toBEYwithMEA
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The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:15 pm

Why don't Aircraft makerake a A318 that can fly across the atlantic. The 747 has long range and fits a lot of people. All long range aircraft are fit to handle a lot or people. But lets say I want to open a non-stop flight across the lake but the rote will only bring about 90 paxs.
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727200er
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:22 pm

I don't think it would be very cost effective to use such a small a/c for pond jumping. Someone would be doing it from smaller centers if it were.
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wannabe
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlanta's

Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:28 pm

It's simple math. The bigger the airplane, the more fuel it can carry and the longer distance it can fly. The 318 will not carry enough fuel to allow a non-stop flight across the Atlantic. There are some pretty involved financial formulas that help determine the size of an aircraft that will make money for an airline. They include figuring the distance, the amount of people who want to travel between the places the airline wants to service, how much can those people afford, how much the airplane costs, how much it cost to fuel and maintain the aircraft, the crew, etc. I am sure that if there was a economic justification for designing a 90 passenger trans-Atlantic aircraft, someone would have done it already. The only 90 passenger aircraft that has made that flight in recent years was the Concorde. Its cost could not be supported any more.

Beyond all of that, there is the comfort factor. People have become used to flying big airplanes long distances. I would not want to spend 6+ hours in a regional jet, and I doubt there are many people who would.
 
toBEYwithMEA
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Tue Mar 09, 2004 10:48 pm

You make a valid piont Wannabe
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scbriml
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:06 pm

Well, I know it's not an A318, but there are already people operating all business class B737s and A319s across the pond. Range is not a problem for aircraft like this fitted with a low density (but high-yield) configuration.
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747400F
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:09 pm

People have become used to flying big airplanes long distances. I would not want to spend 6+ hours in a regional jet, and I doubt there are many people who would.

hmmm I guess that's why there is such a large amount of biz-jets crossing the Atlantic and other Ponds every day.!
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ND
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:30 pm

I tend to think Biz-jets to be *slightly* more luxurious than flying a commerical regional jet, so I wouldn't mind flying one of those across the Atlantic.

Someone mentioned that people are used to travelling on larger planes. That is very true, and some also feel uncomfortable travelling across the Pond with anything less than 3 engines.
ND - Hated By Many, Confronted By None
 
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:52 pm

That's the point, Jumbofreighter and ND - high quality in a smaller jet is much more comfortable than being imprisoned in a big tube with hundreds of other people.
Also a smaler plane needs less fuel and there is plenty of room for the fuel a 318 needs.
 
LHSebi
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:56 pm

Privatair flies A320s and 737s from DUS to Newark daily I believe...non-stop.

Sebastian
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:58 pm

Right@Sebi. And so I think the 318 is able to do that too. Question is if there is a market.
 
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:26 am

Well even if the 318 cannot cross the atl the 319lr (4500nm) can and its only 20 eco seats larger. Air France will be using it for services to middle east with a high % business class arrangement. The only problem with flying a small plane long haul, is that the extra fuel needed to go a further 1000 miles has to be carried 3500nm first and this will obviously weigh a lot compared to the overall plane weight and increase the burn rate of the initial fuel. I'm not sure how significant this is but it must eventually get to a point were you are putting lots of fuel in but it is having very little effect on the range. This does however mean that F E is poorer than usual, which is why putting fewer people (to keep cabin weight down) and charging them more money makes sense.
 
TWA902fly
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:32 am

and there is always the 757... which does exactly what you said... allows airlines to fly to smaller cities such as CLE-LGW


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solnabo
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:33 am

AF have A318 that flies down to Africa from CDG, guess its oilworkers......or someting like that!!
Not sure though if its 318 or 319!!!
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Spike
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:15 am

LCY-JFK (revenue per day)
100 x US$8,000 x 4 = Concord (but no longer possible)
40 x US$4,000 x 3 = EMB170
60 x US$3,000 x 3 = A319

This allows for extra space and dedicated 'full frills' service. Any accountants want to fill in the gaps?
 
ScottB
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RE: The A318 That Should Cross The Atlantiic

Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:41 am

The A318 doesn't have the range to go transatlantic (without a westbound fuel stop) unless you're talking about something like SNN-YHZ. The "A319" which PrivatAir uses is an A319LR (predecessor of the ACJ, if I'm not mistaken) with extra fuel capacity, and, as others have said, it's configured as all-business class to help keep the weight down. Same for the "737" they operate, which is really a BBJ (-700 with the strengthened -800 wing and extra fuel tanks).

The problem with operating these all-business-class transatlantic flights is that they can easily steal premium traffic from the operator's existing widebody services unless used on niche routes which would not otherwise be operated. And in general, these flights need corporate contracts with guaranteed seat purchases to generate reliable profits.

Not only are bizjets more luxurious for transatlantic travel, they also offer the high-end passenger the ability to avoid most of the inconveniences associated with international travel -- no 60/90-minute check-in, no security screening lines, no boarding lounge filled with 400 people including crying babies, separate immigration/customs facilities on arrival, no connections required, etc.