posts: 1870
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Comments To Pudfw

Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:28 am

Just an FYI.

CO is no longer in Terminal B. They moved to Terminal E to be with their SkyTeam partners, NW and DL.

FL moved from Terminal E to Terminal B and now we have 4 gates in Terminal B, gates 13,14,15 and 16th.


Jay
 
bartond
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:46 am

I'll paraphrase an article in the March 5-11 issue of the Dallas Business Journal:

American may boost by more than 44,000 its number of annual departures from the airport by 2007...The dramatic move, part of a tentative agreement between the airline and the airport, would increase American's departures from the airport by more than 21% and hike the number of seats AA flies out of the airport by 16%.

In return, D/FW Airport would provide the airline with financial assistance in the form of a larger portion of D/FW's existing, federally authorized $4.50-per-ticket "passenger facility charge."

D/FW Airport in 2003 had 54 million passengers, and now logs nearly 2,000 departures a day. If the new agreement wins approval, it has the potential to increase that by 122 departures a day for American Airlines alone.

While American cannot guarantee passenger volume, which is based on demand, the agreement stipulates minimum seat requirements. That ensures the airline doesn't merely replace larger jets like Boeing 757s with the increasingly popular regional jets. YEA!!!

At its business peak in 2000, D/FW served 60 million pax and had nonstop service to 132 domestic and 32 international destinations, with 2,300 flights a day. And while D/FW once again has nonstop service to 135 domestic destinations and 32 international ones, the number of daily flights remains at more than 300 below what it was before 9/11.

-----------

While I'm glad D/FW is looking to expand alot, I wish it wasn't ALL via American.
 
ssides
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RE: Surprise-AA Will Be Huge At DFW Terminal D

Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:12 am

I agree, Bartond, but what are you going to do? I'm sure people at ATL would want some non-Delta expansion, just like people at IAH would like some non-CO expansion, and people at DEN want non-UA expansion.

I'm wondering if the AA expansion at DFW will come at other airports' expense (namely ORD, STL, and MIA). There is a significant chance that the United States will lose one (US) and maybe two (UA) airlines over the next five years, which will open up hundreds of routes that might be better served via ORD. Can you picture UA going under and AA reducing its ORD flights at the same time? I doubt it. Of course, the chances of UA going under aren't definite, so who knows.

My thinking, however, is that if (and it's a big if) UA were to go under, and AA expanded or held its own at ORD, would demand justify such a massive expansion at DFW? I don't know.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!

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