flymunich
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:15 pm

Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:35 am

Varig announce new Route GRU-MUC-PEK 4/7 with B777-200 from Aug 04.
 
Horus
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:53 am


I remember reading that they were going to route the flight via Madrid. The Spanish authorities were going to them 5th freedom rights on the route (non direct links between Madrid and Beijing).

Will Varig have 5th freedom rights between MUN-PEK? Lufthansa already operate 3x weekly A340 flights while China Eastern operates 2x weekly A340 flights.
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
flymunich
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 1:59 am

China Eastern suspend flights to Munich 6.1.04!!!

Varig has traffic rights between Germany and China.
 
dellatorre
Posts: 864
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:48 am

sources please??? I haven't heard anything about it! I dont think RG is going to CHINA! The new 777s are already assigned for JFK!

stop the gossip!!
 
ConcordeBoy
Posts: 16852
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:52 am

The new 777s are already assigned for JFK!

The new 777s couldnt make this flight anyways  Big grin
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
lan707
Posts: 99
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:54 am

What I heard itis not confirmed yet , at the moment they can take only up to 60 local Pax ex Muc which in my opinon it´s not sufficient to run it .

Let´s see
 
Horus
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:03 am


Weren't Aerolineas Argentinas going to launch flights to Beijing. There has been so much about why their first Asian destination was going to be Beijing rather than the 'traditional' destinations of Tokyo and Hong Kong. Some people said that was because the South American-Hong Kong/Tokyo markets were already saturated. Now out of nowhere Varig have decided to launch flights there, so how will this effect Aerolineas's Beijing plans?
EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
 
EddieDude
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:48 am

AR's flights to PEK from EZE are a reality. I don't know if AR is already doing the route or if it will start in a matter of weeks, but the flight is a certain thing.

About RG, a possible flight to PEK was mentioned here in a.net around the time that AR made its announcement. It was an expected move. Traffic between Brazil and China is expected to grow at a strong rate in the coming years (including a lot of business passengers), so RG wanted to take the advantage.

I hope RG will be successful.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
TBCITDG
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:27 am

Aerolineas will operate the flight to Beijing via MAD. This flight ws in "colaboration" with the Argentine President Kirchner, who wanted stronger ties between Argentina and China.
They are due to operate these flights sometime in the middle of this year.
 
RicardoMexico
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:51 pm

I just red in a Brazilian aviation magazine that Aerolineas Argentinas will start flying to China in June 2004 with a B747-400.
A member of SkyTeam!
 
flymunich
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:41 pm

Brazilian airline initiates flights to China
BRASILIA, March 20 (AFP) - Brazil's Varig airlines will begin flights to China in August, the airline said in a statement.

The airline plans to open an office in Beijing Monday to accommodate passengers who wish to travel on the 25-hour flights, which will be routed through Munich, Varig said Friday.
 
scf158
Posts: 406
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:37 pm

What does LH feel about the MUC-PEK route? Will they couldshare? Isnt this a little unlogical, or does LH not serve china from MUC?
 
flymunich
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:46 pm

@ Scf158

LH 7/7 MUC-PVG-CAN with A343 (later daily A340-600)
LH 3/7 MUC-HKG with A343
LH 3/7 MUC-PEK with A343

All flight year around service from Summer-timetable 2004:

 
nethkt
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2001 10:27 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:48 pm

I am happy Varing is coming again around BKK. It makes me easy to go and visit my boyfriend in Sao Paulo. I think there will not be many pax. ID travel rules again!!  Smile
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 968
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:09 pm

I think it's good news. But actually, wouldn't it be easier and less risky for RG to have flights to MUC that connected to LH's Asian services?
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:19 pm

This is not official. We will have to wait for RG confirmation. Up untill now, nothing has been stated in the brazilian press!

Rgs.

Neo
 
Spike
Posts: 1110
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 1:08 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:19 pm

At 25 hours, does that make the Varig flight the longest direct service in the world? Is Brazil on China's approved destination status (ADS) list? New airlines serving China so far this year:

Aerolenas Argentinas
Air France (new service to Guangzhou)
Air India
Emirates
Kenya Airways
Lufhansa (new service to Guangzhou)
Singapore Airlines (new service to Shenzhen)
Varig

I'm sure there are some more... anyone else got any info?
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:20 pm

Well, RG is flying 4/7 and LH is flying 3/7, it seems they will add up to a daily MUC-PEK flight, and RG will (probably) codeshare with CA (and LH of course) on that route.

SailorOrion
 
dutchjet
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:24 pm

I guess that FOR POLITICAL REASONS, the Brazilan government is encouraging RG to open up this route; a direct flight is required (no code-shares here) and the presence of a Brazilian aircraft in China is important as the flight itself......I have no idea if there is demand for the service, but I would guess that there will be enough freight traffic and premium class business traffic to help keep costs under control.

I think that it is an interesting move using MUNICH as a transit stop....I assume that with LH and RG being STAR partners, some type of code share can be worked out that will keep the SaoPaolo-Munich fully booked, and help attract extra pax load on the Munich-Beijing segment.
 
Spike
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:30 pm

I'll certainly use Beijing - Europe with Varig on my next flight back. That sounds superb! Smart move RG.
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:40 pm

I don't know whether it is the longest flight, but definitely one of the longest, and with 9491nm is pretty far out of the range of even the 777-200LR. Interesting side-effect: a theoretical nonstop would be 9491nm as well, so this stopover in MUC is not really a detour.

But there is (or was?) RG's GRU-LAX-NRT flight at 10078nm (or 9984 direct), and
Aerolineas plan EZE-MAD-PEK as well standing at 10415nm (or 10413 direct).

An interesting question remains: Would the market be there for a plane with a truly "global range", that can connect these city pairs? With winds and anything there'd be need for around 11200-11500nm range, does that make sense?

In my opinion the next step of evolution after the A340-500/777-200LR would be something that can fly LHR-SYD nonstop (9200nm, still air distance somewhere near 10000nm), but a plane of more or less one market?

SailorOrion
 
Spike
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:53 pm

I think LHR-SYD has long been the plane makers goal. It seems very elusive though, but didn't a trial A340 do it? SYD-NYC would be further I guess.
 
LJ
Posts: 4127
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sat Mar 20, 2004 11:55 pm

At 25 hours, does that make the Varig flight the longest direct service in the world?

No, that title is still going to NZ001 (which takes 26 hours eastbound and is 1000 miles longer).

LHR-LAX-AKL = 11950 miles
GRU-MUC-PEK = 10910 miles
 
mia
Posts: 813
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:40 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:04 am

About the distance. This aircraft could do this flight. According to http://gc.kls2.com/ GRU-PEK is 10921 mi. While GRU-MUC-PEK is 10922 miles with GRU-MUC being 6112 and MUC-PEK being 4810 mi. They could fly it with a 772. What is so funny about this is that the most profitable airline in S.A. has no further plans for expansion (atleast announced or rumoured). I wish we could see more LanChile around the world.
"Like all great travelers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen."
 
mrniji
Posts: 5382
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:47 am

China Eastern suspend flights to Munich 6.1.04!!!

Why? Too less demand on MUC-PEK??
"The earth provides enough resources for everyone's need, but not for some people's greed." (Gandhi)
 
AF022
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:04 am

maybe lanchile is profitable because they are not obsessed with dots on a map. varig loves the idea of expansion to glamourous destinations, but there is no business rationale backing up these decisions.

do you remember the GRU-JNB-BKK-HKG fiasco? RG ripped apart the great GRU-JNB flight that connected from the US in order to serve HKG, but there were no traffic rights JNB-HKG and the flights got absolutely hammered. in fact, many many passengers GRU-HKG originated in ASU and were destined to TPE. i can't think of a worse yield situation than that.

is there any reason other than glamour and prestige to serve PEK? if anything PVG seems like a better market.
 
Philaboy
Posts: 122
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 7:34 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 21, 2004 3:35 am

What about JAL flight 048. It does NRT-JFK-GRU does it not. That route stands at 11489 miles. That is a long flight no doubt that does a Asia-South America connection
 
Lan_Fanatic
Posts: 1056
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 11:41 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:24 am

I don't know much about the topic, so I ask...why do airlines have to launch flights to certain destinations as a way to strength the ties between some countries?
As far as I know Aerolineas Argentinas and Varig are privately-owned airlines, so why do they have to follow the ideas of the president?
I know that it would never happen here in Chile. First, the president would never try to stick his nose in private business, and if he did, LanChile would just tell him "you can go to hell".
 
SailorOrion
Posts: 1959
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2001 5:56 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Sun Mar 21, 2004 7:55 pm

AF022:

MUC-PVG is served by LH on a daily bases, from June with A340-600. RG could put the GRU-MUC sector as such that passengers have connection possibilities to PVG, HKG, BKK and DXB, and to a later point (probably this winter) to SIN. While i admit that some of the destinations would be quite a detour if flown via MUC/FRA, it is still better than no service at all.

SailorOrion
 
EddieDude
Posts: 6241
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Mon Mar 22, 2004 12:51 am

I would tend to think that PVG is a more attractive destination than PEK for any airline considering flights to China too; however, I do not think that RG just made its decision based on a suggestion (or order) of the government. The commercial exchange between China and Brazil is growing very fast (I think Brazil is the main exporter of soy to China at the moment), and Chinese investment in Brazil is booming and is expected to become one of the top sources of foreign investment in Brazil soon. In addition, there is probably a large number of Chinese inhabitants in Brazil so we can expect for the loads to be decent. And if RG indeed gets 5th freedom rights for more than just 60 pax in Germany, then its chance of success will be less uncertain. RG has great prestige in Europe and I am sure many European travelers (especially Star Alliance f.f.'s) going to PEK will consider going to MUC in order to take the RG flight.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
Jj
Posts: 1189
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:40 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Mon Mar 22, 2004 1:07 am

Lan Fanatic:

While AR is privately owned, it must get along with the government if it wants to obtain international traffic rights. The relationship between AR and the government wasnt very good. In fact, president Kirchner decided to support Southern winds instead of AR, and even granted them traffic rights to Mexico City. AR has wanted to re start flights to Cancun, Mexico city, Los angeles (this flight has less chances of re starting because Argentina is CAT 2), Punta Cana (and some other places), for some time, but they don't have the rights. So, they are making an effort to be in good terms with Kirchner. He asked for flights to China, and AR will fly to China. The head of AR, Antoino Mata, even spent 130000 euros for a historical furniture previously owned by Peron, and gave it as a gift to the government. So it's not like AR is forced to do what the government wants, but they are doing it, because there are other interests in between.
 
flymunich
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:33 am

BEIJING (Dow Jones)--China and Brazil's deepening trade ties have prompted the South American country's national carrier to launch a flight link between Sao Paulo and Beijing starting in August, a company executive said Monday.

ADVERTISEMENTBrazil's Viacao Aerea Rio Grandense S/A (VAGV4.BR), or Varig, will fly from Sao Paulo to Beijing via Munich four times weekly on two Boeing 777 planes that the carrier will lease specifically to service the new route, Varig's executive vice president Alberto Fajerman told Dow Jones Newswires.

Passenger demand between China and Brazil has reached the point where it is more economical for Varig to fly its own planes between the two countries rather than continue to rely on its Star Alliance airline partners.

"Today China is already Brazil's third largest commercial partner, growth rates show us that China will be the second this year and our experience shows us that when you have business you have passengers," Fajerman said in an interview.
 
latinaviation
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:25 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:36 am

Do you have a link for this article, Flymunich?
 
latinaviation
Posts: 1162
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:25 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:04 pm

Here's a link to an interview about the new route:
http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/040322/15/3iy24.html
 
flymunich
Posts: 169
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:52 pm

Days and times new RG-Flights:

ops 1.3.5.7 GIG 2100 GRU 2200-2300 MUC 1430-1600 PEK 0920
ops .23.5.7 PEK 1355 MUC 1900-2030 GRU 0500-0550 GIG 0650
 
Neo
Posts: 730
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2001 8:21 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:54 pm

Are the schedules already available for this new route???

I can't find it... How did you get the frequencies and times?

Rgs

Neo
 
mozart
Posts: 2039
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:44 pm

The MUC arrivals and departures are at two of MUC's peak departure times, so this will make connections easy.
 
User avatar
swissbrazil
Posts: 157
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RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:24 am

any news on this? is it confirmed?
 
TBCITDG
Posts: 851
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

RE: Varig Announce GRU-MUC-PEK

Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:24 am

Lan Fanatic
One can never run a good business model (not only airlines) if you do not have the backing o the Govement.
What would happen if LAN was 'asked' to start services to PEK and they then decided to snub their noses at this request? How would LAN react if the goverment then supported AR del Sur? Or Sky?
I am sure that it has to be beneficial to the airlines as well to start up this services (cargo comes to mind), and it surely must be negociated prior to them commening any new services.

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