DC10GUY
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Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:44 am

I just read the memo. Fedex is taking bids to convert 25 firm 25 option 737/300's & 400's to freighters. They are still talking with Boeing about new 737-900 or 900x freighters. The 757's have been ruled out. ( I wish I could post the article but I might get in trouble) It also said the 727's will be replaced soon....
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:52 am

Believe it or not, but that would be their second time with 737s. They actually had a small number of -200s (4, IIRC) back around 1980, but with used 727s so cheap and carrying a bigger load, the 737s didn't last long.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 10:53 am

If FedEx is successful on doing 733 and 734 freighter/combi conversions, I'm sure AS would love to speak with them - they're in need of replacements for their -200C combis.
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gigneil
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:31 am

No new combis will be certified by the FAA is my guess and the general consensus here.

N
 
Thrust
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:46 am

The 733 and 734...why don't they get some MD-80s? That would certainly be better...they have more cargo capacity than the either of these two. Also, what about DC-9s? Personally, I think FedEx should purchase 757s, both the -200 and the -300.
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gigneil
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:53 am

What are you talking about? MD-80s, then DC-9s, then 757-200s and -300s? Which is it man?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

The MD-80 certainly doesn't even have close to the cargo capacity of a 734, and probably not much more than a 733.

The MD-80 has a constrained cabin cross-section that makes it a poor choice for a freighter, and its underpowered compared to the two Boeing airframes. I'm not even sure there is a current STC for an MD-80 freighter.

Obviously, DC-9s are out of the question. They uplift so little payload, and FedEx is retiring relatively new 727s so I doubt they'll get the much older than that DC-9.

The 757-200 can only carry a few more containers than the 734, and at a much higher ton mile cost, and a higher capex outlay.

There are no 757-300s available for purchase anywhere in the world.

N
 
CO737800
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:00 pm

Why would they not want to go with the 757-200. You would think they would go with the 757-200 cause their so many of them.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:01 pm

They actually had a small number of -200s (4, IIRC) back around 1980,

Correct. 4 new builds from Boeing. Bought with the intent of commencing an LCC type pax operation from MDW which Fred Smith did not pursue. The 4 732C's were used on cargo flights for a short time until sold.

No new combis will be certified by the FAA is my guess and the general consensus here.

This could happen with more effective lobbying by Alaska Airlines and the WA Senators. Im confident it will happen in due course.

The 733 and 734...why don't they get some MD-80s?

The 733/734 can use the standard 721/722 container. The M80 cannot.

Personally, I think FedEx should purchase 757s, both the -200 and the -300.

Fedex and Boeing were talking about the 757 before the line was shut down but could not agree on prices. Also, I think the 752 is too close to the A310 and would still leave a big gap with the ATR72. The 733/734 is better positioned. One drawback though w the 733/734 is slower cruise speed.








I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
rockyracoon
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:01 pm

Another draw back of fedex going with md 80s would be the noise restrictions that they would have to correct in the near future.


peace
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:13 pm

With the 733/734 being mentioned, why is FedEx not considering new build 737-700C? These have the uprated thrust and stronger wing of the 738, have higher cruise and climb performance, and are more reliable. If FedEx is buying aircraft for long-term growth, these seem to make more sense than converted a 733 or 734.

And ASAIK Boeing hasn't ever mentioned a 737-900XC in public.
 
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yyz717
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:17 pm

With the 733/734 being mentioned, why is FedEx not considering new build 737-700C?

Simple economics. Passenger carriers use their 73G's up to 12 hours a day. The Fedex 721/722 fleet (and hence their replacement) are only used 3-5 hours/day on average. So, using older less reliable aircraft makes sense.


I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:38 pm

According to the memo FEDEX is still talking to Boeing about new 737-900's. I would have bought the 757 if it was up to me. But a Southwest style 737 cargo operation would be pretty cool. BTW, Back in 1980 when FEDEX had 4 737's they sold them and their options for a bunch of money.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
rockyracoon
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:48 pm

What's going to happen with all of the poor FE's?




 
cancidas
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 1:57 pm

they're in need of replacements for their -200C combis.

why do you say that? find me an aircraft of that size that is able to operate off of dirt and gravel strips. there is none, aside from maybe a 721. but see, a 721 has three engines for the 732's two.
"...cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home."
 
AirframeAS
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 2:00 pm

If FedEx is successful on doing 733 and 734 freighter/combi conversions, I'm sure AS would love to speak with them - they're in need of replacements for their -200C combis.

AS will never convert a 734 into a freighter or even think about obtaining a 734 freighter version. That would be dream, but it aint gonna ever happen. When I was with AS MX department I heard that AS has considered doing it to replace the -200C's possibly with the -700. AS then decided not to do it because its an MX issue and too much of a risk because most of the -200C's are already gravel kitted. AS also said that the -200C's ARE going to remain in the fleet for many many years to come. They have no plans to phase out the -200C's anytime soon.
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tjwgrr
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:09 pm

Federal Express 737:


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FutureCGNPilot
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:17 pm

I think TNT already converted a few 733 into freighters, with another 10 or so on option. I think they are quiet happy with its performance.
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:50 am

"I think TNT already converted a few 733 into freighters, with another 10 or so on option. I think they are quiet happy with its performance."

------------------------------------------------------

Yup....


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DIA
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:01 am

Did/Will FedEx not consider any A32X a/c?

Also, as someone mentioned above, what about FedEx's FEs? Will they be trained as FOs for the newer a/c?

Good to see that some 733s and 734s will have an extended lease on life.
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DeltaGuy
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:11 am

There are no 757-300s available for purchase anywhere in the world.
Uhhh, what about Boeing itself? I understand that negotiations for newbuilds didn't go over toooo well, but the 757 would have been a nice pick...abiet close to the A310's uses...

what about FedEx's FEs? Will they be trained as FOs for the newer a/c?
Yep, FedEx FE's aren't Professional FE's (i.e. only Flight Engineers)..they're pilots, hired onto the FE seat for their newhire...so they'll just go to whatever seat/ac that their senority can hold...don't worry, no furloughs  Smile

Can't wait to see it in Purple and White! Will these 733/734's be ones pulled outta Mojave, i.e. USAirways? Will be nice to see them cut the sky once again..

DeltaGuy  Smile
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solnabo
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:13 am

I rest my case!!!


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meister808
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:16 am

Very nice. Can't wait to see 'em smoking the mains at GFK.

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gigneil
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:20 am

Did/Will FedEx not consider any A32X a/c?

Well, here's the thing. Other Neil explained it, but I'll add additional detail.

EADS was planning to complete an STC for the 320F/321F this year, pending demand.

The problem is that 320/321s are the current generation of aircraft, they compete with the 737-800/-900. There aren't many parked, and the ones that are parked find good homes right away.

FedEx would want these by the hundred, so to accomodate that requirement, they'd have to buy them factory fresh from Airbus (probably green, then have them modified at EADS).

This would be good in the way new 737-700 freighters would be. They'd be modern, extremely reliable, more fuel efficient.

This wouldn't have the same economics as buying older used planes that are in low demand, even less reliable ones. The task of the domestic freight hauler is very different than the task of the domestic passenger carrier.

I think the stillborn acceptance of the 320 in FedEx's fleet will be of necessity. FedEx wants to start replacing the 721/722 now, and can't really afford to do it with brand new freighters. Therefore if they do need to widely expand capacity in the future with new build freighters, after the introduction of the 733/734, they'll do it with the 73G, 738, or 739.

N
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:26 am

More 737 news, One of the reasons FEDEX is going to buy the 737-300/400 is because they can buy "a" airlines whole fleet. Skipping the mis-match fleet problems like we have with the 727's ie some ex Braniff's some ex-Air Canada etc. etc. So the question now is what airline is going to sell all their 737's ??? USairways would be the best guess. UA ? CO ? WN ? AS ?
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
DIA
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:32 am

USAirways is a good guess. I'd also add in SWA as a possibility.

*Thanks for the detailed answer Neil.
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RyDawg82
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:45 am

"AS also said that the -200C's ARE going to remain in the fleet for many many years to come. They have no plans to phase out the -200C's anytime soon."
--- AS does have plan to phase out the 200s soon. Maybe not all at once, but 2-3 of them will depart the fleet by years end.

"AS will never convert a 734 into a freighter or even think about obtaining a 734 freighter version."
--- Interesting, there has been some reading material from a 737-300 combi leasing company floating around various workgroups in the past few months. Time will tell on this one, I'm not holding my breath that these would come online, or am I going to say AS will NEVER get a 737-300/400 (combi/fixed combi/etc).
-R
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L-188
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 7:56 am

No new combis will be certified by the FAA is my guess and the general consensus here.

This could happen with more effective lobbying by Alaska Airlines and the WA Senators. Im confident it will happen in due course.


The FAA has said they where willing to certifiy a fixed bulkhead aircraft, but that pretty much destroys any of the utility the airplane has. The movable bulkhead and convertable seats is the way to go.

Combi aircraft have been around for 50 years plus now, funny how in the past 5 they suddenly became, "unsafe".

Frankly I think the FAA has it's head up it's 5th point of contact on this one.
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yyz717
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:10 am

So the question now is what airline is going to sell all their 737's ??? USairways would be the best guess. UA ? CO ? WN ? AS ?

US is the best option as they have the 733 & 734. The other airlines don't.

I would bet Fedex would opt for the 733 first to repl the older 721 fleet. Then add the 734 at a later date. Much of the 722 fleet is relatively young & less in need of replacing.

I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
SQ25J
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:13 pm

I thought FDX would opt for 757, but it makes sense to bildup a fleet of 737-400/500's and then opt for larger+new -900's in the future. I am very surprised that they are only taking 25 on initial order. I thought they would try to pickup a 100, preferably from one source.
 
Korg747
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:31 pm

If possible...can some one provied us with what versions of the 727 does Fedex Operate now and what's their range?

thanks alot.

Please excuse my English!
 
DC10GUY
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:31 pm

Korg747, It would most likely be easier to list the 727 versions FEDEX don't operate. Our Valsan converted 727-200's have the best MPG. But our ex-AC -200's with aux tanks and can fly from MEM to South America non-stop. The bulk of our 160 727's are JT8D-15 powered -200's. And the range will very with payload.
Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
 
FDXmech
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:49 pm

Dc10guy,

I heard rumors the 737-400's are from Malaysian Airlines.
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AirframeAS
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 3:57 pm

Just trust me, AS is not getting any 733, 734 or 73G combis. They are not interested at this time. The 737-200Cs are here to stay. Cant say that any better than that, so just trust me on this one.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
RyDawg82
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:56 pm

I agree about the 733,734, 73G combis to a certain extent.

The combis are here to stay??? Hmm...Can you explain then why 743, 744, and 746 will be parked by years end? These birds are getting old, and AS is starting to phase them (or some of them anyway) out. This will not be a quick process but something will have to take their place at *some* point.

-R

[Edited 2004-03-11 13:10:35]
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
as739x
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:41 pm

AirframeAS is correct that we are keeping our 737-200V. We are though in fact retiring 2 of them this year. This was due to the change of service in Dutch Harbor now being provided by Pen Air. Now we can afford to retire 2 of them which I know includes a/c N745AS. The other -200C being shelved I have no idea.

Alaska is begining to also retire the 737-400 this year. Aircraft N754AS (The Spirit of Alaska our first -400) and N755AS will be retired this year. I don't know as what pace we can retire the -400 at with still increasing capacity though.
We have as of today 40 737-400 so if we can sell those to another company I'm all for it. Maybe FedEx will buy them and give us enough money to start rolling in the 737-800. Thats just my wish!

ASSFO
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RyDawg82
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:52 pm

Just heard 746 leaves us in two days (March 13). 743, 744 will go sometime soon. 745 would be nice to see gone, but I think we are stuck with her.

J where are you hearing this about 754 and 755??? News to me about the -400s going away. Am hearing now that no more MDs will leave this year either...

Hard to tell about anyting anymore..
First class me if you can/want....
-R
You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
 
gigneil
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:20 am

Uhhh, what about Boeing itself? I understand that negotiations for newbuilds didn't go over toooo well, but the 757 would have been a nice pick...abiet close to the A310's uses...


Boeing will be concluding the production of the 757, there are no new orders being taken.

The supply pipeline for an aircraft is long... many parts need to be forecasted 6 or 9 months in advance.

N
 
sllevin
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:21 pm

FedEx going to the 734 isn't surprising -- it's a good 727 replacement, and with the number of available airframes, new builds don't make as much sense.

I'm thinking ex-BA aircraft might just end up as with ex-US airframes as the starting point.

Steve
 
Russophile
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:30 pm

why do you say that? find me an aircraft of that size that is able to operate off of dirt and gravel strips. there is none, aside from maybe a 721. but see, a 721 has three engines for the 732's two.

*cough* *cough* -- look outside the box and you will clearly see there are aircraft aside from the 737-200/727-100 which could very well fulfilll that role. Just because they are Russian, doesn't mean that 'there is none'  Big grin

 
L-188
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RE: Fedex 737's Are Going To Happen Soon.

Fri Mar 12, 2004 6:37 pm

But the fact they aren't certified in the US is a killer.

Which is too bad, I think I could make some money up here with a couple of AN-74 freighters.
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