SunValley
Topic Author
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"The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:03 am

Before airline deregulation in 1978, Rule 240 was literally a federal requirement. Nowadays, it's a term describing what individual airlines will do for late or stranded passengers. In fact, the major airlines have filed "conditions of carriage" with the U.S. Department of Transporatation (DOT) guaranteeing their respective Rule 240s.

It's my understanding that every major airline in the US has this on file
except SouthWest & JetBlue.

These are also supposed to be on file at each Airlines repsective ticket counter.
 
DeltaAgent1
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:08 am

I'm not sure about what WN & B6 have on file, but I have actually had B6
appear at our ticket counter (Delta Airlines) in SLC, with a credit card in hand and purchase tickets for passenger to both the LA area and to New York on Delta flights, stating that the passenger was distressed by a delayed or cancelled flight.
 
Greg
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:23 am

It CAN be effective...but it is full of loopholes--conveniently skewed in favor of the carriers.

The most important aspect it to make sure that the ticket agent KNOWS what you are talking about. Airlines do not publicize it.

It may take several 'layers' of front line employees to grasp the concept (not a slight---it's likely they haven't been informed).

Rule 240 is not applicable on WN---the only major not to honour it.
 
PVD757
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 3:26 am

I beleive this has to do with ticketing agreements amoungst the airlines. I think this has evolved from being able to issue tickets on another airline using your own "ticket stock". If you were to look at a real ticket, the first 3 numbers identify the airline that issued it. Even a travel agent works under a particular ticket stock depending of which reservation system they are dedicated to. When I worked for AA about six years ago, we had "rule 240" for rerouting on other airlines. Basically, you would call up UA or whoever else flew the same route and asked if they had seats available onboard their flights for your stranded revenue passengers. If so, you would make a reservation for them in the computer for a particular flight that you asked for. You would then write rule 240 on the ticket and they would go to the other airline with their bags. I think the term deals with the amount of compensation that the other carrier gets for taking on your revenue passenger. It evolved with us into rule 120.2 or $120.20 for the compensation the other carrier received for the one way trip. WN and F9 do not have this as a systemwide policy because they do not have ticketing or interline baggage agreements with any other airlines(not sure on baggage, but I'm making an educated guess). I do know someone who worked for AA in PVD. They had a local agreement bewtween the AA and WN station manager that they would honor each others tickets in certain situations for a certain price(not sure on amount).
 
Airportguy1971
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 10:50 am

Gee, I work for F9 and I have never had a problem ruling tickets over to other airlines. We made out like bandits summer 2000 during United's summer of hell. F9 gives and takes just about any ticket with a value on it. AA is one of the few who won't take our tickets for some reason
 
KKMolokai
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:17 am

"Nowadays, it's a term describing what individual airlines will do for late or stranded passengers."

Rule 240 is NOT used for late passengers! Instead it is used when an airline is unable to get a passenger from point A to point B, in the instance of prolonged mechanical/weather delays, etc. Basically, its used (rule 240) for "involuntary" rerouting of passengers.

Most airlines have ticketing agreements which allow one carrier to "rule" a ticket over to another carrier. Southwest is one of the few exceptions.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
KKMolokai
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 11:22 am

PVD757,

Rule 120.20 does NOT imply the dollar amount the receiving carrier receives. It is simply the IATA code (I believe its called) used when ruling these tickets over to another carrier. Also, this only implies to domestic "paper" tickets, as all (or most) domestic e-tickets are simply "INVOL" electronically to the receiving carrier. International tickets are a bit more complicated, and have a "rule."
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
Midway2AirTran
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:56 pm

The airlines must have an agreement with each other to use it. It can be very expensive to airline giving it off from an advanced purchase coach fare.
"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 pm

RULE 240 -simply outlines what is and isn't the airlines responsibility to a passenger to get them to their destination based on delays and/or cancellations. There are several paragraphs and subparagraph's outlined in Rule 240. Some of which include things like if a work force is on strike the only obligation the airline has is to refund your ticket if requested rather than issue to another carrier. Another is if the ticketed airline can not get you on a flight within 90 minutes of your scheduled departure (based on reasons within their control) then a passenger has the right to request an alternative carrier. It goes on and on as there are probably about 15 paragraphs with several subparagraph's in Rule 240.


RULE 120.20 - Is simply the agreement that ALL IATA carriers have to accept the original flight coupons (with value) as long as their is no change in origin or destination. So someone traveling on CO CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO-EWR and has their flight cancelled and is rebooked on NW CO / KMCO), USA - Florida">MCO-DTW-EWR; takes their CO flight coupon to NW that has been endorsed by CO and is guaranteed travel at no additional cost as long as the new carrier has seats available.




" AA is one of the few who won't take our tickets for some reason "

AA is awful at accepting rule 120.20 tickets and violating IATA agreements. I don't know why. DL has the same problem. We confirm with them and the passengers just end up having to come back with DL even with reissued tickets showing AA as the operating carrier. AA is now the last resort for DL agents in most cities as their deterrent policy has cost them revenue.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
KKMolokai
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:26 pm

"AA is awful at accepting rule 120.20 tickets and violating IATA agreements. I don't know why. DL has the same problem. We confirm with them and the passengers just end up having to come back with DL even with reissued tickets showing AA as the operating carrier. AA is now the last resort for DL agents in most cities as their deterrent policy has cost them revenue."

We take them all the time, especially from the legacy carriers. The only problem I've noticed with "ruled" tickets from DL, is when (which is more often than not) DL doesn't follow the rules of 120.20 or 735D (ie. change of destination), which invalidates the ticket, of which we cannot accept. In turn, we have to send the DL passenger back to DL to have the ticket reissued, INVOL or a FIM issued.

DL is also terrible about not "reissuing" tickets before sending them over to us. Often times, they'll have a passenger that was originally on a non-stop, that are now making a connection, and instead of reissuing their ticket to now have two coupons to correspond with their new itinerary, they send their passengers "as is." This only delays their passenger, as WE then have to reissue DL ticket. Vise-Versa however, and DL comes screaming!

We've had many "ruled" tickets from DL that were not ruled correctly, or done incorrectly, and when AA tried to collect on these tickets from DL, they outright refused too. And then they (DL) wonder?
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:17 am

"DL doesn't follow the rules of 120.20 or 735D (ie. change of destination), which invalidates the ticket"

I highly doubt that DL is sending passengers to PDX when they need to go to SEA. I am sure it happens, but not to the effect of having droves of passengers having to come back to the DL ticket counter from each AA flight during a DL IROP. When it is an airport that is a co-terminal then it is perfectly valid to send a passenger ticketed for LGA to EWR or SFO to OAK. AA must accept this per Rule 240.


"DL is also terrible about not "reissuing" tickets before sending them over to us"

It isn't DL's job to reissue a 120.20 ticket, just as it isn't AA's job to do that when sending people to DL. If a passenger is going ATL-LAX on one coupon and the ticket is "ruled" to AA routing ATL-DFW-LAX it is AA's job to turn that coupon into two. Most airlines have an Online Transfer function that is just a matter of keystrokes to do this.
If DL were to reissue the ticket to AA then it is no longer a Rule 120.20 which defeats the purpose. The ticket is now an interline agreement and AA only gets the value on the ticket. When the ticket still shows DL as the operating carrier such would be the case with a DL ticket stamped "RULE 120.20" then AA gets more revenue as they get almost a 50% portion of the full "Y" fare in the market. The same holds true for a FIM.

"Vise-Versa however, and DL comes screaming!"

This must just be the case of inexperienced agents. The only time I have ever sent people back to the original airline is when our flight has been full and DL's res system denied requested seat from the other carrier (hasn't happened all that much). This happens only though when the airline hasn't confirmed the reservation with DL, just requested it and sent them on their way.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
KKMolokai
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:30 am

For a ticket to simply be "ruled" over to another airline, the origination and final destination must remain the same. The connecting city may be changed however. If either the originating/final destination is altered, the ticket cannot simply be ruled over, it must be INVOL or FIM'd.

DeltaMIA is absolutely correct, DL doesn't have to correctly reissue the ticket, as they frequently neglect to do, its done as a common courtesy for the other airline who is now accepting your distressed passenger. When AA rules over a ticket to DL, or any other carrier for that matter, if the ticket needs to be reissued in order to produce the correct number coupons, we will do so PRIOR to sending the passenger to DL, thus eliminating a lengthy check-in.

Again, we're talking about paper ticketed passengers. Electronic tickets, if ruled properly, will re-associate themselves accordingly in SABRE.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
AIR757200
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 2:37 am


I'll agree with KKMolokai, we (AA) would take tickets under any circumstance as long as we know we will be paid for the ticket, in other words, if the ticket is endorsed properly.

I've had DL Conx (in FNT) send over passengers to AA/DTW with the original FNT-XXX-XXX tickets, so I turned, rejected the tickets and sent them back over to DL.

But I've also had experiences with NW many times sending passengers to our counter with only the word "INVOL" on the ticket and that is not the proper endorsement procedure. I (and we) only accept ruled tickets if the ticket has sometime along the lines of: "INVOL REROUTE RULE 120.20 AGT SINE" and when I rule over tickets to other carriers, I also write "AA to NW" as an extra, but it's not necessarily required. With NW though, I often call and get an agent sine over the phone, but a few times, NW would ask for the passenger to come back to their counter (in the new terminal).
 
OttoPylit
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:05 am

"we will do so PRIOR to sending the passenger to DL, thus eliminating a lengthy check-in."

KKMolokai, keep in mind that with this post, you are now speaking on behalf of many thousands of AA agents around the world. And if this is so, then maybe you can explain to me why I have NEVER gotten AA coupons with the correct amount for travel whenever I have had contact with an AA passenger. It has happened whenever I have worked in JAX and ATL. I have (many times in JAX) gotten passengers from AA headed to ORD or DFW with just 120.20 written on the ticket. Nothing showing which airlines or anything. I then have to print up an Online Transfer for the passenger so that they can have the correct number of coupons for travel. I am sure that American has a quite a few bad seeds that don't want to follow rules and regulations, and I am sure that Delta has a few as well, but don't speak for all AA employees when you are speaking for those that do not follow the rules.
I don't have a microwave, but I do have a clock that occasionally cooks shit.
 
KKMolokai
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 8:21 am

OttoPylit,

I speak for ALL those agents in our city, yes. We've all had extensive ticketing training, and the majority are senior agents as well.

Again, we're talking about passengers with paper tickets ... electronically ticketed passengers don't need to have the correct number of coupons, as their tickets will automatically re-associate accordingly to the new itinerary upon check-in.

Over 90 percent of AA's passengers now fly electronically, so a paper ticket is indeed rare, and usually only seen in association with an international ticket. If you are having to reissue a DFW or ORD ticket, these again are 90% of the time electronic, and have already been INVOL "electronically" to the new carrier. A simple "120.20" on the AA receipt is more than sufficient, since all the INVOL information and authorization is in the VCR. A simple check-in at the new carrier is all that is needed to produce the correct number of coupons.

We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:08 am

"Again, we're talking about passengers with paper tickets ... electronically ticketed passengers don't need to have the correct number of coupons, as their tickets will automatically re-associate accordingly to the new itinerary upon check-in."

It still is very common practice to print the flight coupon of an electronic ticket and endorse to AA or any airline. As great as that feature maybe for Sabre, at DL it does not do that. An electronic ticket is simply that, an electronic paper ticket. If it is 4 coupons or two in order for additional coupons to be created the ticket would have to be reissued. If DL gives control of a single coupon like ATL-LAX that is all you get ATL-LAX. So they have taught gate agents, especially in ATL, to print the coupon and stamp "Rule 120.20" on it. I reissue everything, so it isn't a problem for me, but I know that DL is teaching gate agents this to avoid having to send them to any kind of ticketing class.
Also KKMolokai it is courtesy to reissue the tickets, but remember flight coupons showing one airline endorsed are more revenue to your airline than reissued tickets showing AA as the service provider. So a nonrefundable $100 fare on DL stock ticketed for travel on DL endorsed to AA is worth around $400 to AA. However that same ticket reissued and now showing AA as the operator is only worth $100. And while some airlines (like NW) have the ability to issue OLT's to other airlines, DL does not have that ability. DL can not even issue OLT's on the DL codeshared American Eagle flights out of LAX.

"I've had DL Conx (in FNT) send over passengers to AA/DTW with the original FNT-XXX-XXX tickets, so I turned, rejected the tickets and sent them back over to DL"

I can see that happening and in that case that is correct I too would send them back to DL in that case. FNT really should be reissuing those tickets or writing FIMS.


It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 9:42 am

The accounting mumbo-jumbo behind the scenes:


Rule 240 - Carrier A sends passenger to Carrier B, who bills Carrier A a set percentage of the full -Y- fare in the market; AA is usually the most punitive, billing back at 50% the full -Y- rates for the most part.

Rule 120.20 - Carrier A sends passenger to Carrier B, who bills Carrier A for just the face value shown on the flight coupons.


This is why there are so few Rule 240s anymore - they're expensive as hell!
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
jessman
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:05 am

DeltaMIA, You should really see if you can get your supervisors to teach you folks how to electronically endorse the tickets. It only takes a couple of entries. We have been doing that over here at RES (SMS/CCD) for a couple of months now.
I just endorsed one over today to AA for a DEN-DFW flight.
They were able to check in with AA directly, no need for paper at all.
It's really a very neat feature with the interline ET.
 
KKMolokai
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:54 am

Jessman,

Thank you! Thank You!

That is the whole point of ELECTRONIC ticketing, to eliminate the need for paper tickets. In the event an electronic (non-paper) ticket needs to be endorsed over to another carrier, it is done so ELECTRONICALLY. there is absolutely no need to print that VCR/electronic ticket to paper. None!

DeltaMIA,

"It still is very common practice to print the flight coupon of an electronic ticket and endorse to AA or any airline."

There's your problem! Again, there is never a reason to print the electronic tickets to paper. Rule, INVOL or reissue the ticket electronically, and you've solved your problem!
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:02 am

Jessman,

I know how to do it, however it can't be done without reissuing the ticket when you are converting 1 cpn into two. In other words you can't just do ETGC*1&AA (% is end item) if they are now being routed DEN-DFW-ATL instead of DEN-ATL. The ET must be reissued into two coupons or all AA will have is a single DEN-ATL coupon. What I was saying is that not all agents especially some that have never seen the light of day at the ticket counter can do reissues easily and it is still standard practice to just print the single coupon and send them on their way. I wasn't saying that is what I do, just that DL is still teaching that in their IROP ticketing class (which was a waste of time for the cross utilized employees).
BTW where I work I think we teach the supervisors (most of the time).
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
KKMolokai
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:32 am

DeltaMIA,

In the instance you're speaking of, if ruled electronically, when we check the passenger in for the AA flights, SABRE will re-associate the single DL (electronic) VCR coupon with the new corresponding AA flight segment(s).

In other words, if say you rule over coupon 4 of your DL VCR to AA, and have booked a two-segment flight on AA, say segments 1 & 2, SABRE will re-associate your DL coupon 4 with the AA itinerary segments 1 & 2.

Its a wonderful feature, and a time saver for all involved, especially the passenger. Again however, the origination and final destination must remain the same (connecting city may vary) in order for this to work. All others must be reissued, INVOL or FIM'd (electronically) over to the new carrier.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.
 
DeltaMIA
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:52 am

KKMolokai,

That is neat feature. I hadn't been told that SABRE does that, but then I guess they can't teach you everyone's system including our own. If fact I don't know if ours does that in a vice-versa sense.
But please realize that everyone's system is different. If you have ever had the luxury of using another carriers system you will know what I mean (maybe you have). I know when I worked Continental insourcing the difference was ridiculous as they were so far behind on the tools that add simplicity for things such as reissues and what not; it was mind boggling as what it took a DL agent 3-4 keystrokes to complete it takes 50 over at their Sonic set. I understand though that things have improved as I haven't worked them in 2 years now.
It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
 
AirframeAS
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:53 am

Thats what FIMs are for. (Flight Interruption Manifest) I got those all the time from AA and UA in SEA as an AS ticket agent. Those were very annoying.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
F9Fan
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:56 pm

F9 does reaccomodate passengers on other airlines. Their contact of carriage is at http://www.frontierairlines.com/pdf/Contract_of_Carriage.pdf with rule 240 beginning on page 49.

My experience with rule 240 occurred two years ago. I was flying from DEN to MIA via MSP on NW, just before F9 began service to FLL that was convenient for cruise passengers. The flight from DEN was delayed because of engine problems on the #2 engine. We arrived at MSP, but my flight to MIA already left. I was able to be accommodated on the next flight, but other couples going to MIA weren't. NW flew them to MCO where they were transferred to AA for the leg from MCO to MIA. They arrived at MIA before me, but their bags were lost. (By the way, who is responsible for the lost luggage?) The bags arrived the next morning, so they made their cruise OK.

It is also my understanding under rule 240 that if they get you to an airport in the same metropolitan area, (e.g. FLL and MIA, or LGW, JFK, and EWR) that they don't have to get you to your final destination airport. For example, if you are ticketed into MIA, but have to be rerouted and the best available flight is into FLL, that is as close as they have to come, and they don't have to provide ground transportation to MIA.

F9Fan
 
KKMolokai
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RE: "The Rule 240"

Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:43 pm

"Thats what FIMs are for. (Flight Interruption Manifest) I got those all the time from AA and UA in SEA as an AS ticket agent. Those were very annoying."

Why are FIMs annoying? Slap them to the back of the boarding pass, and off they go! Simple. and its very rare to see a FIM from AA now-days, just about everything is done electronically.
We are the people of American Airlines. And we know why you fly.