toBEYwithMEA
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2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:13 pm

I was flying Emirates Business class on a A330 and I thought that it would be a 2-2-2 clas lay-out.
Well, it was 2-3-2 class lasy-out and there were 7 passengers on borad.
I was stuck in the middle of the 3. there were a lot of other seats in the business class cabin (By the way This flight was from Paris and there was no first class) but the hostess said I could not move.
SO I was stuck beteew these two gentlemen with colds. I don't want go in to details but the postion I was in was not business class style.

On the other hand MEA my home carrier, my favorite airline Have 2-2-2 (on A330) configureation in Cedar Class (Cedar Class is a cross of business class seats and First class service, but it beats any airline's first class).

What airlines have 2-3-2 business class and what airlines have 2-2-2 business class. And caN you mention so features?
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wgw2707
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:36 pm

I think 2-3-2 business class is highly unconventional. Actually on Singapore Air's A345 Leadership COACH CLASS is 2-3-2 (a nice touch). Emirates' 2+3+2 business class and their unusually narrow coach class seats have come under sharp criticism on this site in the past, and I think this will continue until Emirates realizes that in order to be a world-class airline, you need to have a world-class product.

Another bad business class apparently is DL's 2+2+2 767 business class... I've walked through the BusinessElite cabin on those aircraft and the seat pitch looked generous, but I can understand why BizElite class travellers would prefer a wider seat on an aircraft where the standard Y class config is 2+3+2...

-WGW2707
 
airxliban
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:40 pm

MEA has the 2-2-2 because it is a super-world-class carrier!!

BA for example has 2-4-2 !!!!!!!!! in Club world across the 747 and 777, with those silly flat beds.

United also has the 2-3-2 across the 777s, as far as A330/A340's, SAS has 2-2-2 and so do Cyprus Airways, Swiss, NWA, Lufthansa, Austrian, Air Canada, SN and I think also Gulf Air, maybe AF as well.

I think Qantas business class is also 2-3-2...

I suppose we should be glad Emirates doesn't do it 2-4-2 across C Class in the A330s, since they do 3-4-3 in the 777 economy!!! How overhyped and overrated Big grin

PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
kalakaua
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:52 pm

You know AirxLiban, it's nice you have pride in MEA and I'm very proud that you are, but it get's tiring a bit when you over do it. We know that MEA is a great airline, but when you start to bash other airlines, it becomes rude/immature and sometimes sounds obnoxious. But anyway, calm down and keep it easy. Big grin

I myself prefer 2-2-2, and I pity cattle class. Hey, I earned it though, right?!
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
emiratesa345
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:55 pm

(Cedar Class is a cross of business class seats and First class service, but it beats any airline's first class)"

I am sure many would agree that Cedar Class doesn't even compare to the new Emirates First Class which can be found on the A340-500.

"Emirates' 2+3+2 business class and their unusually narrow coach class seats have come under sharp criticism on this site in the past, and I think this will continue until Emirates realizes that in order to be a world-class airline, you need to have a world-class product."

LOT Polish Airlines, with one of the worst looking business class cabins in the skies, have a 2-2-2 layout, however they are not a "world-class airline" by a longshot.

EmiratesA345 Smile/happy/getting dizzy


Edit: Typo



[Edited 2004-03-07 06:57:11]
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tullamarine
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:13 pm

think Qantas business class is also 2-3-2...

QF uses 7 abreast in J class in Domestic config on their A330s with Millenium seats.
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When they are converted to international, they will be 6 abreast only with the new QF sleeper seats.
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airxliban
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:13 pm

Kalakaua,

I'm glad that you got the tone of my previous post. Just having a bit of fun  Smile but of course no disrespect was meant to any other airline that i mentioned with the exception of emirates. Now, I haven't flown on EK so I will reserve judgment on the intangibles, but I really quesiton their 2-3-2 C class in the A330 and their economy 3-4-3 777's. Fair enough that the 777 isn't that much narrower than the 747, but most other airlines still go 9 abreast with their T7s. I suppose that Emirates knows that they can get away with it. If it has anything to do with capacity, hopefully the arrival of the 40 some odd A380s will help them reduce the capacities of their other aircraft.

LOT Polish Airlines, with one of the worst looking business class cabins in the skies, have a 2-2-2 layout, however they are not a "world-class airline" by a longshot.

What were you expecting, 2-3-2 business class in their 767s? If they ran 7 abreast in C Class, there would be no one in it seeing as how Economy is 2-3-2!

In any event, I wouldn't go so far as to call LOT's Business Class ugly...the design on the seats is just a little bit too busy...

edit to add that last portion about LOT seat design.

[Edited 2004-03-07 07:16:40]
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
ua777222
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:52 pm

I think that the 2-2-2 config. is a lot better. Though I don't seem to mind the 2-3-2 in UA's 744. The only issue that I have with the UA business seats are I can never seem to figure out what button to press out of the 3 to make the foot rest go back down. Oh well. I especially like the window side on the UA744 b/c it offers a lot of room to stick stuff in.


/ / / U N I T E D 4 E V E R

UA777222
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AZ
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 7:18 pm

Alitalia has 2+2+2 on 777, TG 2+2+2 on 333 AF 2+2+2 on 333 and 2+3+2 on 777

bye.
Daniele
 
Horus
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Sun Mar 07, 2004 9:22 pm


Egyptair have a 2+2+2, Horus (Business) Class configuration on both their B777s (which have been upgraded recently from 2+3+2) and A340s.
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flpuck6
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:30 am

AF has 2-3-2 on its 777s and 744s.

I have flown in the middle of the middle on the 777 once and was actually quite comfortable. I had no problems sitting there ... although I cannot image as a full paying business class passenger being stuck in that seat, I wouldn't be too happy. Save 'em for the upgrades lol.

Bonjour Chef!
 
FURUREFA
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:39 am

American has 2-3-2 business class. I have never been stuck in the middle. I think on their 767's it was 2-1-2.

Mat
 
aa777223er
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:54 am

AA's Business class is 2-3-2 on 777, and 2-2-2 on 767-300ER (all 2 class configuration, no first), the 767-200ER still has 3 classes, First 2-1-2, Business 2-2-2, Coach 2-3-2, primarily used on transcons now. For the record, passengers generally don't like the middle business seat unless they are traveling with one of the seatmates.
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MarcoPolo747
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:51 am


777s, 747s, MD-11s have in general a 2x3x2 configuration in Business Class and worse....... 2x5x2 in Economy. I was amazed to read that AZ has a 2x2x2 configuration in their 777s ! Any other airlines are that generous ?

A340s and 330s are all fitted with 2x2x2 configuration in Business and 2x4x2 in economy, here Emirates is rather an exception then the rule.

And yes !!!!! That middle seat is martyrdom !
 
Sabena332
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:59 am

BA for example has 2-4-2 !!!!!!!!! in Club world across the 747 and 777, with those silly flat beds.

What a stupid comment. Why are BA's flat beds silly? I flew in Club World and I found it extremly comfortable, I really asked myself why BA also has a First Class, their Business Class already offers very comfortable seats (only disadvantage: they are a little bit narrow) and top service.

Patrick
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airxliban
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:09 am

What a stupid comment. Why are BA's flat beds silly?

1) If you are over 1.75 it is not long enough
2) They are narrower than the Cradle Seat and narrower than the Club World of the generation before (the first Club world introduced on the 744s, I believe...whatever they were using in 1992).
3) If you are facing backwards, your head is higher than your feet at full recline
4) Vicky versa if you are facing forwards
5) The actual seat itself is hard
6) 2-4-2 across a 777 or 747 gives one the impression of being in a very crowded cabin.

that said, it still beats economy.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
Sabena332
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:16 am

1) If you are over 1.75 it is not long enough

I am 1,90 and it was long enough for me.

2) They are narrower than the Cradle Seat and narrower than the Club World of the generation before (the first Club world introduced on the 744s, I believe...whatever they were using in 1992).

I already mentioned that the seats are a bit narrow, but they are still comfortable and they offer privacy, a very important aspect in my opinion.

3) If you are facing backwards, your head is higher than your feet at full recline

Are you serious? You complain about that your head is higher than your feet at full recline, but you also wrote (in reply no. 2) that MEA's Business Class is the best? MEA's Business Class comes not even close to BA's, I say that although I never flew on MEA, only a visual comparison let me come to my opinion.

4) Vicky versa if you are facing forwards

See above.

5) The actual seat itself is hard

I will not say it is hard, but I also do not say that it is soft, It is very comfortable in my opinion, just perfect.

6) 2-4-2 across a 777 or 747 gives one the impression of being in a very crowded cabin.

Absolutely not, every seat has a dividing wall, it makes you feel like you are sitting in your own private lounge, privacy is a very important aspect when you are flying long haul (at least for me), BA's solution is perfect in my opinion.

Anyway, have fun while flying onMEA, your "super-world-class carrier"  Laugh out loud.

Patrick


NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
BA
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:42 am

EmiratesA345 & Sabena332,

You cannot compare BA's flatbeds and EK's business in its A345s with MEA's Cedar Class.

BA's flatbeds are only found on long-haul flights and EK uses its A345s exclusively on its ultra-long range routes.

MEA's A321s and A330s are in a medium-haul configuration and as a result the Cedar Class is not flatbeds.

Compare the same size fish with another same sized fish. Not a bigger fish.

It's been confirmed, when MEA opens up Brazil, they will have flatbeds in Cedar Class. THEN you can go and compare them with BA's flatbeds and EK's amazing A345 interior.

AirxLiban,

Please quit the bashing of other airlines. Yes, MEA is a great airline, but as Kalakaua said, leave the bias out and admire MEA without having to bash other airlines.

I am Lebanese like you and love MEA as much as you do, but do not bash other airlines because of it...........

It's been getting out of hand......
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Benjamin
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:50 am

I think that there seems to be some misunderstandings here.

Standard practice for biz class varies among different planes! The A34x planes are NOT as wide as a B77x or B74x! You can't compare them!

Standard practice for international biz class is 2x2x2 for a A34x and 2x3x2 for a B77x or a B74x (on the lower deck).

The group here has referred to numerous examples of 2x2x2 on a 77x such as on Alitalia or Continental. The reason for this is that these carriers have no first class so their biz class is supposed to be a cross between biz and first. Alitalia calls it Magnifica Class; Continental calls is Business First; Delta calls is Business Elite. I don't know of an airline that has three classes and yet still gives 2x2x2 in international biz class.

I hope this clears this up for everyone!!

Benjamin
 
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TR763
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:54 am

Varig has a 2-3-2 in their 777s, and TAM uses the 2-2-2 configuration in their A332:
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Benjamin
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:57 am

Varig has a 2-3-2 in their 777s, and TAM uses the 2-2-2 configuration in their A332

This furthers my point.
 
airxliban
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:05 am

BA's solution is perfect in my opinion

I guess this is what matters in the end, one's personal opinion. My points 1 and 3-6 are somowhat subjective. You like it, I don't, plenty of people agree with you but there are others like me who mourn the loss of the Cradle seat. Lets go and draw a Venn diagram!!

What has to be said is that regardless of how much one likes or dislikes the new club world flat beds, BA was still a pioneer of the 180 degree business class seat.

but you also wrote (in reply no. 2) that MEA's Business Class is the best?

I didn't say that. I just claimed that MEA is a super world class carrier and apparently my intended sarcastic tone was not carrier over. MEA has only two features better than BA (in my opinion anyway, humble or not):

1) Seats are more plush
2) Seats are wider

That is about it. For everything else, BA has MEA beat, but needless to say they were never meant for comparison. My liking of MEA is based on the intangibles.

Please quit the bashing of other airlines

We know that MEA is a great airline, but when you start to bash other airlines, it becomes rude/immature and sometimes sounds obnoxious

I can take a hint. But what really is bashing anyway? Questioning the appeal of 2-3-2 C Class across an A330 when most other airlines do it 2-2-2? Exhibiting some dislike for a business class of another airline?

In any event, I'll take it easy on the MEA glorification.
PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
 
airxliban
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:15 am

I don't know of an airline that has three classes and yet still gives 2x2x2 in international biz class.

Swiss: First Class 1-2-1 Business 2-2-2 Economy 2-4-2 for example.

If we extend this discussion to non Airbus widebodies, the same can be said about American's 767-200s.

Anyway, I'm beginning to forget what the point of this thread was due to getting side tracked with other issues, but I'm still wondering why EK goes 2-3-2 in the A330s when there is NO first class.

is it that they can get away with it or is it that they the capacity, or do they prefer to offer more legroom than shoulder room, or is it something else?
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Benjamin
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:26 am

Swiss: First Class 1-2-1 Business 2-2-2 Economy 2-4-2 for example.

If we extend this discussion to non Airbus widebodies, the same can be said about American's 767-200s.


Both of your points are mis-stated.

In terms of Swiss, they provide that seating on A340s and A330s. That exactly furthers my point. As I said above, 2x2x2 in biz is standard on these planes.

In terms of American's 762s, you should have read my post more closely. I said INTERNATIONAL(!) biz class. AA flies the 762s are flown DOMESTICALLY on transcons!!

 
airxliban
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:50 am

I don't know of an airline that has three classes and yet still gives 2x2x2 in international biz class.

so you are saying that qualifying aircraft would be 747 or 777 or D10, M11 or whatever then?

[Edited 2004-03-08 03:03:55]
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SR 103
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:34 pm

The orginal question is, why does EK have 2-3-2 for its business class on an Airbus when most other carries flying these planes for long haul have a 2-2-2? I find EK's Business Class seats on the A330 decent. Narrow but most certainly not uncomfortable. Basically Emirates's seats could use a bit of work on the 330 and 777 to match the competition. To be fare though, they are cheap so we should just take what we get, but if they want to tout that they are a "world class airline," the seats need to be worked on.

I suppose we should be glad Emirates doesn't do it 2-4-2 across C Class in the A330s, since they do 3-4-3 in the 777 economy!!! How overhyped and overrated.

Oh no! How can you say that? Now a certain someone will wish for you to get hit by a bus like he did to two other members for that comment.

SR 103
 
toBEYwithMEA
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:25 pm

Air Liban has made a good point many times. This is not bashing
But who in their right mind puts 10 people arcross a 777, I understand a 747 but a 777. Come on even EK fans should be behind me on this one
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:32 pm

lol@AirxLiban - ok, Mr. Super World Class Carrier. By the way: your signature is great!

I love QF's 767-300 configuration in Busi-class, which is 1-2-2. never saw that before. One word: GREAT!
 
Benjamin
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:12 pm

Air Liban has made a good point many times. This is not bashing
But who in their right mind puts 10 people accross a 777, I understand a 747 but a 777. Come on even EK fans should be behind me on this one


This is UNBELIEVABLE! People, please please please LISTEN:

Standard international biz class configurations WHEN THERE IS THREE CLASSES is:

777 & 747: 2x3x2 (2x2x2 only used in biz/1st combos like DL and CO)
A330 & 340: 2x2x2
767: Both 2x2x2 (2x1x2 only used in SOME biz/1st combos like CO)

To the point above, 2x3x2 on a 777 is STANDARD. 2x3x2 on a A340 is NOT. Is it all clear now??
 
toBEYwithMEA
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 am

Ummm, okay but
Benjamin I was talking about Eco.
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Benjamin
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RE: 2-3-2 Business Class Vs. 2-2-2 Business Class

Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:03 am

Good point!

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